Page 1 of 4
#1
Right, I am getting sick to death of people asking for a blues guitar which can also get heavy, and the moment anyone suggests a Fat Strat (that's one with a bridge humbucker, to the uninitiated), about 50 bazillion Strat Fanbois turn up to say how a fat strat is "not right", "loses the identity/tone of a real strat", "not the real thing", "an abomination/tragedy somewhere between the holocaust and the black death".

Right, let's face facts.

1) IF THE POSTER WANTS HEAVY TONES, ASSUMING HE/SHE HAS THE CORRECT AMP, A BRIDGE HUMBUCKER IS THE BEST WAY TO GET THERE. Learn to step into someone else's shoes.

2) How many blues tones use the strat's bridge humbucker? The general consensus is that the neck pickup is the strat's ace in the hole. In fact many otherwise strat fans constantly complain that the strat bridge pickup sounds thin. You're only really losing the in-between tone of the strat bridge and middle- and the neck/middle tone is similar.

3) Eddie van Halen used a fat strat and had one of the best tones ever.

4) If you play hard rock and metal, you probably aren't too concerned with maintaining the integrity of the strat's bell-like clean tones and sublime in-between tones anyway. again, learn to step into someone else's shoes. The benefits of the bridge humbucker will far outweigh any losses, basically.


Finally, for all you self-appointed strat gods who think it's only a strat if it has 3 single coils, with nary a humbucker in sight, you gotta ask yourself: does your strat have all this?

1) 21 frets.

2) vintage fingerboard radius.

3) narrow/small frets.

4) non-reverse wound middle pickup.

5) hand-wound pickups.

6) vintage 6-screw vibrato (none of that 2 studs guff).

7) one-piece maple neck.

8) 3-way pickup selector (that's right, none of this 5-way guff).

9) true single coils- none of this noiseless jazz.

EDIT: 10) nitrocellulose lacquer (and not over a poly base coat, genuine 100% nitrocellulose lacquer)

11) vintage accurate wire, capacitors and pots.

?

Because no offence, but it's not a REAL strat if it doesn't have all of those.



Had to be said.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 30, 2007,
#2
i have 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, and 11. i'm about to get 10 along with more precise 2 and 3 with my new neck. yay.

but what you said were right on the money.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
Last edited by ECistheBest at Sep 29, 2007,
#3
Good thread this and raises loads of great points.

I love my SSS strat. I sometimes wouldn't mind a H-SS strat, but hey. I could always bung a hot rail in there, and besides, I use the 4th pick up select option quite alot especially for jazzy cleans with not too much bass (thats using the mid and bridge).

It's all opinion, there is no "best" guitar or strat, all things work well in different situations.

Kudos.
#4
chill
The Gear:

Custom Strat
Mesa Boogie Stiletto Ace
Fulltone OCD
Electro Harmonix Small Clone Chorus
Dunlop Crybaby Classic
MXR EVH-117 Flanger
Fulltone Soul Bender
#5
This is the Electric guitar thread man. Used to ask questions and gain information. What your doing right now is a rant that doesn't belong here. Take it to the Pit.
Be cool.
#6
(to EC)

to be honest, it's tongue in cheek. With several of those you're just biting off your nose to spite your face. Much like not getting a bridge humbucker if you play hard rock and metal. I'm just trying to show the fallacy of it. There'll always be someone who has a more "vintage accurate" one.

Oh, and I forgot nitrocellulose lacquer. better add that in.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Sep 29, 2007,
#7
First of all, I disagree!

I find the bridge single to be way more versatile than the bridge bucker. The answer lies in the pots, quite frankly. If the pots are 250's, the bridge bucker will never get a truly m3t41 t0n3 lawls! So, change the pots to 500's! Problem solved woo! Wrong, the 500's steal away from the natural strat warmth, which you'll never achieve.

So, my point is, you won't get both. It would be better to get an SSS strat, and some Ibanez or a Les Paul for the metal. The guitar just isn't meant for it.
FOR AWESOME HANDWOUND PICKUPS, CONTACT CorduroyEW
BOOBS
Quote by ratmblink123
Good for you. Have a cookie.


But really... there's no cookie. And if there was, you wouldn't get one.
#10
Quote by Dark Aegis
I agree with you, I dont even want to play a strat without a humbucker.

wait... is that really what you meant?
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#11
Quote by thedude051
This is the Electric guitar thread man. Used to ask questions and gain information. What your doing right now is a rant that doesn't belong here. Take it to the Pit.


dude, i have about 50% of the posts in this darn forum helping people. Plus I used to mod it. i think i'm entitled to a little slack. especially when I'm bringing up what I believe to be good points which affect some of the (bad IMO) advice which is constantly given.

Quote by CORT noob
First of all, I disagree!

I find the bridge single to be way more versatile than the bridge bucker. The answer lies in the pots, quite frankly. If the pots are 250's, the bridge bucker will never get a truly m3t41 t0n3 lawls! So, change the pots to 500's! Problem solved woo! Wrong, the 500's steal away from the natural strat warmth, which you'll never achieve.

So, my point is, you won't get both. It would be better to get an SSS strat, and some Ibanez or a Les Paul for the metal. The guitar just isn't meant for it.


strat has 2 tone knobs. wire one to a 500k for the bridge, and the other to a 250 for the singles. unless you need a separate tone setting for both neck and middle, problem solved.

an ibanez basically is a strat. and a les paul isn't always tight enough. and has a different feel/tone.

don't get me wrong. I love SSS strats. But I also like strats with a humbucker. Superstrats are awesome if you ask me, as are strats. It's all good. But this blinkered mentality really annoys me. "It's not right unless you do it the way I say!"



I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#12
Nice one Dave Mc, so far, it seems everything i have asked you youve helped with, so pretty much only way to appreciate my thanks is

:massive sweaty nude hug:
#14
^^ o_O



^
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#15
Quote by thedude051
This is the Electric guitar thread man. Used to ask questions and gain information. What your doing right now is a rant that doesn't belong here. Take it to the Pit.


He used to mod this place. He can do this.

EDIT: Dammit

EDIT2: Ippon.
Ben
#16
Quote by Dave_Mc
dude, i have about 50% of the posts in this darn forum helping people. Plus I used to mod it. i think i'm entitled to a little slack. especially when I'm bringing up what I believe to be good points which affect some of the (bad IMO) advice which is constantly given.


strat has 2 tone knobs. wire one to a 500k for the bridge, and the other to a 250 for the singles. unless you need a separate tone setting for both neck and middle, problem solved.

an ibanez basically is a strat. and a les paul isn't always tight enough. and has a different feel/tone.

don't get me wrong. I love SSS strats. But I also like strats with a humbucker. Superstrats are awesome if you ask me, as are strats. It's all good. But this blinkered mentality really annoys me. "It's not right unless you do it the way I say!"






I'd much rather just install a Series/Parallel switch for the bucker tones, because in all the fat strats I've played, the Bucker sounded exactly like the middle position. You could never get that really bright strat sound, so thus degrading versatility in my opinion.
FOR AWESOME HANDWOUND PICKUPS, CONTACT CorduroyEW
BOOBS
Quote by ratmblink123
Good for you. Have a cookie.


But really... there's no cookie. And if there was, you wouldn't get one.
#17
Quote by CORT noob


I'd much rather just install a Series/Parallel switch for the bucker tones, because in all the fat strats I've played, the Bucker sounded exactly like the middle position. You could never get that really bright strat sound, so thus degrading versatility in my opinion.


yeah, parallel is a good call. it doesn't sound exactly like a single either (i'd actually prefer a push-push or push-pull coil split to split the bucker on its own with the selector at the bridge position), but it's definitely a usable tone. bit less gain, bit sparklier, kinda mid-way between a humbucker and single.

some people would say that on an SSS strat you could also wire the bridge and middle in series. That would also be worth considering, but again i don't think that sounds like a true bucker. It sounds more like a beefier position 4 (or is that 2? I can never remember which way round that is- bridge + middle, i mean). It'd be a good idea if you know you have to have an SSS strat, and want the option of a slightly beefier tone, but if you know you need that beefier bridge tone most of the time, i'd still prefer a humbucker.



and muffinman.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
I meant the series/parallel for positions 2 and 4. But, either way, this argument comes down to opinion.
FOR AWESOME HANDWOUND PICKUPS, CONTACT CorduroyEW
BOOBS
Quote by ratmblink123
Good for you. Have a cookie.


But really... there's no cookie. And if there was, you wouldn't get one.
#21
^ wow did someone set that on fire?

Quote by CORT noob
I meant the series/parallel for positions 2 and 4. But, either way, this argument comes down to opinion.


yep, it does. but there aren't very many metal players using SSS strats exclusively, and yet i've seen threads where people recommended AGAINST a fat strat for someone who wanted metal tones...


Quote by FRDesign
If I wanted Humbuckers I would buy an Ibanez.


assuming you mean an RG, that's basically a glorified double fat strat. I fail to see much difference.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
what i mean is, if you're going to argue against the general consensus, fine. But you better have a darn good reason- and in my book "Oh Noes, it's not a real strat with a humbucker!" isn't a darn good reason.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#23
Quality post - when people ask for advice they want to know what's best for them, not simply what other people like.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#24
cheers, i was hoping you'd see this mark.

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by Dave_Mc
Right, I am getting sick to death of people asking for a blues guitar which can also get heavy, and the moment anyone suggests a Fat Strat (that's one with a bridge humbucker, to the uninitiated), about 50 bazillion Strat Fanbois turn up to say how a fat strat is "not right", "loses the identity/tone of a real strat", "not the real thing", "an abomination/tragedy somewhere between the holocaust and the black death".

Right, let's face facts.

1) IF THE POSTER WANTS HEAVY TONES, ASSUMING HE/SHE HAS THE CORRECT AMP, A BRIDGE HUMBUCKER IS THE BEST WAY TO GET THERE. Learn to step into someone else's shoes.

2) How many blues tones use the strat's bridge humbucker? The general consensus is that the neck pickup is the strat's ace in the hole. In fact many otherwise strat fans constantly complain that the strat bridge pickup sounds thin. You're only really losing the in-between tone of the strat bridge and middle- and the neck/middle tone is similar.

3) Eddie van Halen used a fat strat and had one of the best tones ever.

4) If you play hard rock and metal, you probably aren't too concerned with maintaining the integrity of the strat's bell-like clean tones and sublime in-between tones anyway. again, learn to step into someone else's shoes. The benefits of the bridge humbucker will far outweigh any losses, basically.


Finally, for all you self-appointed strat gods who think it's only a strat if it has 3 single coils, with nary a humbucker in sight, you gotta ask yourself: does your strat have all this?

1) 21 frets.

2) vintage fingerboard radius.

3) narrow/small frets.

4) non-reverse wound middle pickup.

5) hand-wound pickups.

6) vintage 6-screw vibrato (none of that 2 studs guff).

7) one-piece maple neck.

8) 3-way pickup selector (that's right, none of this 5-way guff).

9) true single coils- none of this noiseless jazz.

10) v-shape neck.

EDIT: 11) nitrocellulose lacquer (and not over a poly base coat, genuine 100% nitrocellulose lacquer)

12) vintage accurate wire, capacitors and pots.

?

Because no offence, but it's not a REAL strat if it doesn't have all of those.



Had to be said.




PWNT
#26
Quote by FRDesign
If I wanted Humbuckers I would buy an Ibanez.



if you wanted a locking trem you'd get an ibanez?
if you wanted single coils woud get a fender?
if you wanted to play classic rock you'd get a marshall?
if you wanted to play slayer, you'd get a bc rich or esp?
if you wanted a les paul, you'd get a gibson?


if you wanted to make a valid post, you failed.
#27
Quote by godofshred
if you wanted a locking trem you'd get an ibanez?
locking trems aren't for me.
if you wanted single coils woud get a fender?
ya
if you wanted to play classic rock you'd get a marshall?
i'd like to. a good marshall that is.
if you wanted to play slayer, you'd get a bc rich or esp?
ew no.
if you wanted a les paul, you'd get a gibson?
That would be nice if a good one came in budget.


if you wanted to make a valid post, you failed.

yea. true. it was a biased post.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#29
Quote by ECistheBest
11


Fender doesnt put nitro on mexi standards or american standards. They only really have them on the american vintage reissue series (and the hwy1's but i dont think thats real nitro) i think.
Gear:
1965 Fender Mustang not a RI
Squier Vintage Modified Jazz Bass

Peavey Classic 50
Avatar 2x12

Profile
#30
^lol. it was a fun post to quote with answers. so i did. but ur right. if i wanted a humbucker, i'd get a les paul of some sort.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#31
Quote by SublimeGuitar
Fender doesnt put nitro on mexi standards or american standards. They only really have them on the american vintage reissue series (and the hwy1's but i dont think thats real nitro) i think.

either i meant 12, or dave edited the vintage wire to 12. but i don't have nitro. i have the vintage spec push-back cloth wire thing.
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


Source to everything I say about Guitars, Pedals, and Amplifiers: I make them.


UG's Best DIY PedalBoard
#33
A true Strat to me is whatever I need it to be at the moment. How can you not? The frame is ideal for various pickup and component combos. Single coils, humbuckers, floyds, hard tails, whatever...it's all good. I've met several that prefer a mix and match on the values on their pots. One guitar I set up had a 250 on the neck and a 500 on the bridge (single coils) and a 1M volume control. The guitar sounded great to me. I think people get too caught up in the hype and voodoo surrounding "vintage" instruments. I love my 63 reissue, but my next strat is going to have a Duncan Pearly Gates in the bridge and DiMarzio Cruisers in the neck and middle.
#34
Quote by godofshred
if you wanted a locking trem you'd get an ibanez? yes
if you wanted single coils woud get a fender? yes
if you wanted to play classic rock you'd get a marshall? if it was tube
if you wanted to play slayer, you'd get a bc rich or esp? an ESP
if you wanted a les paul, you'd get a gibson? yes


if you wanted to make a valid post, you failed.

I meant in a Strat/Super Strat type guitar.
#35
first of all, i think that dave's upset because he's been dodging car bombs all afternoon.

:0


secondly, i think if a guy wants a versatile, intermediate trem guitar, and he lives in the US where he can pick one up for $400. a fender fat strat is a good choice.

omg! swapping out the humbucker later as you grow as a player, is so impos.... oh wait, no. it's really simple.

get a guitar that suits you needs, and dont let an elitist talk you out of it. you can always swap it out later.

i've had my MIM since 95' for cryin out loud.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A/GB&C WTLT Lists 2011
#36
first of all, i think that dave's upset because he's been dodging car bombs all afternoon.


Nah...some kids have just been after his lucky charms
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#37
Damn. I have one of those fake Strats. I'm throwing it away right now. Maybe I'll sacrifice it (like Jimi.) I don't want to live anymore. Oh, the humiliation.
#38
You've cracked him guys...
"A wise man once said, never discuss philosophy or politics in a disco environment." - Frank Zappa
Quote by Jinskee
Don't question the X.
<Frenchy> I'm such a failure
#39
Quote by Dave_Mc
yep, it does. but there aren't very many metal players using SSS strats exclusively, and yet i've seen threads where people recommended AGAINST a fat strat for someone who wanted metal tones...

In my opinion, the singles will do metal just as good, if not better than the Fat strat. As long as you are sheilded well, you'll have that strat clarity in soloes. Seriously, the reason I'm against the Fat strat is I don't see a reason. People glorify humbuckers as these godly things for some reason, when they barely have more capability than a nice single.
FOR AWESOME HANDWOUND PICKUPS, CONTACT CorduroyEW
BOOBS
Quote by ratmblink123
Good for you. Have a cookie.


But really... there's no cookie. And if there was, you wouldn't get one.
#40


As a strat lover that plays primarily metal, I completely see where your coming from. I mean, wasn't the whole idea of the strat to have all the parts easily replaceable and exchangeable?

Honestly, the only thing I don't like about strats are the pickups, and only then because they aren't the best for metal, but they're amazing for blues and rock. I love the fretboard radius (I can't play as comfortably with any radius above 13 for some reason.), the neck, the pickup options, the control locations, the body contours, the body woods. I could go on for a while. and I doubt that you will ever see a guitar geared towards metal (that isn't a strat) with a 9.5' fretboard radius, so we have to customize the guitar to get the feel of a strat and a more desirable tone for certain genres.

Quote by CORT noob
In my opinion, the singles will do metal just as good, if not better than the Fat strat. As long as you are sheilded well, you'll have that strat clarity in soloes. Seriously, the reason I'm against the Fat strat is I don't see a reason. People glorify humbuckers as these godly things for some reason, when they barely have more capability than a nice single.

Singles tend to mud up in high gain situations and they will never get near the bottom end that humbuckers have. I still use mine in moderate gain (still metal territory) for solos and the such with great results, but I can't see them doing the best for rhythm work.
Last edited by Zofar at Sep 30, 2007,
Page 1 of 4