#1
Do you believe the when it comes to morals of what is good and bad, and how one behaves peacefully (peacefully meaning to obey rules) are part of human nature, or are they learned?

Essentially what I am asking is this; Let's say a few humans have a complete exclusion of all ethics from their life (from the moment they are born). They live in a big dome when they are born. They are given what they need to survive, and nothing more (no teachers, rules, government, authority, etc.

They are basically humans in the most primitive state. If we were to view these humans in their dome, what do you think we would classify them as? Good or Evil?

I personally don't believe Morals are part of human nature, rather than they are learned. If I had to guess, I would say that morals, good and evil, rules, etc. were developed by humans as a form of protection from harm. I don't know if the humans in the above scenario would be classified as "evil", so to speak, but I don't think they would be classified as "good".
#2
Morality dependes on "where and when". i.e. what type of society and in which time.

You can't say that someone is born "good" or "evil", because what's considered good and evil changes all the time.
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#3
Quite simply, they would be amoral, not moral, yet not immoral.
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#4
I don't believe in any form of innate idea. Also, I don't believe in labellling anyone good or evil, no matter how convenient it is.
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#5
Depends upon the actions they took.
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#6
I agree with Mad Marius. Good and evil are how society perceives and dictates.

edit: I love all this intelligence appearing in the Pit.
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#7
I think we'd have to wait and see what happens. My money is on a sort of Lord of the Flies deal, with the fat one getting murdered, and possibly eaten, by the rest.
#8
i agree with you that morals and ethics are learned. however, i think the human animal requires some set of rules to live by, some sort of structure. i think that humans will naturally form their own packs/groups/troops, and one of them will rise as the leader. he/she will lay down some rules in order to ensure the well-being of the group. much like early man did.

EDIT: @Anarion614, when the madcap posts a thread, its usuallly pretty deep like this. he was the one responsible for the thread abt 2047 i believe.
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Last edited by Mr_BTP at Oct 9, 2007,
#9
I was wondering this myself the other day, drunk and waiting for a taxi, probably an incredibly dumbed-down version with simpler words. I really think the surroundings and experiences of a young child are the primary factors in their morals growing up. I think from birth they're squarely in the middle of morality.
#10
good and evil, morals and such are definately taught.
if you take the fruedian stand point that there is the Id - the primitive state you talk about - sex, power, money food etc.
the ego and superego, self control and judge respectively.
They are developed through life
all life developments have to be taught or learned or they cannot happen.
Prostitutes for example
Its the oldest job of all time.
They started off ok
In the jacobean era onwards (for a bit) brothels were on and off legal and illegal.
This shows that its society which determin what people have to consider right and wrong.

Nudity is another thing.
some consider it morally wrong to go through a mall naked, some see it as the way of nature and they its supposed to be.

I could rant for hours and hours about this so gonna shut up now
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#11
Well...it depends on your stance on morality, human nature and religion. On one hand you could agree with Voltaire when he said, "All sects are different, because they come from men; morality is everywhere the same, because it comes from God," and believe that all humans must know right from wrong due to their human nature given to them by God.

Or you could take a sort of Darwinist view, that of survival of the fittest, and also agree with Noam Chomsky's quote... "The principle that human nature, in its psychological aspects, is nothing more than a product of history and given social relations." Morality and ethics, then, could be a wholly man-made thing, society rules them and they rule society.

But if they are man made, how and why did they come about? There must be something original inside the human mind that brought about morals and ethics, it couldn't have just been decided 'this is right and that is wrong.' There must have been reasons, but what reasons?

To be honest, I don't know. It's all philosophy.
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Last edited by Child In Time at Oct 9, 2007,
#12
Quote by MightyAl
I think we'd have to wait and see what happens. My money is on a sort of Lord of the Flies deal, with the fat one getting murdered, and possibly eaten, by the rest.



Trust you to undermine the rarely seen 'intelligence' of The Pit.


Personally, I don't know. That's the most honest answer, apart from some wag possibly telling you that you're an arse.
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#13
Quote by MightyAl
I think we'd have to wait and see what happens. My money is on a sort of Lord of the Flies deal, with the fat one getting murdered, and possibly eaten, by the rest.


I now have a craving for human meat.
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#14
yeah i definitly think morals are learned, by teaching, experience, and many other factors. depends on what your personal position is on what is good/evil to classify one of the little wankers as evil/good. If one beats a smaller one down for a piece of food that it will die without is that necessarily evil? or good for that matter? It totally depends on the society. They used to chop of your hands if you stole something. Now that is considered wrong/evil/immoral but back then it was perfectly normal and the upside is that if they do it once they don't even have a choice to do it again or not. I could go on for hours about how many variables and factors there are here

EDIT: yeah i go with Darwinian theory

Double EDIT: (down arrow) *couldnt find it on the keyboard if its there* depends on what we think is evil or good i beleive we are born know justa bout nothing and majority of what we know is taught to us.

Also I don't beleive in God sending down a couple laws and bein all like "OKAYY BEEETCHES DO DIS OR GO TO DA HELL" i think that someone long long long ago was like f*ck you chopped off my hand it really f***ing hurt and they got high up in society or had friends up there they and they put in their influence ect. to get everyone to think chopping off peoples hands for stealing a candy is bad cuz it hurts and disables you for life.
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#15
I'd say we're born with the capability of being good or evil. Deciding which one we choose is up to us
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#16
Ach more people need to take notice of my post.


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#17
IMO, Morals could not have evolved - they would only hinder the progress of development. Besides, when you look at the diverse array of cultures on Earth (ancient ones - the ones that had no external contact) you see that they had largely the same morals. For instance - South American tribes and European monarchies both agreed on fundamental ideas, like murder, theft, etc., as well as things like justice, leadership, and (though I wouldn't classify it the same as morality) honor. Since human morals would have developed long after the spread of pre-human apes and WAY after Pangaea split, it is unlikely that all these systems of morality would come to be the same due to evolutionistic conditioning.
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#18
Quote by The Madcap
Do you believe the when it comes to morals of what is good and bad, and how one behaves peacefully (peacefully meaning to obey rules) are part of human nature, or are they learned?

Essentially what I am asking is this; Let's say a few humans have a complete exclusion of all ethics from their life (from the moment they are born). They live in a big dome when they are born. They are given what they need to survive, and nothing more (no teachers, rules, government, authority, etc.

They are basically humans in the most primitive state. If we were to view these humans in their dome, what do you think we would classify them as? Good or Evil?

I personally don't believe Morals are part of human nature, rather than they are learned. If I had to guess, I would say that morals, good and evil, rules, etc. were developed by humans as a form of protection from harm. I don't know if the humans in the above scenario would be classified as "evil", so to speak, but I don't think they would be classified as "good".


Phew...I thought I was the only one who saw it that way.
Thank you Madcap, I couldn't have said that better myself...You have just summarized some of my basic beliefs. I have just recently (few months ago) concluded the bold statement and I feel it to be the only logical approach to the morals issue.
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Last edited by Rust_in_Peace34 at Oct 9, 2007,
#19
Quote by Mr_BTP
EDIT: @Anarion614, when the madcap posts a thread, its usuallly pretty deep like this. he was the one responsible for the thread abt 2047 i believe.


Oh yes, I'm familiar with Madcap's posts and thoughts. It's just nice to see other people responding back in a similar thoughtful way. It's refreshing after reading through that "my unborn child" thread.
Who dat?
#20
I also think most if not all morals taught are based on our ability to co-operate and be considerate to others. Not that being considerate is "good" or "evil", right or wrong but it is more of a primitive idea based on simple logic that the group has more power and can accomplish more than the individual. This primitive logic was essential for the human race to survive in our early stages as hunters and also and essential part in our social development. So, right or wrong? No. We just needed "morals" for survival.

Well that's my 2 cents.
Quote by mcw00t
"so you mean if the father is sterile, the kid will be sterile too?"

Proof God exists and evolution is a lie:
Quote by elguitarrista3
the prove is u because u did n create urself and ur parents dindt and their parents didnt and so on and we are not monkeys peace

#21
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IMO, Morals could not have evolved - they would only hinder the progress of development. Besides, when you look at the diverse array of cultures on Earth (ancient ones - the ones that had no external contact) you see that they had largely the same morals. For instance - South American tribes and European monarchies both agreed on fundamental ideas, like murder, theft, etc., as well as things like justice, leadership, and (though I wouldn't classify it the same as morality) honor. Since human morals would have developed long after the spread of pre-human apes and WAY after Pangaea split, it is unlikely that all these systems of morality would come to be the same due to evolutionistic conditioning.

I kinda agree with this. While I don't necessarily think there's such things as "good" and "evil", there does seem to be a common moral code, albeit a vague one. You can't argue that other animals don't have genetic behaviors, so why not humans?
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#22
Morals = come from environment and situations your in and experiance through life...

Hence why they and your views change throughout life

I'd write more, but, it's late, I'm lazy, and we've done this topic before at some stage I think...
#23
I believe humans to be born neutral. And even if they live in a secluded, isolated place, they would still develop morals and rules, consciously or otherwise. And I guess, since they do not have any other communities or media affecting them, they would develop a society that actually reflected what they think, as opposed to what was fed to them since birth.
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