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#1
Well, my opinions on the matter have varied throughout the years, but what do you guys think about (obviously I don't mean Progressive bands) but what about sweep picking in Death Metal (see: Children of Bodom; Arch Enemy) I haven't really heard any sweeping in much Black Metal that's not local underground bands, but in Power Metal (see: Sonata Arctica) or in Thrash Metal (see: Metallica, Megadeth, Testament)

In my opinion, songs can be wrecked by a guitarist's yearning to play fast, no matter what it does to the music. I was listening to my friend play some death riff that he wrote, then out of nowhere he just starts pulling sweeps all over the place, and it just sounded wrong.

What do you guys think? Am I just tone deaf? Discuss.
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#2
It all depends on how you use them. It has to flow with the song and not be over used. People who use sweep picking need to learn to use them with substance not just to play fast.
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#3
it can sound brilliant.

like Suicmez can really perfect sweeping and death metal, but some times it can sound forced.

Its better than beating the **** out of the whammy bar for sure though.
Quote by IbanezSA160a
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Black/Folk Metal
#4
Quote by 11thHour
it can sound brilliant.

like Suicmez can really perfect sweeping and death metal, but some times it can sound forced.

Its better than beating the **** out of the whammy bar for sure though.


Thats a total contradiction. Any technique sounds good if it is done well, fits with the context of the song, and is not overused.
Quote by XxLloydxX
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#6
I love sweep picking. Listen to Days of Perversion or Necrophagist to hear how it's done properly.
#7
imo, most people I hear use sweeps at the wrong time. They are really awesome when you incorporate them correctly, like Jason Becker does. But then again there are a lot of people that sweep just to sweep, like yngwie.

Muhammed also has his moments of brilliance, but sometimes his sweeps don't feet at all imo. Jani from SA did some some pretty cool sweeps in 8th commandment, and Jari (wintersun) pulls off some pretty cool stuff too. But there's also a lot of like Tech Death bands that sweep just to make a song technical, instead of doing it to expand on a melody or theme.
#8
sweeping can be incredibly cool if it fits with the song but it is often over used by people just want to show off that they can play extremely fast but they forget that sometimes it's best to play something simple rather then shredding the hell out of your guitar.
#9
Quote by monkey_dancer
Thats a total contradiction. Any technique sounds good if it is done well, fits with the context of the song, and is not overused.



Exactly.

Theres so many things you can do with sweeping. You cant just say whether it fits a genre or not.
Quote by IbanezSA160a
Ug's Drunken Irishman prevails over existence once again +All UG'S Point to you my drunken irish friend.

Black/Folk Metal
#11
Sweep picking? Can there be too much? Not really, but it can be misused. I'd like to point to the album Hatebreeder as an example. Bed of Razors is a truly awesome piece of work: it is well structured, catchy, coherent (as coherent as CoB gets, anyway), and technical in all the right places. Many of the other tracks, however, lack similar organization, and seem to me to be Alexi shredding (quite well) around pieces of ill constructed/unfinished songs.
Every time you sit down to "practice" without a metronome, God kills a kitten.
#12
Quote by DIMEinOURheart
It all depends on how you use them. It has to flow with the song and not be over used. People who use sweep picking need to learn to use them with substance not just to play fast.


You talk like there's a rule on how to use sweeps and that's just bs. And the whole point to sweep picking IS to play fast, hence the sweep part.

Ihsahn(Emperor) sweeps right before the verse in The Eruption.
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
#13
Quote by Mongochromat
You talk like there's a rule on how to use sweeps and that's just bs. And the whole point to sweep picking IS to play fast, hence the sweep part.

Ihsahn(Emperor) sweeps right before the verse in The Eruption.


No, he was quite right in what he said. There's no rule. He was simply saying that it can be done tastefully and untastefully. The point of sweep picking is to purvey a certain desired mood/tone, not necessarily to play fast. You're the one that's saying there's a rule to sweep picking now, so you kind of contradicted yourself there.
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#14
Quote by Contraband
No, he was quite right in what he said. There's no rule. He was simply saying that it can be done tastefully and untastefully. The point of sweep picking is to purvey a certain desired mood/tone, not necessarily to play fast. You're the one that's saying there's a rule to sweep picking now, so you kind of contradicted yourself there.


Unless there is a correct answer to what's tastefull or not, no he is not right.

And how am I contradicting myself? By saying that sweep is a technique developed for playing arpeggios(or whater) fast? WELL THAT IS THE POINT.
Of course you can sweep "slow", but what's the point when you can just alternate pick anyway
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
#15
Quote by Mongochromat
Unless there is a correct answer to what's tastefull or not, no he is not right.

And how am I contradicting myself? By saying that sweep is a technique developed for playing arpeggios(or whater) fast? WELL THAT IS THE POINT.
Of course you can sweep "slow", but what's the point when you can just alternate pick anyway



Why the hell would you alternate pick an Arpeggio, if you can just do it sweeped? Itll save your hand some work, therefore letting you play longer, and if needed, you can always speed it up or slow it down without fail. Sweeping wasn't meant to be fast, it was just meant to be a technique that helps you play across the strings. Alternate picking isn't supposed to be just for speed either, its just a technique to help you reach more notes, and thats basically what all techniques do, besides the decorational ones like tremolo picking and bending. Its just to help you reach the notes, fast OR slow, that you want to play.

I dont know what this nonsense is about sweeping meaning you have to do it fast.
#17
Quote by Firenze
Well, my opinions on the matter have varied throughout the years, but what do you guys think about (obviously I don't mean Progressive bands) but what about sweep picking in Death Metal (see: Children of Bodom; Arch Enemy) I haven't really heard any sweeping in much Black Metal that's not local underground bands, but in Power Metal (see: Sonata Arctica) or in Thrash Metal (see: Metallica, Megadeth, Testament)

In my opinion, songs can be wrecked by a guitarist's yearning to play fast, no matter what it does to the music. I was listening to my friend play some death riff that he wrote, then out of nowhere he just starts pulling sweeps all over the place, and it just sounded wrong.

What do you guys think? Am I just tone deaf? Discuss.


Thats just the guitar player's inability to piece things together correctly, but then again it could also be your tastes, since tons of people would have probably found that very awesome, and you listed Children of Bodom as death metal so I don't think you have seen too much anyways.

Also keep in mind that with a background guitar, bass, drums, and whatever else, it could have very well been a sick transition, but if he played only the guitar it would have sounded sudden.
#18
Quote by insideac
Why the hell would you alternate pick an Arpeggio, if you can just do it sweeped? Itll save your hand some work, therefore letting you play longer, and if needed, you can always speed it up or slow it down without fail. Sweeping wasn't meant to be fast, it was just meant to be a technique that helps you play across the strings. Alternate picking isn't supposed to be just for speed either, its just a technique to help you reach more notes, and thats basically what all techniques do, besides the decorational ones like tremolo picking and bending. Its just to help you reach the notes, fast OR slow, that you want to play.

I dont know what this nonsense is about sweeping meaning you have to do it fast.



Hate to disagree with you Insideac, but alternate picking arpeggios yields a different sound. Here is proof...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V7o8mEbgBCc
The part at around 1:57 is where god goes crazy.
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#19
Quote by insideac
Why the hell would you alternate pick an Arpeggio, if you can just do it sweeped? Itll save your hand some work, therefore letting you play longer, and if needed, you can always speed it up or slow it down without fail. Sweeping wasn't meant to be fast, it was just meant to be a technique that helps you play across the strings. Alternate picking isn't supposed to be just for speed either, its just a technique to help you reach more notes, and thats basically what all techniques do, besides the decorational ones like tremolo picking and bending. Its just to help you reach the notes, fast OR slow, that you want to play.

I dont know what this nonsense is about sweeping meaning you have to do it fast.


Because sweep picking at low speeds makes it sound really stacc. Especially when you are doing it clean. And you have more controll when you alternate pick patterns. The whole idea of sweep picking is to keep a constant motion with your pick, and a constant motion like that in low speeds just doesn't sound as good as when you do it fast. I didn't say you have to do it fast either, but you simply can't deny the fact that sweep picking is a technique used to play arpeggios faster than you can alternate pick them.
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
#20
Quote by insideac
Thats just the guitar player's inability to piece things together correctly, but then again it could also be your tastes, since tons of people would have probably found that very awesome, and you listed Children of Bodom as death metal so I don't think you have seen too much anyways.

Also keep in mind that with a background guitar, bass, drums, and whatever else, it could have very well been a sick transition, but if he played only the guitar it would have sounded sudden.


I'm fairly certain it is indeed my tastes, but it just seems kind of shifty when it's not pulled off right. Sounding good > not sounding good. And I was referring to old Bodom, i.e. Follow the Reaper Bodom, or Hate Crew Bodom. Melodic Death Metal, I'd certainly call it.

Well, it could have been, but I doubt it would have. It was like *slow, melodic tune...SWEEP (that was in the wrong key as well)...back to melodic...SWEEP* etc...
Catch me,
heal me,
Lift me back up to the Sun
I choose to live
#21
Quote by The Virtuoso
Hate to disagree with you Insideac, but alternate picking arpeggios yields a different sound. Here is proof...

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=V7o8mEbgBCc
The part at around 1:57 is where god goes crazy.



Thats a terrible example because that can't be sweeped anyways. Im talking about 3 strings+ arpeggios, not 2 strings. Otherwise, yes here is another example of arpeggios being alternate picked
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4qhD8BOk0&mode=related&search=
The solo, 2:21

Itd be pretty weird to do a Bmin shape across 5 strings while alternate picking.

And Mongo, maybe it sounds Staccatto to you, but it really shouldn't sound like crap if you sweep at slow speeds. You just have to control your hands, and you can get rid of the staccatto sound by holding down the note for the entire time, instead of quickly taking it off and moving to the next one
#23
Quote by insideac
Thats a terrible example because that can't be sweeped anyways. Im talking about 3 strings+ arpeggios, not 2 strings. Otherwise, yes here is another example of arpeggios being alternate picked
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4qhD8BOk0&mode=related&search=
The solo, 2:21

Itd be pretty weird to do a Bmin shape across 5 strings while alternate picking.

And Mongo, maybe it sounds Staccatto to you, but it really shouldn't sound like crap if you sweep at slow speeds. You just have to control your hands, and you can get rid of the staccatto sound by holding down the note for the entire time, instead of quickly taking it off and moving to the next one



I saw no alternate picking, that was more so economy and sweep picking. I can understand sweeping 5 string arpeggios, because alternate picking that would be insane, but it is possible, and it sounds different. Let me find a video, I am pretty sure that there are some videos of Steve Morse, and John Petrucci doing it. "goes on epic journey to Ithaca"
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
#24
Quote by yoozum
About sweep picking in black metal...
I know Dimmu Borgir isn't really considered black metal, but they do use it in some of their songs.


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#25
"Returns From Ithaca"
I know Vesperian Sorrow use sweeping, and they are black metal. Anyways, I could not find the videos. Damn you Insideac, you have not seen the last of me!
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
#27
Loomis
Broderick
Suicmez
Becker
Friedman
Gilbert

Sweeping sounds good if you don't misuse it. overuse isn't bad, since Jeff Loomis does nothing but sweep in alot of songs.
Dickless.
#28
Quote by insideac
Thats a terrible example because that can't be sweeped anyways. Im talking about 3 strings+ arpeggios, not 2 strings. Otherwise, yes here is another example of arpeggios being alternate picked
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eC4qhD8BOk0&mode=related&search=
The solo, 2:21

Itd be pretty weird to do a Bmin shape across 5 strings while alternate picking.

And Mongo, maybe it sounds Staccatto to you, but it really shouldn't sound like crap if you sweep at slow speeds. You just have to control your hands, and you can get rid of the staccatto sound by holding down the note for the entire time, instead of quickly taking it off and moving to the next one


Dude, I know my guitar playing. Make no mistake. If I need advice, I'll ask.

And when you let notes ring it's not really sweep picking.
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
#29
Quote by Mongochromat
Dude, I know my guitar playing. Make no mistake. If I need advice, I'll ask.

And when you let notes ring it's not really sweep picking.



Sweep picking = Right Hand Technique, you can let them ring and still sweep pick.
#30
Quote by insideac
Sweep picking = Right Hand Technique, you can let them ring and still sweep pick.


You should do a recording of that. I'm really anxious to hear how you can sweep pick and letting notes ring.
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
#31
Quote by Mongochromat
You should do a recording of that. I'm really anxious to hear how you can sweep pick and letting notes ring.


I think he means the strings can still ring before you get back up to them...
"If its the audience whos a bit lagging we just kick em in the nuts till they wake up!"
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#33
Quote by insideac

Mongochromatic just got raped.
"If its the audience whos a bit lagging we just kick em in the nuts till they wake up!"
Bruce Dickinson-Iron Maiden


My Gear:
RG 2? (its white with EMG's)
Crate GT220, 120 watts of absolute awesome!
#34
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.
#35
Quote by insideac


Haha! That's hardly what I concider letting a note ring.

Here's a sweep at your average tempo in that video(with an actual arpeggio)
http://www.yousendit.com/transfer.php?action=download&ufid=D641AD965C908C66

Yeah, you can hear how the notes ring out nicely.
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
#37
He said I can't sweep and let notes ring. I could sweep all 6 open strings and prove him wrong, get it? Sweeping is a right hand technique, you guys are using it interchangeably with arpeggios
#38
Quote by 11thHour
it can sound brilliant.

like Suicmez can really perfect sweeping and death metal, but some times it can sound forced.

Its better than beating the **** out of the whammy bar for sure though.


Whammy bar rape is teh secks
nyrkki
Founder of UG's COB Hatecrew
#39
Quote by insideac
He said I can't sweep and let notes ring. I could sweep all 6 open strings and prove him wrong, get it? Sweeping is a right hand technique, you guys are using it interchangeably with arpeggios


I hope you don't actually work as a music teacher, 'cuz you clearly got no idea what you are talking about. The whole point of sweep picking is to play each note isolated and in a constant motion. And because of that constant motion you can't let notes ring. Simple as that.

And it's not just a right hand technique either, because the left hand follows exactly the same strings as you sweep. Unlike regular strumming, which you showed in your video.

And to the guys above me:
Quote by 'rockintheblues 14, 2007 2:38 am'
but i really do hate you and hope you and everyone you love is killed in the worst possible ways. i hope i get to spit in your eyes as you let out your final breath
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