#1
okay heres the thing,from my knowledge of theory (which doesnt span several books) i only learned up to the 7th tone,and thats all i thought there is,after all,its all compared to the major scale,and its a 7 tone diatonic scale right??

so,i was reading this interview where steve vai was talking about ninths,and i was like wtf?? are there scales with 9ths? or are they extensions of the 7 tone scales,and how do you use them??

somebody help me out here,im confused!
#2
when you come to the octave you start again, i mean a 9th is the same as a 2nd
this from a practical point of view, cause in theory theres a slight difference
#3
so its just starting the scale over,and its the second tone 7+2 is 9 right?
but how is it different in theory?
and,just making sure,there are no 9 tone scales are there??
#4
it is different in that you get a different feel for the note, play these 2 chords and you'll inderstand

e----5-----0
B----6-----6
G----7-----7
D----0-----7
A----7-----5
E----X-----X

or these intervals

e------------
B------------
G----------2
D------------
A----0------
E----3-----3
#5
there are even 12 or 17 tone scales in oriental music but dont worry it doesnt matter for us occidental music playing guitarists and bassist

sorry but im not so much into theory that i can explain, maybe a 9th is just a 2nd an octave higher and a 17th is just a 2nd 2 octaves higher... :-) all in all you got an idea

gumbiliciuos i got the point with the intervals but i couldnt with the chords
Last edited by swinghead at Oct 3, 2007,
#6
Quote by Alijonroth
its all compared to the major scale,and its a 7 tone diatonic scale right??


-A diatonic scale contains seven notes, so I don't think it's necessary to call it 7 tone diatonic.

Also, there are different types of scales, a scale containing all the semitones on the guitar would be called a chromatic-scale. I haven't seen the interview with Steve Vai, so I can't comment on it.

The reason Oriental music can have 17+ notes on their "scales", which I believe is called "Maqam", is because they use micro-tonality (At least I haven't seen an instrument with frets).
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Last edited by Der Bomber at Oct 3, 2007,
#7
yes, a diatonic scale has 7 notes

thats what i meant, in a cromatic scale you have 12 tones cause you consider every half step as a note with the same importance as the others

in some oriental music you have intervals which module is different from our step so you get more (or less) notes, and you can obtain this on an instrument by making frets different from ours in lenght or adjustable ones, not only eliminating them
#8
The chords we are use to talking about are based on "tertial" harmony...its a fancy way of saying "every other note" ...which also means stacking thirds. So take the notes of a major scale:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

And stack them in thirds (every other note up to 7):
1 3 5 7

Now keep going after 7 (8 is octave which can also just be labeled 1)
1 3 5 7 2 4 6

Instead of "2 4 6"...add 7 to these like you were saying:
1 3 5 7 9 11 13

So the 9 is a 3rd above the 7th. The name for 9, 11, and 13 are "chord extensions". They are fancy ways of taking about the 2nd, 4th, and 6th degrees of a scale.

So you can look at chords and scales as the same thing, but just arranged differently. The scale crams all the notes into one octave. The cord spreads things out by taking every other note of the scale. (tertial chords do this. there are other types of chords that don't follow the "every other note" rule)
#9
Quote by Alijonroth
so its just starting the scale over,and its the second tone 7+2 is 9 right?

Close. A 9th chord contains the b7 and the 2nd.

C9
C E G Bb D
R 3 5 b7 9

A CMaj9 would contain the Major7.

CMaj9
C E G B D
R 3 5 7 9
#10
Quote by byx
The chords we are use to talking about are based on "tertial" harmony...its a fancy way of saying "every other note" ...which also means stacking thirds. So take the notes of a major scale:
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

And stack them in thirds (every other note up to 7):
1 3 5 7

Now keep going after 7 (8 is octave which can also just be labeled 1)
1 3 5 7 2 4 6

Instead of "2 4 6"...add 7 to these like you were saying:
1 3 5 7 9 11 13

So the 9 is a 3rd above the 7th. The name for 9, 11, and 13 are "chord extensions". They are fancy ways of taking about the 2nd, 4th, and 6th degrees of a scale.

So you can look at chords and scales as the same thing, but just arranged differently. The scale crams all the notes into one octave. The cord spreads things out by taking every other note of the scale. (tertial chords do this. there are other types of chords that don't follow the "every other note" rule)



that was EXTREMELY informative man,thanks,but again,sorry,didnt you mean "So the 9 is a (2nd) above the 7th. cuz it corresponds to the second degree of the scale??or am i missing something here?
#11
Intervals above the 8th degree are called compound intervals. You'll commonly come across 9th, 11th, and 13ths.
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