#1
what is the best kind of pedal chain for minimal tone loss ?
all true bypass pedals ? at the start and end of the chain a buffered pedal ?
a clean boost at the start (or end ?) and true bypass pedals for the rest ?
another way ?
put simply, what is the best type of pedal chain for absolute minimal tone loss ?

also, what is considered a good buffer for a pedal, and what is considered a bad buffered pedal ?


thanks alot guys !!
#2
It depends on the length of the chain. With fewer than 5 pedals, all true bypass would work unless you have a very long cable from your guitar. Anything more than 5 should have a buffer at the front of the chain.
As far as good buffers and bad buffers, it seems that you get what you pay for. Digitech buffers are crap, Boss are a bit better, etc etc. There's an MI audio pedal called the Boost N Buff which has a great buffer and a clean boost, so you're covered both ways- it's not very expensive either.
http://www.miaudio.com/BNB1.htm
#3
First a good clean grounded multi power supply, like a Godlyke or One Spot. That way you don't have to deal with weak batteries. Second, keep your cables at minimum length, i.e. between pedals the little short 3" or less patches between pedals. High quality guitar and patch cords. True bypasses are obviously good. Use the effects loop for time delay effects such as reverb, delay, chorus, phaser/flanger etc. Good EQ pedal also in the effects loop. If I was going to boost I'd probably start at the beginning of the pedal chain. Just suggestions, don't know much about buffering.
#4
Quote by Roc8995
It depends on the length of the chain. With fewer than 5 pedals, all true bypass would work unless you have a very long cable from your guitar. Anything more than 5 should have a buffer at the front of the chain.
As far as good buffers and bad buffers, it seems that you get what you pay for. Digitech buffers are crap, Boss are a bit better, etc etc. There's an MI audio pedal called the Boost N Buff which has a great buffer and a clean boost, so you're covered both ways- it's not very expensive either.
http://www.miaudio.com/BNB1.htm

what makes a good buffer good ? infact lets start at the very begin, what is a buffer, cause i think i got kind of a misconception about it
#5
A buffer is basically a transistor, IC, or even tube (although not in pedals) that's set up for really low gain. It's used to give you a low-impedance signal through something like a tonestack or, in this application, your pedal chain. It reduces signal loss. A 'good' buffer would be completely transparent, not affecting your tone at all, and wouldn't decrease or increase the level of the signal.
#6
Quote by cokeisbetter
A buffer is basically a transistor, IC, or even tube (although not in pedals) that's set up for really low gain. It's used to give you a low-impedance signal through something like a tonestack or, in this application, your pedal chain. It reduces signal loss. A 'good' buffer would be completely transparent, not affecting your tone at all, and wouldn't decrease or increase the level of the signal.

so a buffer reduces the input impedance ? when you say 'it reduces signal loss', do you mean it doesn't have much signal loss, or it reduces the signal loss that you got from other pedals ?
so a good buffer is just as good (or better ?) than a true bypass pedal ?
#7
I think it makes the signal stronger, while actually not messing the signal up. So yes, a good buffer could be better than a true bypass (but like he said, if less than 5 pedals it doesn't matter if you have a good buffer or true bypass).
#9
I think you'll just have to try and see if it crappifies your tone (or ask people who have tried one).
#10
ok, so a buffer makes the signal stronger, right ? so why not get all true bypass pedals and put a clean boost in front of them ? that way there won't be tone change from the pedals... ahrgg... i still don't get it.
#11
Quote by The red Strat.
so a buffer reduces the input impedance ? when you say 'it reduces signal loss', do you mean it doesn't have much signal loss, or it reduces the signal loss that you got from other pedals ?
so a good buffer is just as good (or better ?) than a true bypass pedal ?

A buffer has a really high input impedance. High input impedance + low output impedance = good. It reduces signal loss because the low impedance output of a buffer can easily go through a bunch of cable without getting messed up. Your guitar has a high output impedance (bad) which gets corrupted after a lot of cable, leading to tone and volume loss. The buffer prevents this.

An ideal buffer like I talked about earlier would be better than a TB pedal. Unfortunately, you pretty much can't get 100% transparent buffers. They all suck a little tone, and once you put a couple buffers next to each other, that little tone suck becomes loads of tone suck. Because of that, one pedal with a good, transparent buffer at the beginning of an otherwise all TB signal chain is the best way to avoid loss with a long chain.
#12
aaah ok, now would a clean boost give the same effect as a buffer at the start of a chain ? (to drive to long chain)

i think i'm starting to get this
#13
So now that this is all said, that means i would put my rig like this when i get more pedals.

guitar>clean boost w/ buffer>wah>OD>etc>amp?
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Quote by SuperSamuraiGuy
Thanks for answering all my question ssguitar



JCM900 FOR SELL!
#14
I much prefer using a booster as a buffer, instead of using something like a Boss pedal in bypass mode. Boosters like the Zvex Super Hard On are really good for this.
#15
Wahs are a great place for buffers, too.
Quote by corduroyEW
Cheap amps are "that bad". They suck up your tone like cocaine at Kate Moss' party.


I am Michael!
#16
^ my wah is TB
[IMG]http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9148/dawhip005jf4.jpg[/IMG]

Quote by SuperSamuraiGuy
Thanks for answering all my question ssguitar



JCM900 FOR SELL!
#17
Quote by The red Strat.
aaah ok, now would a clean boost give the same effect as a buffer at the start of a chain ? (to drive to long chain)

i think i'm starting to get this


Yes, but not for the reasons you're thinking.

The level of the signal has nothing to do with signal loss. The reason boosters give the same effect as buffers is that it is common for booster circuits to have the same characteristics as a booster: a high input impedance and a low output impedance.

Some booster circuits, however don't have all that high input impidance, and in some cases it's variable, so if you're going to use a booster as your buffer, make sure you choose the right one. The zvex SHO (as mentioned before) does the job really well. Look in particular for Op-amp, JFET and MOSFET based boosters for this effect, although BJT circuits can also accomplish this.
"You know nature has lost it's stead to man, when a streetlamp outshines the moon."
#18
ah ok thanks for the very helpful post

thanks everyone, i believe i understand everything now
Last edited by The red Strat. at Oct 8, 2007,