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#1
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.
#3
I agree, but I can see why it is needed. I haven't played anything overly fast yet which I have needed a metronome. But I guess it is accurate and 'professional'. The beat in a band will be the drums so it teaches you to play along with that.
#4
A metronome is good to practise with but you shouldn't overdo it. A lot of people seem to belive you should do EVERYTHING to a metronome, but I think that's exagerated. It can help you with scales and exercises and such but like you said you should also learn to feel the time of the music internally.

I think playing with other people is a great way to learn how to play in time 'cause there is a lot more going on then just a machine going 'tik-tik-tik-tik'
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#5
I see what you're saying, but if you're trying to increase your speed picking, and are doing a fairly long exercise, it's quite easy to fall behind the beat, and without a metronome you'd probably be unaware of this. accuracy is key for alternate picking and all that.

and anyway, normally you have a drummer to take care of that for you :P
#6
the metronome like many things is a tool. if you can practice to one flawlessly at every single bpm then you should certainly feel accomplished. however the instincts of timing and being able to "push" or "pull" the tempo to suit the flow is important as well..
#7
Good alternative to a metronome: use drum loops! Much more fun and efficient as a metronome.
#8
I couldn't disagree more (with the threadstarter).

You say that you should be able to feel time internally, how can you develop an internal rhythm without hearing a steady beat?

I would say that tapping your foot is an external manifestation of feeling that internal rhythm. Haven't you ever heard a beat and just wanted to dance?
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#9
you cant throw anything out until you have absorsed it.


its like saying... "dont worry about keys.. you dont have to stay in them so dont learn them"

which has some truth, but you must first learn them before you can forget them.

imagine it like a sculptor.
he cannot sculpt something without starting with a HUGE block and then begin to chisel away.

chinese martial arts share similar theories.... to forget the forms you must absorb them...

am i waffling?

dont throw it away!
#10
I totally disagree.

In a studio situation, playing to a click is crucial. You can do it without but the quality tends to diminish instantly.
None of the guys in any of my bands, past or present, can play to a click that well and I think that if they could, our recordings would sound 10,000 times better.

Of course at the same time, hinging on practicing to a metronome isn't great either but you really should be able to if you want to have any success as a musician.
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#11
yeah... this is a ridiculous thread to start.

people who ask about metronomes NEED THEM.

people who dont need them anymore... DONT ASK!!!

this is just filling beginners heads with shortcut ideas... I know for a fact that i need metronome practice and this thread wont change that.
#12
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.

This is almost as much bollocks as the old "screw theory man, I'm a feel player" brigade.

Can I keep time in my head? Yes.

Can I tell you if I'm playing at 80bpm, or identify an increase from 120bpm to 130bpm for practicing...of course i bloody well can't.
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#13
Haha. Maybe its a troll.


The metronome is ESSENTIAL to get your timing precise. If you don't use one, you
are completely FOOLING yourself you can do it in your head. You can't. Its pretty
much impossible. You need external feedback to do this.

It's through precise timing that you'll be able to play better and faster. A drum
machine doesn't really even cut it. It's more difficult to guage precision.

You can spot someone who doesn't practice with a metronome a mile away. You
just have to listen to them play with a backing track. Usually, it's painful.
#14
Words cannot describe the degree to which I disagree with the threadstarter. You might as well say "Guitarists look at he neck too much. You should just be able to feel the notes! THROW THE NECK AWAY!"
#15
Well, of course it makes sense doesnt it? When you play, you will nearly always be playing with a backing track, or just playing along to something if you are practising. It is much better to practise keeping time while you are playing rather than spending a whole session with a metronome clicking away with chromatic rubbish.

And I suppose that if you play completely solo, then it is not essential for you to keep an absolute beat, it can sway by 1 and be completely unnoticable to yourself and to listeners.

I have never used a metronome in my life, because I have guitar pro which plays the song for me while I play over it. Its much better, and to be honest, more fun, which in turn is better for oneself.
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#16
Human timing is extremely fallible.

Metronomes are not.
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#17
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.
Fascinating insight, Patrick. Why, then, do you suppose Beethoven used a metronome? In fact, Mr. Maezel, the metronome's inventor, made one specifically for Ludwig who, as we all know, was severely time-and-feeling-challenged. Chopin, who made a fair living teaching piano, also used one. Did he perhaps feel it helped his students, or was he only crippling them with this overused crutch?

Thanks for the advice, but I'm going to keep using my metronome.
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#18
Quote by gpb0216
Fascinating insight, Patrick. Why, then, do you suppose Beethoven used a metronome? In fact, Mr. Maezel, the metronome's inventor, made one specifically for Ludwig who, as we all know, was severely time-and-feeling-challenged. Chopin, who made a fair living teaching piano, also used one. Did he perhaps feel it helped his students, or was he only crippling them with this overused crutch?

Thanks for the advice, but I'm going to keep using my metronome.


Your witty mannerism is quite amusing sometimes.
#19
Quote by gpb0216
Fascinating insight, Patrick. Why, then, do you suppose Beethoven used a metronome? In fact, Mr. Maezel, the metronome's inventor, made one specifically for Ludwig who, as we all know, was severely time-and-feeling-challenged. Chopin, who made a fair living teaching piano, also used one. Did he perhaps feel it helped his students, or was he only crippling them with this overused crutch?

Thanks for the advice, but I'm going to keep using my metronome.


Thread over.
#21
Quote by notoriousnumber

I have never used a metronome in my life, because I have guitar pro which plays the song for me while I play over it. Its much better, and to be honest, more fun, which in turn is better for oneself.


That's better than nothing. You'll at least get a better feeling for the beat. But,
it's still no substitute for a metronome. As I said before, its a precision tool that
you use to guage hitting the beat correctly. Without it, you're almost certainly
either ahead or behind the beat (although you might not think so). There's really
nothing you can substitute for the kind fo feedback it gives.

If you can't hit the beat precisely at slower tempos, you'll almost certainly lose it
at higher tempos and faster playing. Being able to hit the beat with precision, in
turn opens up being able to play better and faster.
#22
^ yup yup, +1 hundred. i personally whenever playing without anything set a little bit of delay up and play along with the delay.
#23
metronome is crucial, not only for soloing but to practice rythem.

HOWEVER

people seem tof orget that when practicing with a metronome, you have to keep your foot tapping along with it. ALWAYS.

it is the equivalent to you playing with a drummer, always make sure YOU are tapping your foot as well, because if the drummer suddenly stops, or does some type of polyrythem where it is hard to identify the beats, you will be instantaneously lost if you were not tapping your foot along with him.

and if you are lost, then that means you aren't playing, and if you aren't playing, chances are everyone else panics, and the band falls apart.


understand?
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#24
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.


not everyone has a great sense of time. plus even if you do, it will help when practicing scales and patterns. the metronome makes sure you stay at the speed and timing you want to practice at. with it you can "force" yourself to stay in that certain time or speed so you can practice properly. it also makes sure you are hitting each not on beat. you may have good time but if you practice mistakes then you will repeat them. the metronome helps keep you on the right path and fix any timing problems you might not have noticed.

using one would improve your internal time anyway id imagine.
#25
Quote by edg
If you can't hit the beat precisely at slower tempos, you'll almost certainly lose it at higher tempos and faster playing. Being able to hit the beat with precision, in turn opens up being able to play better and faster.


What I love about Guitar Pro is the speed trainer, which is set to loop on a certain bar and increases the tempo after every loop by 1, so Im not trying to look like a person who plays everything at full tempo when I pick it up.

But thats besides the point, even though I dont specifically use a metronome, I use something that will keep the beat for me, so its basically the same thing.
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#26
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.


I agreed with everything apart from the tapping of feet. Tapping of feet is often used in the enjoyment of music, whether this is within the band or the people watching the band, it makes no difference.
#27
^ yes it is used, usually along with a drummer that keeps good time. any musician that knows anything about anything will tell you to use and practice to a metronome. i don't as much anymore (like i said before, i use a drum machine alot) but i did religiously for years and i still do from time to time to make sure i'm not slipping.
#28
Ah, throwing away your metronome is nothing! Throw away your ability to read music, good technique, dynamics, hell let's go the whole hog and throw making music away.

Seriously though, I can't give words to how important a metronome can be. You must always practice with a metronome, especially when learning something new. Because, yes, you can tap your foot, but what happens if at a complicated section you get stuck and then fall out of place with the beat? Subconsciously you tap faster or slower so it seems like you haven't gone out, or that your foot is trying to keep in time with the actual playing not the beat. Metronomes never go faster or slower. They are consistent, something a muscle in your leg, isn't.
#29
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.

Try playing a piece on the guitar without tapping your foot or otherwise keeping the beat - and record it. One thing is feeling the music yourself, but listeners won't feel it if it's not rhythmically correct unless they're as much into the music as you. While in the end you shouldn't be dependant on the metronome as you say, it's good for developing a sense of consistent, constant rhythm.
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#30
^ even better, start off playing to a metronome or drum loop then have a friend turn the metronome volume down and keep playing. have them turn it back up 20 or 30 seconds later. you will probably fall out of time. the longer you go with it off, the more off time you're going to get (i actually recorded a friend doing this once, he actually went out of time and went back in with it right before the metronome got turned back up, we had to go into acid and paste a metronome over his track so he could hear where he fell outta time)
#31
Quote by Patrick Curley
I think their overused. ...if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body.


Fool.. thats all i have to say.


although... i do find it amazing that mentally challenged people are able to navigate the internet
#33
I half expected a reply to gpb's post along the lines of "Beethoven had no soul hendrix wuz a wayyyyy bettur musician!".
#34
I've never met Beethoven but I was first introduced to this idea at a Jazz workshop a few years ago by two eminent Australian Jazz players Ted Vining (drummer) and Bob Sedergreen (piano).
I was a little surprised at first but I tried it and it worked. Just thought I'd share it with others in case it worked for them.
Sorry if I caused any offence.
#35
^ well the thing is, chances are, those guys were probably playing to metronomes to start with (or perhaps with drummers that were really tight) there was no offense caused, just sounded really ignorant is all.
#36
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.


actually i think the truth is that the metronome forces you to deal with the fact that your internal timing isnt as good as you thought. This frustrates alot of people, which is why they avoid using them, and come up with ways to justify their position.


I agree with you that people may have an "inner sense of timing".... especially if they listen to and play alot of music. that doesnt mean though that using a metronome would take anything away from that. If anything it will enhance it, and make it stronger.

There is alot of things you can practice with a metronome that your "inner sense of timing" may not be aware of. Things like syncopation, or just rythem patterns in general.

The metronome is a great tool. Can it get misused? sure.... but "throwing it away" isnt that great of an idea IMO.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Oct 9, 2007,
#37
i dont use it all the time, cause that damn ticking pisses me off a lot

but you friggin need one

i even use one when im jamming with one of my bands, i set it off to the side, let my drummer hear it, he starts song, and at the end of the song i check to see if were still in time
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#38
Quote by insideac
Haha, and some fools agreed with him at the beginning

I did because I've never used one. I play along with the music though. Maybe the same deal but maybe not. I don't do many exercises. I try to learn via songs if you get me. Probably not the best way but works for me.
#39
Quote by Patrick Curley
I notice lots of folks suggesting metronomes for just about everything, I think their overused. You should be able to feel time internally and if you're relying on a metronome when you practice how are you going to be able to keep time when you haven't got one?

Even tapping your foot distracts that internal sense of time. Try feeling the time in the music rather than in your body, or worse still having some machine do it for you.
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#40
my guitar teacher how has been playing for like 20 years says that he still uses the metronome atleast 75 percent of the time he practices.
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