#1
hi, I've bought a used hot rod deluxe off of ebay (haven't got it yet) and it's 8 years old so I think I'm gonna change the tubes, I like the idea of putting 6v6's in instead of the 6L6's to lower the output but considering that I don't know much about electronics would it be hard to bias? I was wondering if anyone had tried any of these and what they thought of them.
https://ssl.eurotubes.com/cart/index.php?page=view_products&category_id=7&sub_category_id=32
mainly the second and seventh ones down as I would quite like a bit of extra gain.
Any help would be great thanks
#2
I bought one a few days ago, so congrats cos they really are awesome, unfortunately i have no idea, so im no help whatsoever.
#4
Quote by bilbo_hendrix
I like the idea of putting 6v6's in instead of the 6L6's to lower the output but considering that I don't know much about electronics would it be hard to bias?


You can't do that, not without major modifications to the amp. Even then, I don't know if you can do it. The voltages simply won't match up, and you'll blow those 6V6's left and right.

Try the amp out before you get any crazy ideas. You may be happy with the master volume. If not, you can always go the attenuator route.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#6
The guys at Eurotubes might be interested in selling you a new matched pair of 6V6's every couple of weeks, too.

I wouldn't do it.

Here's a link to some guy asking a similar question at Premier Guitar:

Greetings!

I'd like to swap my 6L6 tubes in my Hotrod DeVille with 6V6's, but there's no one here in the wilds of Montana that I trust to re-bias the amp. Am I looking for trouble if I swap them without re-biasing?

Thanks for your help!

Gary Menning


Hi, Gary.

Basically, the short answer is "yes," you're looking for trouble. But the biasing issue won't be your greatest cause for concern. There are a couple of other issues to consider as well, the first one being that 6V6's don't hold up to the higher voltages typically used in a 6L6 amp. The reason that a dual-6V6 amp typically has an output in the 20-watt range and a dual-6L6 amp has an output in the 40-50 watt range isn't only due to the fact that a 6L6 is capable of producing more power. It's also due to the fact that the power supply in the more powerful amp is generally supplying a higher voltage, which allows the 6L6 to output more power. Typically, the 6V6 can't handle these higher voltages too well, which will more than likely lead to very premature tube failure. Another, less frequently considered aspect is the plate impedance or "load" that's placed on the tube by the primary of the output transformer. An output transformer designed to work with a 6V6 tube has a considerably higher primary impedance than a 6L6 transformer. So, installing 6V6 tubes in an amp designed for 6L6's will place a greater load on the 6V6, which again can cause early tube failure.

Okay, so even after these issues are considered there's still the problem of re-biasing. First, the bias voltage might not even be in the proper range for a 6V6, so a resistor change in the bias supply could be required in order to put the bias voltage in the proper operating range. Next, from my recollection, most of the early Blues and HotRod series amps don't have a variable bias control, so a resistor change might be needed in order to achieve the proper bias voltage. All things considered, I'd have to say "stay away" from the 6V6's. If your primary reason for wanting to install 6V6's in the amp was to bring down the volume level, you might want to consider the use of an attenuator such as the Hot Plate, Air Brake or Silencer.

Good luck with the "Taming of the Hot Rod," Gary. Sounds like such an oxymoron, doesn't it?
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#7
hmm, well then wat's this about?

The New JJ 6V6S power tube, on the other hand, can reportedly handle up to 500V on the plates. I've tried the 6V6S power tubes, and I must say that I like their sound better than the 6L6GCs that I had. To my ears these tubes are much brighter than 6L6GCs, which I think is good for a dark amp like this. For example, an even tone with SED 6L6GC tubes: Treble on 12, Bass on 4, Mids on 5. For an even tone with the JJ 6V6S tubes: Treble on 9, Bass on 12, Mids on 12. (Note: I removed the NFB, so I no longer use the Presence control.) The transition to distortion in the clean channel is now smoother, and the overdrive isn't as flabby. The power amp distortion in the clean channel sounds far better than anything I've ever heard out of the drive channels. When the clean channel was overdriven with 6L6GCs it sounded muddy because most of the emphasis was on the low end, this is gladly not the case with the JJ 6V6S! The emphasis is on the mids and upper mids, which is good for cutting through the mix on stage. It's also worth mentioning that my HRDx is about as loud as a Blues Junior, and is probably putting out around 20W. So if you want less clean headroom, a quieter amp on stage, and more controllable bass I highly recommend trying the JJ 6V6S.


I got this from the unofficial hot rod deluxe owner's guide.
Does it maybe only work with that particular valve?
I'm confused
#8
http://studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/jvmods.html#mdtreble

I think it says in there somewhere how to change the tubes and which ones you can use... this sites pretty badass, has a lot of mods you cna do to the deville too
-------------------------------
Faded Gibson SG Special - Black ice mod
Seymour Duncan SH-5 in bridge
B-52 AT 112
Ted Weber Mass100 attenuator
EHX Small Clone
EHX Metal Muff
DIY Modded tubescreamer
Dunlop 535Q Wah
Wax Potting tutorial
#9
yea that's were I got the quote from, anyway can anyone tell me if they've tried any of those eurotubes sets and if they are a good idea. thanks.
#10
Quote by slatsmania
You can't do that, not without major modifications to the amp. Even then, I don't know if you can do it. The voltages simply won't match up, and you'll blow those 6V6's left and right.


None of that is true, i have used 6V6's in my hot rod deville and seen them used in other Deluxe's and deville's. I kept mine in for a good 6 months and had that amp balls to the wall most of that time, i only switched back because i needed the headroom back, they sounded great as well.

Hi, Gary.

Quote by slatsmania
6V6's don't hold up to the higher voltages typically used in a 6L6 amp.

It's also due to the fact that the power supply in the more powerful amp is generally supplying a higher voltage, which allows the 6L6 to output more power.

Typically, the 6V6 can't handle these higher voltages too well, which will more than likely lead to very premature tube failure.

An output transformer designed to work with a 6V6 tube has a considerably higher primary impedance than a 6L6 transformer.

Okay, so even after these issues are considered there's still the problem of re-biasing.so a resistor change in the bias supply could be required in order to put the bias voltage in the proper operating range.

Next, from my recollection, most of the early Blues and HotRod series amps don't have a variable bias control, so a resistor change might be needed in order to achieve the proper bias voltage.


None of the above are relavent facts, especially the part about the amp voltages, anyone who has ever worked on an amp knows that most tube amps draw similar voltage levels from the outlet, i have 2 tube amps, 1 is 5 watts the other is 60 and guess what? The 5 watter draws 115 volts and the 60 watter draws 120, they both have very different tubes as well, and if any of this was true about using diff tubes in diff amps, then why would these exist? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=THD+yellow+jacket
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Last edited by V12prowler at Oct 2, 2007,
#12
Quote by V12prowler
None of that is true, i have used 6V6's in my hot rod deville and seen them used in other Deluxe's and deville's. I kept mine in for a good 6 months and had that amp balls to the wall most of that time, i only switched back because i needed the headroom back, they sounded great as well.

Hi, Gary.


None of the above are relavent facts, especially the part about the amp voltages, anyone who has ever worked on an amp knows that most tube amps draw similar voltage levels from the outlet, i have 2 tube amps, 1 is 5 watts the other is 60 and guess what? The 5 watter draws 115 volts and the 60 watter draws 120, they both have very different tubes as well, and if any of this was true about using diff tubes in diff amps, then why would these exist? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigation?q=THD+yellow+jacket
Lolz. Ever wonder why valve amps use big transformers? My Valve Junior has a working internal voltage of about 400v, don't suggest things that might blow things up.
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.
#13
I'm surprised that people are doing this, and that it works. I still don't see the point. If you want a lower wattage amp, why not buy one?

I also don't get how JJ 6V6's are supposed to brighten the tone. JJ's are pretty dark sounding tubes in general. I'd put a brighter set of 6L6's in there if that's what I was after (not that anyone ever complains about Fender amps not being bright enough in the first place!).

But it seems like it can be done without hurting anything, so if you think it'll work for you, you may as well give it a shot.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#14
Quote by MrCarrot
Lolz. Ever wonder why valve amps use big transformers? My Valve Junior has a working internal voltage of about 400v, don't suggest things that might blow things up.


I don't believe i said anything about valve amps not using big transformers, did I?

And trust me, putting 6V6's in a hot rod will not damage the amp in anyway, never the less blow it up, i would know from experience, you're comment wasn't relevant to the subject what so ever, just sort of out there.
Quote by R_H_C_P
^Oh my God! You're the first person to actually notice that link! A pringle to you my friend!


My Surf-o-Strat Project
#16
Figured I'd bump this thread - I'm interested to know. How much rebiasing has to be done if replacing 6L6 with 6V6?
The Laney Thread are big and clever. No exceptions.