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#1
Okay the problem I am having with reading music is... The flat, double flat, and naturals. I know how to read a single note, but not on the spot. I have been learning music for a comple of months. Any advice?
#4
It's just practice. I'm at the same stage as you I think, where you know where the notes are on both the staff and your bass, but just don't click immediately to which note you should play.

You just need to practice to build up that link.
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#5
Practise, practise, practise.

I still have difficulties reading bass music as my brain has 9 years or treble clef reading behind it to 2 of bass.
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#7
Practice, practice. Did I say, practice?

After having read in Treble for a long time, it was a bit of shift to the bass clef. After a few months, I could read the notes with a level of competency. Now its the rhythm; once you get into complex 16th and 8th note combos, I still have to really work to read those well.

Keep at it, its like learning a foreign language, once day it will just click and be second nature to you.
#8
I hate to be "that guy," but if one more person spells "practice" wrong, I'm going to punch some nuns in the face.

Anyway, it takes quite a while to learn stuff like notation. I actually spent two years learning treble clef, then I learned bass clef and it still took me a good year to be able to read it well. Just be patient.
#9
We just had this discussion in chat. Practice is acceptable in all situations in the U.S.A. but, proper grammar dictates that when practise is used as a verb it is spelt with an s. The band is having a practice; noun. The band is practising; verb.
#11
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
We just had this discussion in chat. Practice is acceptable in all situations in the U.S.A. but, proper grammar dictates that when practise is used as a verb it is spelt with an s. The band is having a practice; noun. The band is practising; verb.


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#15
Learn where the notes are on the clef so well that when you see them you can name the notes instantaneously, do the same for your bass, then learn the possible positions for each note on the stave and put the two skills together.
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#16
A natural cancels out any preceding flats in a bar/key signature. A flat is a natural, but a semitone lower. A double flat is a flattened note, but another semitone lower. Double flats aren't used often, even in classical music.
#17
Double flats are generally used over a dim7 chord since the formula is 1 b3 b5 bb7, so they'd notate it over that. If you want to find out what stuff means read the sticky at the top on notation.
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#18
Quote by sinan90
Double flats are generally used over a dim7 chord since the formula is 1 b3 b5 bb7, so they'd notate it over that.


No, they're not.
They're only ever correctly used to save rewriting flats and naturals again and again.
#19
Quote by National_Anthem
No, they're not.
They're only ever correctly used to save rewriting flats and naturals again and again.


There's more than one situation where double flats arise, but to write a note as A instead of Bbb over a Cdim7 chord would show a lack of understanding of where the chord comes from.
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#20
Quote by National_Anthem
No, they're not.
They're only ever correctly used to save rewriting flats and naturals again and again.


You're denying their use in diminished chords?
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#21
Quote by sinan90
There's more than one situation where double flats arise, but to write a note as A instead of Bbb over a Cdim7 chord would show a lack of understanding of where the chord comes from.


C-Eb-F#-A

Those are the notes in a Cdim7. All of the intervals in a diminished 7th chord must be minor thirds, F# to Bbb is a double-diminished fourth. Bbb and A are also completely different notes, Bbb is very slightly flatter than A when not using a tempered tuning.
#22
Quote by Confused4930
You're denying their use in diminished chords?


It depends on the situation, the harmonic function of a chord etc. etc. But yes, in the way Sinan90 is describing.
#23
The minor third of Eb is Gb is it not? F# would be the #2.
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#24
Quote by sinan90
The minor third of Eb is Gb is it not? F# would be the #2.


F natural would be #2. Please don't dispute with me on harmony and theory, I've been studying it for 10 years now, I know it sounds big headed and all, but just trust me on this.
#25
Okay here a question...

Okay heres a bar

all b's have a flat
Four/four beat
Its a measure

1st note------- A
2nd note------ A
3rd Note------- B flat
4th note------- B

Would the 4th note be a flat too?
#26
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
We just had this discussion in chat. Practice is acceptable in all situations in the U.S.A. but, proper grammar dictates that when practise is used as a verb it is spelt with an s. The band is having a practice; noun. The band is practising; verb.


Yes, we Yanks phail at the Kings English. Maybe we should spend less time talking / writing and more time practising our instruments.
#27
What helped me out at first was writing out the names of the notes under them (or over them, depending on where there's space) and memorizing where the notes are on the fretboard first. Then, over time, I just got used to reading in bass clef and can pretty much sight read on the spot.
#28
Quote by National_Anthem
F natural would be #2. Please don't dispute with me on harmony and theory, I've been studying it for 10 years now, I know it sounds big headed and all, but just trust me on this.



The major scale of Eb is Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb. The 2 is F hence F# is the #2, how is F natural the #2 of Eb?
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#29
pactise, im learning theory at the moment aswell ( about 4 months) and my guitar teacher is making me learn bass . treble at the same time.
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#30
Quote by National_Anthem
F natural would be #2. Please don't dispute with me on harmony and theory, I've been studying it for 10 years now, I know it sounds big headed and all, but just trust me on this.


Technically if you wanted to be enharmonically ambiguous then you could be correct. But, if you're looking at the actual functions of the notes it should be Gb as well as Bbb not A. Also F# is the Augmented Second. F natural is just the Major Second.

Quote by system_cky
Okay here a question...

Okay heres a bar

all b's have a flat
Four/four beat
Its a measure

1st note------- A
2nd note------ A
3rd Note------- B flat
4th note------- B

Would the 4th note be a flat too?


Yes a flat is distributed in the entire bar. If a Bb is in the key signature though then there shouldn't even be an accidental in the bar... Unless it's a courtesy accidental and the prior bar had a B natural.
#31
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Yes a flat is distributed in the entire bar. If a Bb is in the key signature though then there shouldn't even be an accidental in the bar... Unless it's a courtesy accidental and the prior bar had a B natural.


Yep, did the bar before that have a B marked as B natural?
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#32
Quote by sinan90
The major scale of Eb is Eb F G Ab Bb C D Eb. The 2 is F hence F# is the #2, how is F natural the #2 of Eb?


Sorry, I thought you were using the # as a number symbol, rather than a sharp sign. My bad. But I don't see what that proves.

And I just realised I had a major dumb moment, yes, a Cdim7 would be C-Eb-Gb-Bbb, in a perfect, hypothetical world, but, say if you were using Cdim7 in G minor, it would be "spelt" C-Eb-F#-A. That way, it saves all of the accidentals. I'm still trying to think of an actual plausible application of a Cdim7 when you would spell is C-Eb-Gb-Bbb. It is also worth noting that a C-Eb-F#-A chord would be just a different inversion of an F#-A-C-Eb diminished 7th chord.

Quote by jazz_rock_feel


Technically if you wanted to be enharmonically ambiguous then you could be correct. But, if you're looking at the actual functions of the notes it should be Gb as well as Bbb not A. Also F# is the Augmented Second. F natural is just the Major Second.


Read what I just said, that should make it clear. And tuning is enharmonically ambigous, that's why an open E chord sounds out of tune when you tune your guitar "perfectly". Only in tempered tunings does Gb=F#, and frankly, who would use a tempered tuning if they could sound better in an untempered tuning?
#33
Quote by National_Anthem
Sorry, I thought you were using the # as a number symbol, rather than a sharp sign. My bad. But I don't see what that proves.


It proves that no matter how much you know you can make mistakes

And I just realised I had a major dumb moment, yes, a Cdim7 would be C-Eb-Gb-Bbb, in a perfect, hypothetical world, but, say if you were using Cdim7 in G minor, it would be "spelt" C-Eb-F#-A. That way, it saves all of the accidentals. I'm still trying to think of an actual plausible application of a Cdim7 when you would spell is C-Eb-Gb-Bbb. It is also worth noting that a C-Eb-F#-A chord would be just a different inversion of an F#-A-C-Eb diminished 7th chord.


I think how it is spelt would depend upon the overall context of what was going on. And writing it as C-Eb-F#-A wouldn't save all the accidentals, you need a # for the F.

Read what I just said, that should make it clear. And tuning is enharmonically ambigous, that's why an open E chord sounds out of tune when you tune your guitar "perfectly". Only in tempered tunings does Gb=F#, and frankly, who would use a tempered tuning if they could sound better in an untempered tuning?


A person who is playing in a band where all the instruments are tuned in the same certain temperament, then that person would sound out of tune.
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#34
We weren't really talking about tuning were we? We were more talking theoretically in which case it's a Bbb. In practical usage it would, like Sinan said, depend on the situation. But strictly theoretically Bbb is correct for a Cdim7.
#35
Quote by sinan90

I think how it is spelt would depend upon the overall context of what was going on. And writing it as C-Eb-F#-A wouldn't save all the accidentals, you need a # for the F.


Yes it would, the leading tone is normally raised, sure there are many cases where it is natural, but players pretty much expect raised leading tones


A person who is playing in a band where all the instruments are tuned in the same certain temperament, then that person would sound out of tune.


If I'm playing chords, then I will tune the guitar slightly differently, A minor and E major chords particularly sound bad if you tune your guitar using the 5th fret method religously.
#36
The leading depends upon which minor you base the song of does it not? I generally only have the leading tone for the dominant chord V-i sounds way nicer than v-i.

Pfffft 5th fret method for n00bs, I'm a harmonics tuner.
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[22:08:23] <Confusius> I wish I was a bassist
[22:08:26] <Confusius> you fuckers look cool


Want to know how to play bass in jazz? Read this.
#37
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
We weren't really talking about tuning were we? We were more talking theoretically in which case it's a Bbb. In practical usage it would, like Sinan said, depend on the situation. But strictly theoretically Bbb is correct for a Cdim7.


As I said, I'd pick a different inversion, like a second inversion F# dim7 chord in most keys - an F# is diatonic in a lot more keys than Gb or Bbb is. The second inversion F# dim7 could also be called a C Augmented 6th chord, which resolves outwards, as opposed to a diminished 7th resolving inwards.
#38
Quote by sinan90
The leading depends upon which minor you base the song of does it not? I generally only have the leading tone for the dominant chord V-i sounds way nicer than v-i.

Pfffft 5th fret method for n00bs, I'm a harmonics tuner.


Tuning by ear is where it's at. You can just play open strings and tune that way.
I was talking about G minor, that was the example I was using, but that's just for the sake of simplicity. And you can easily modulate to G minor from Bb major, D minor, C minor, and a few other keys, diminished 7th chords are after all, a useful tool for modulation.
#39
Dont bitch guys.... soprano, alto and tenor clefs get your head ****ed.

I love bass clef. I would scan you my bass clef exercises from my elementary musicianship class if that would help you.

I had this korean chick who would give us 100 notes in bass flef and we had to label them (do re mi etc.) under 4 minutes. We had to write all the mayor scales WITH and WITHOUT accidentals (one with key sig and other with accidentals next to the note) in 10 minutes.

All i gotta say is thank you. That was the only way to really learn them.

good luck bro.
#40
Learn all of the clefs, don't limit yourself to one. You should learn treble, soprano, alto, tenor, baritone, bass etc. and then other variants of those.
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