#1
I know the pit is full of sarcasm, and I am guilty of that too...but I was hoping for some serious contemplation.

If no one is completely bad nor good should anyone who is technically considered a "rapist" because of one incident ever be given another chance? I don't necessarily mean another chance in a relationship. I just mean a chance at life.

I don't want to make this into some thread where I whine about something very personal...so I'm attempting to keep it hypothetical and pretty general.

So if someone who is perhaps bipolar and in an extremely stressful state of mind crosses the line in the way of rape or violence should they always be reported? Its a tricky question because it may be somewhat out of their control. Is it possible for a person who is capable of something like this still be a good person at heart? Can extremely stressful environments and relationships drive good people to do crazy things?

thoughts?
#2
I don't think so. People who are bipolar don't rape people and blame it on their disorder. People who rape other people don't usually ever feel bad for it, and won't ever learn from their mistakes. If I'm wrong, please enlighten me. I have never heard of someone who has raped someone else all the sudden realizing that they're wrong and stopped doing it.
#3
You can't blame everyone on a mental condition. If you want forgiveness, and if you want to rehabilitate yourself back into the good graces of those around you, you need to take personal responsibility for your actions.

Hey guys! I just started playing electric guitar should I get a Gabson Lay Pall or a Femdor Startokaster. I like the picks on the gabsons but i like how sweet femdors look. Beforre i get a gabson what company makes them?
#4
Yes, but it may be possible with someone with bipolar disorder to feel bad about it after the "mania" has passed...especially someone who isn't on medication. I don't know. I don't know much about the disorder but I have read that it can distort your sense of right and wrong. If you look at it that way, it could be possible for someone to be a good person and still be capable of committing a violent act. hmm. I just don't know how much stress can work as a factor in sort of fueling someones behavior with bipolar disorder.

edit: ^to testament
#5
I'm bi polar and have never raped or been violent with anyone. So to say all bi polar folk are like this is extremely inaccurate.
#6
If someone blames a rape they committed on bi-polar they need to be put to death. If they can't control their emotions they deserve it. If they are too weak to accept what they did they deserve it. Either way death is the answer for them
#7
Do you have MSN? We gotta talk about the cover, my mic doesnt pick up the single notes on acoustic very well. Could you do the guitar?
#8
I'm in no way implying that everyone with the disorder is capable of it. I'm just speaking about someone who does have it but isn't on any medication. From what I've read, violence and bipolar disorder often go together if it is untreated.
#9
You bring up a very good point, and I will say this to you: There is no such thing as a bad person or good person, just people who either agree with society or don't.
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#10
Quote by 7daycrisis
Do you have MSN? We gotta talk about the cover, my mic doesnt pick up the single notes on acoustic very well. Could you do the guitar?


haha i have AIM. my screen name is the same as my UG name. and yeah, I could try the guitar!
#12
Quote by Aqua Dementia
I'm bi polar and have never raped or been violent with anyone. So to say all bi polar folk are like this is extremely inaccurate.


I don't think that was the point of the hypothetical at all. Bipolarity was just used as a state under which someone might not realize what was going on. I don't think it was a sweeping statement about bipolar people.
#13
Um.. I'm bipolar. And it usually leads to me being a dick at various points, and at the time I don't particularly care. Not until I come down.

Kill us all, ftw?
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#14
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Um.. I'm bipolar. And it usually leads to me being a dick at various points, and at the time I don't particularly care. Not until I come down.

Kill us all, ftw?


i REALLY hope no one is offended...because i'm not at all trying to say bipolar=rape. I was just using that as the basis of what I'm trying to ask. I really don't know enough about the disorder. Thats why I wonder if it can cause SOME people (untreated) who have a good heart to do something that is considered a horrible act.

Are you on medication? If you don't mind me asking. I'm just curious because thats basically the whole point of this...wondering if without the right help someone with the disorder can do something thats truly out of their control.
#15
Quote by anOnyMouSanIe
i REALLY hope no one is offended...because i'm not at all trying to say bipolar=rape. I was just using that as the basis of what I'm trying to ask. I really don't know enough about the disorder. Thats why I wonder if it can cause SOME people (untreated) who have a good heart to do something that is considered a horrible act.

Are you on medication? If you don't mind me asking. I'm just curious because thats basically the whole point of this...wondering if without the right help someone with the disorder can do something thats truly out of their control.


I was at first, not as offended as I was earlier. But still, the Bi polar = rape thing came out of no where.
#16
^ I don't really see whats offensive about wondering if someone who is in an extremely stressful relationship and has bipolar disorder AND is untreated could possibly commit an act such as rape without it being fully in their control.
#17
Of course they should be reported. Bipolar or not, they are still clearly a danger to society. Political correctness should not stand in the way of public safety.
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#18
Quote by Altered_Carbon
Of course they should be reported. Bipolar or not, they are still clearly a danger to society. Political correctness should not stand in the way of public safety.


Suppose that i know this person very well though. I see that he is a completely different person now that he is out of the stressful relationship. He was often violent towards himself when his life was unstable...but if he is in control of his life he is in control of himself. So considering that, I think if he got help he should be able to have a chance at a good life. I don't know. I just think that things aren't always as black and white as they appear to be.
#19
Quote by anOnyMouSanIe
^ I don't really see whats offensive about wondering if someone who is in an extremely stressful relationship and has bipolar disorder AND is untreated could possibly commit an act such as rape without it being fully in their control.



I'm kidding. But I am Bi Polar, I wasn't kidding about that.
#20
Quote by anOnyMouSanIe
Suppose that i know this person very well though. I see that he is a completely different person now that he is out of the stressful relationship. He was often violent towards himself when his life was unstable...but if he is in control of his life he is in control of himself. So considering that, I think if he got help he should be able to have a chance at a good life. I don't know. I just think that things aren't always as black and white as they appear to be.

Depends then. Are you able to base that decision completely subjectively, without letting your feelings for this person get in the way?
If he is reformed, and you can verify this, then go with your instincts. But a shadow of a doubt can lead to trouble in such situations.
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#21
Quote by Altered_Carbon
Of course they should be reported. Bipolar or not, they are still clearly a danger to society. Political correctness should not stand in the way of public safety.


I agree. It needs to be reported so the person who did it can get help if thats what they need. No offence but i'm sick of people blaming a mental disorder every time they fail at life. Its really annoying when they say they have one but they've never even been to a doctor about it.
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#22
I believe it is entirely possible for good people to be driven to do horrible things. You've probably heard of the Zimbardo Stanford prison experiment. If anyone's interested check it out here. (Good ol' Wikipedia!) To paraphrase, the experiment shows that basically good people are capable of doing nasty things as a result of their environment.

I know this doesn't have much to do with bipolar diseases, but I think it helps to answer those last two questions you ask.

So I think the science is in on the question of whether or not good people can be led to do bad things by external forces. It's definitely not exact science, but studies continue to show that.

So if you believe this, then it seems reasonable to believe that people deserve second chances. And when mental disorders are involved, then I would argue that that is even more true. But it becomes trickier because mental disorders can be unpredictable. So there's that moral question of whether it is right to keep a person in society who is capable of doing acts like that even if it is not necessarily their fault. The argument against that would obviously be that society needs to protect potential victims. It's obviously not good to have someone in society if that person is on the verge of "loosing it" and committing a violent act like that.

I think it's such a gray issue because it's hard to find the balance between an individual's rights and the protection of society. Even if that person is good, how do you deal with the fact that someone else may suffer from this person's actions when they are not 'all the way there?' But then again, obviously it is completely unjust and unfair to lock someone up for having an illness.

If someone cannot function because of an illness, then it is wrong to judge them by the actions they commit while in that state. But as far as what to do about that...I just don't know. It's definitely not black and white to me. It's just a big clump of gray. It's a great question though and it's definitely a good conversation to have.
#24
It doesn't work like that. Being bipolar, having that disorder, doesn't make rape OK. Sure, it distorts your sense of right and wrong, but it doesn't cause you to go on insane rape rampages. That's just you, on the inside, based on if you're just insane or have had it rough growing up, or whatever.

Everyone deserves a second chance. Just not a third.
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#25
Quote by anOnyMouSanIe
I know the pit is full of sarcasm, and I am guilty of that too...but I was hoping for some serious contemplation.

If no one is completely bad nor good should anyone who is technically considered a "rapist" because of one incident ever be given another chance? I don't necessarily mean another chance in a relationship. I just mean a chance at life.

I don't want to make this into some thread where I whine about something very personal...so I'm attempting to keep it hypothetical and pretty general.

So if someone who is perhaps bipolar and in an extremely stressful state of mind crosses the line in the way of rape or violence should they always be reported? Its a tricky question because it may be somewhat out of their control. Is it possible for a person who is capable of something like this still be a good person at heart? Can extremely stressful environments and relationships drive good people to do crazy things?

thoughts?


The answer to ALL your questions is YES.

It's possible for good people to do evil things when pressed. Rape is a peculiar crime. Sex is used in a violent way. It still may be possible to reclaim that person after they've crossed the line. Possible, but I don't know how likely.

ALWAYS report a violent crime. If the person really is good at heart, they stand a chance of getting the help they obviously need. If you are convinced this is a good person who's gone bad, speak on their behalf during the legal proceedings.

Allow the courts and the psychiatrists to do their jobs. Not reporting something like this only increases the chance of a repeat.
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#27
Quote by nebraskan
You bring up a very good point, and I will say this to you: There is no such thing as a bad person or good person, just people who either agree with society or don't.


That's actually a really interesting comment. Why do we call someone "bad" just because they don't conform to a set of arbitrary rules that we set? Is it because by not conforming to our "laws" they get an easier life and we resent that?
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#28
Well maybe thats what the word bad means.

If its not that, what does the word bad mean?

/philisophical comment of the day
#29
Quote by 7daycrisis
Do you have MSN? We gotta talk about the cover, my mic doesnt pick up the single notes on acoustic very well. Could you do the guitar?


Quote by 7daycrisis
Crap I dont have AIM
Well just record it and email it to me if you can

alex@winter.org.nz



What the F*CK????


That was so random, 7daycrisis, that I award you the Most Random Asshat award, 'cause you can be an asshat and you're random.


you get a free cookie with every award, too. *cookie*


Now, on topic....


Really, there is NO "bad" and "good". Such things are merely human creations, to express their limited moral beliefs. There are a whole bunch of those, i.e. good and bad, heaven and hell, even death and life.

In reality, nature doesn't recognise such opposites. For example: death isn't an ending of life, it's a continuation.

Such opposites are called Binary opposites.


*sh*t, I sound like I'm reading a book to y'all. I'm not)
Last edited by punk_isntemo12 at Oct 12, 2007,