#1
about a month ago i asked about some advice cuz of my nerves in my rock class.
now today there was a blues jam but i didnt play cuz i didnt bring my stuff in. there was an upright bass but it had no frets-i.e. dont know where things are on it.
but whoever didnt play today has to play on monday.

so anyway.

wat are some all around BLUES scales to look at? a link would b good if possible. but plz to none of the websites that i have to scavenge through links after links to find. just the direct link name plz

thanks to any1 who can help.
#2
There is the blues scale itself. Since I'm not the one who has to look it up, I'm gonna leave that to you.

There are also 1, b3, 5, b7 shapes to learn.

With that, you should be totally set to jam some blues. Just remember to look up the 12 bar blues structure.
Every atom belonging to me as good belongs to you
#3
try THE BLUES scale. look on here, theres like a million articles on it
#4
Quote by Kutanmoogle
There is the blues scale itself. Since I'm not the one who has to look it up, I'm gonna leave that to you.

There are also 1, b3, 5, b7 shapes to learn.

With that, you should be totally set to jam some blues. Just remember to look up the 12 bar blues structure.



ya we're learning that in classic rock now.
the I IV and V of the scale i thnk it is? maybe its the chord.
#6
Quote by Crazy Horse
ya we're learning that in classic rock now.
the I IV and V of the scale i thnk it is? maybe its the chord.

I IV I I IV IV I I V IV I V Actually

An example, Blues on C:
C7 F7 C7 C7 F7 F7 G7 F7 C7.
For long you live and high you fly
But only if you ride the tide
And balanced on the biggest wave
You race toward an early grave.


Ben Hamelech
#7
Quote by BassistGal
I IV I I IV IV I I V IV I V Actually

An example, Blues on C:
C7 F7 C7 C7 F7 F7 G7 F7 C7.


ya i know that. i was just stating what notes of the scale i got the pattern down somewhere. kinda easy to remember. and i got a chart of lots of keys and the I, IV and V of the key. so that will help .
#8
If this is just a beginner blues class, then I would say the blues scale is fine. If it's more advanced you should look into the I7 IV7 V7 chords and their scales (i.e. mixolydian, major pentatonic etc.) It also depends what kind of blues it is, if it's a slow Freddy Freeloader kind of deal, you might want to just walk a line, if it's a more up blues you could try riffing out somewhat. The problem with the blues scale is it tends to sound a little aimless when played over all the chords.

By the way, I'm assuming you're just playing over the standard twelve bar blues.
#9
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
If this is just a beginner blues class, then I would say the blues scale is fine. If it's more advanced you should look into the I7 IV7 V7 chords and their scales (i.e. mixolydian, major pentatonic etc.) It also depends what kind of blues it is, if it's a slow Freddy Freeloader kind of deal, you might want to just walk a line, if it's a more up blues you could try riffing out somewhat. The problem with the blues scale is it tends to sound a little aimless when played over all the chords.

By the way, I'm assuming you're just playing over the standard twelve bar blues.



its a classic rock class. not really specificly blues but we're learning about how blues was and the style of it. we're going to go and learn about other bands in the time people. Just right now we're learning about the blues.

i'm not if they style is what matters in the jam cuz all it was was "ok. wat key do u guys wanna play? ok C? ok cool" **jams in C blues**
but the thing is i dont know any blues scales nor understand how to make a scale into blues (i think some1 tried to explain it to me..idk)

all the preclass needed was beginning guitar.


i know i should use the certain scale and the notes in the scale. but i'm not sure like, wat notes to focus on to make it more defined and together then just playing random notes in the key.
#11
bassically make a bassline to keep up with the groove. but also know different scales and put them together for now and the future.
#12
Well, the basic blues scale is the minor pentatonic. If you can riff around a bit on that then you're pretty much golden in a simple rock situation. The best thing to do is to get the drummer to start a beat and then just jump in feeling out some notes and then eventually you'll fall into a groove. Adjust to what the guitarist plays and then just go with the flow from there. The key with jamming is communication, %80 of the time be staring at what the drummer is doing with his bass drum, high hat, and snare. Start locking in and reacting to that. You should also be looking to them for any kind of form you might have, as drummers are the form master. The other %20 of the time you should be looking at the guitarist to bounce ideas off of.
#13
thanks for the help but i get confused pentatonic. i have a list of the keys: C, G, D, A, E, B, F#, and C#
but then theres also A7 in the key of D
Gmin in the key of F
Dmin in the key of C
and at the top it says scales and modes.
im reading outa a note pad i had for leasons over the summer that i just recently found and i dont understand any of it.
i feel i've painted myself into a corner and using my bass as a bridge to get out...leaving the bass behind.
wenever i look at theory or hear about theory or wat things are or read about it...it confuses me and i mite as well b homer simpson staring at a donut drooling with his mouth wide open. i. just. dont. get. it.
#14
Okay, here's the basics:

A key is the amount of flats or sharps a certain song has. The keys are derived from scales. C has no sharps or flats, G has one sharp, D 2 sharps, A 3 sharps, E 4 sharps, B 5 sharps, F# 6 sharps, and C# 7 sharps. Those that you listed are all the sharp major keys. The order of sharps is as follows: F C G D A E B. This means that as you add sharps you add them in that order, G would have an F# D would have an F# and a C#, C# would have all of them.
Their relative minor is the sixth of each scale, 3 half steps down from the note. For instance, the relative minor of C is three half tones down from it: C-->B 1 B-->A# 2 A#-->A 3. Or C D E F G A<-- the sixth note. I'll explain what your specific examples mean later.

This works for any major key, transferring it to a minor key. If someone comes up to you and says let's play in A aeolian (jerkoff), all the aeolian means is minor. It's the sixth MODE of the major scale. (Sixth note, sixth mode there's a connection). To turn a major scale into a minor scale (i.e. C Major to C minor) all you have to do is flat the third sixth and seventh)

The A7 is probably referring to a commonly used scale in rock music: the mixolydian scale. The mixolydian scale is the fifth mode of the major scale, thus the major scale starting on the fifth note of the scale in the same key. So, the mixolydian scale of C is G to G no sharps no flats: G A B C D E F G. This is also the same thing as G major except with a flattened seventh, again, this works with any scale. Just flatten the seventh and you have the auto mixolydian.

A7 might also be referring to a diatonic seventh chord in that key. Don't panic! All diatonic seventh chord means is that each note in the scale has a seventh chord, which all the notes of fall into that key. This is a strict order that doesn't change with any scale: I ii iii IV V7 vi vii half dim. If you know roman numerals you know that means 1 2 3 4 5 6 7. If you know anything else about theory you'll know that the small letters represent a minor chord and the big numbers represent the major chords. The seven after the V is representing a seven chord, AKA the chord if the major scale was a mixolydian, AKA a major chord with a flat seven. The fifth of every scale always has a flat seven. Hey wait a minute! Didn't we say that the every scale started from the fifth note was the same as flattening the seventh of the fifth note? We did! (It's all connected). So by your example, A7 is the fifth of what key? D! Therefore our theory behind finding these things works.

Now I promised an explanation of your other examples. Now with your knowledge of diatonic chords and their relation to scales and modes do you think you know what they mean? Try to see if you can do it then read below (if I tell you everything how will you learn?)

G min is what in the key of F? G is the second of F therefore, remembering our diatonic chords we see the I ii<--- minor. So, G minor would be in the key of F and now you know why. D min is what in the key of C? D is the second of C, exactly the same as the last example.

I hope that cleared at least something up.

EDIT: Oh right your original question of the minor pentatonic. Well, the minor pentatonic is just derived from the minor scale but only using certain notes. (Five of them to be exact). In C the minor scale is C D Eb F G Ab Bb C. Now using the 1 3 4 5 and 7 of this scale you get the minor pentatonic so: C Eb F G Bb C. That's it!
Last edited by jazz_rock_feel at Oct 14, 2007,
#16
reply to jazz. it froze wen i tried to quote

i think i understand the half step whole step. is a half step only come from or to a sharp?
like C# to D is a 1/2 step and F# to G is a 1/2 step but B to C is a whole step and E to F is a whole step?

"If someone comes up to you and says let's play in A aeolian (jerkoff), all the aeolian means is minor. It's the sixth MODE of the major scale. (Sixth note, sixth mode there's a connection)." what does it mean by mode tho? i notice u mention it alot, does that basically the note of the scale?
if its a C7 its

so any (note letter)7 is a mixodylian so i take the 5th note of the C scale (which is G) and i can play a G major scale and still b in the C key? and u said G is just that but isnt F suppsoed to b sharped, but then u said before that theres no sharps and no flats...?

"A7 might also be referring to a diatonic seventh chord in that key. Don't panic! All diatonic seventh chord means is that each note in the scale has a seventh chord"
is what we're doing rite now in classic rock in the blues we're doing.
i think i have a hold of wat that means
in the blues we're doing its I, IV, V
so if its in the key of C i take C, F, and G
and the pattern of the blues is

I (C), IV (F), I (C), I (C)
IV (F), IV (F), I (C), I (C)
V (G), IV (F), I (C), V (G)
so basically whenever i see a diatomic seventh chord i split the 1 key (C) into sorta 3 different keys?
how do i know if it's a diatomic seventh chord? (is it always have the 7 next to the key letter? lol)

"The seven after the V is representing a seven chord, AKA the chord if the major scale was a mixolydian, AKA a major chord with a flat seven. The fifth of every scale always has a flat seven. Hey wait a minute! Didn't we say that the every scale started from the fifth note was the same as flattening the seventh of the fifth note? We did! (It's all connected). So by your example, A7 is the fifth of what key? D! Therefore our theory behind finding these things works."

confuses me. i can see that it loops around from the beginning. and i know the V u mean is the 5th note of the...major?....scale (or is it any scale) so if i see a C7 chord. i flat the seven. so instead of a B its an A#? or in general is the V always flat no matter what?

ok so starting a A7 on D would b the same as if i just flatted the G# making it a G? how do i know when to do that? or is it just whenever i feel its best to start on D of that instead of the regular A?

"G min is what in the key of F? G is the second of F therefore, remembering our diatonic chords we see the I ii<--- minor. So, G minor would be in the key of F and now you know why. D min is what in the key of C? D is the second of C, exactly the same as the last example."

o ok. so ii and iii you use minor scales while the I ect. u use major? so if i were to use (idk wen i would) I, iii, V i would use major scales for the root and 5th note of the scale but a minor scale for the 3rd note of the regular key's scale?

the rest i sort of understand. or atleast its understand able...maybe if i keep reading this i will realize more and more...i did just now cuz my computer froze so i had to redo my entire post. kflgjhdfgh

thanks for ur help. i appreciate it greatly
#17
I'll try and answer this in an order so as to build on one another. Here goes:

Quote by Crazy Horse
i think i understand the half step whole step. is a half step only come from or to a sharp?
like C# to D is a 1/2 step and F# to G is a 1/2 step but B to C is a whole step and E to F is a whole step?


You kind of half have it. A half step is... a half step. It's from any flat to a natural (E.G. Bb to B natural), any natural to a flat (B to Bb), any natural to a sharp (A to A#), any sharp to a natural (A# to A natural), or the two exceptions are E to F and B to C (notice how generally, you don't say E#, B#, Fb or Cb. They do exist, however, they aren't often used in practical situations). Don't ask me why those are only a half step apart, it's just something they did to be dicks. It makes it all fit into a perfect ickle octave and makes our entire architecture of theory stand, go figure.

So, by extension a whole step is any letter name to the next letter name (or the opposite) other than B to C and E to F. A to B is a whole step. Also note that any sharp to the next letter name sharp (or with flats) is a whole step. G# to A# is a whole step Ab to Bb is a whole step as well. Now with that knowledge:

Quote by Crazy Horse
What does it mean by mode though? I noticed you mentioned it a lot, is that basically the note of the scale?


Yes and no. A mode is a version of the major scale. The sixth MODE is the major scale starting from the sixth NOTE. This is less important for modes than actually knowing how each mode alters the major or minor scale. (E.G. Dorian is a minor scale with a raised 6).

Quote by Crazy Horse
So, any (note letter)7 is a mixolydian so i take the 5th note of the C scale (which is G) and i can play a G major scale and still be in the C key? And you said G is just that but isn't F supposed to be sharped, but then you said before that theres no sharps and no flats...?


Okay, forget that I ever connected the mode to the chord number. For now just think of them as a separate entity. The C7 chord is 1-3-5-b7. C-E-G-Bb. Understood? Then a mixolydian scale is (let's work this from the way I stated earlier; to alter the major scale as opposed the thinking of the number of the scale) the major scale with a flat seven. So yes, a G major scale is supposed to be G A B C D E F# G. Then flat the seven and you get G A B C D E F G. (Note: the G is the fifth note of the C major scale. Also note that mixolydian is the fifth mode (version) of the major scale. Therefore we can connect the mode (5) to what the note is the fifth of (G is the fifth of C therefore a G mixolydian shares a key signature with C). If you did not understand that in the brackets, entirely disregard it, the important thing to see is the alteration of the major/minor scale. Just know that if you see an x7 chord the prime scale to play is a mixolydian.

Quote by Crazy Horse
This is what we're doing right now in classic rock in the blues we're doing.
i think i have a hold of what that means
in the blues we're doing it's I, IV, V
so if its in the key of C i take C, F, and G
and the pattern of the blues is

I (C), IV (F), I (C), I (C)
IV (F), IV (F), I (C), I (C)
V (G), IV (F), I (C), V (G)
so basically whenever i see a diatonic seventh chord i split the 1 key (C) into sorta 3 different keys?
how do i know if it's a diatonic seventh chord? (is it always have the 7 next to the key letter? lol)


No. You have the blues progression correct. Usually it's all seven chords (x7, 1-3-5-b7) but, that's not diatonic seventh chords.
Let's split the phrase down, diatonic translates to "of the scale" seventh chords translates to "chords, with sevenths." So put that together we get "chords with a seventh, of the scale." What THAT means is, seventh chords whose notes all fit inside the scale. So let's look at C major. C D E F G A B C.
Now we need a seventh C chord that fits into C major. Easy, C major 7. (C E G B).
Now we need a seventh D chord that fits into C major. D major is D F# A C#. Those notes don't all fit into C major. But, if we flat the 3rd and the 7th we get D F A C. This makes the chord minor.
Now we need an E chord that fits into the C major scale. We find E minor: E G B D.
Now we need an F chord that fits into the C major scale. We find F major: F A C E.
Now we need a G chord that fits into C major. We find G7: G B D F
Now we need an A chord that fits into C major. We find A minor: A C E G
Now we need a B chord that fits into C major. We find B half diminished (Meaning flat 3, 5 and 7): B D F A.

Now look at the diatonic seventh chord order I gave you. I ii iii IV V7 vi vii half dim. Notice, that what chords we said (Cmaj7, Dmin7, Emin7, Fmaj7, G7, Amin7, B half dim.) match up, all hunky dory, with the roman numerals I gave you. Clear? Probably not! But moving on regardless.

Quote by Crazy Horse
confuses me. i can see that it loops around from the beginning. and i know the V u mean is the 5th note of the...major?....scale (or is it any scale) so if i see a C7 chord. i flat the seven. so instead of a B its an A#? or in general is the V always flat no matter what?


Yes it's the major scale I'm usually referring to, unless I specifically say otherwise. You seem to have this correct, except a small detail. Instead of the A# it's a Bb because you're FLATtening the seventh. The V is usually an x7 chord yes.

Quote by Crazy Horse
Ok, so starting an A7 on D would be the same as if i just flattened the G# making it a G? How do i know when to do that? Or, is it just whenever i feel its best to start on D of that instead of the regular A?


I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here... As far as I can decipher, you're trying to ask when you make the A to an A7. The answer being, always, theoretically. But, if you feel like throwing in an A major chord in the key of D go ahead. Maybe try and clear this bit up so I can answer better.
Quote by Crazy Horse

o ok. so ii and iii you use minor scales while the I ect. u use major? so if i were to use (idk wen i would) I, iii, V i would use major scales for the root and 5th note of the scale but a minor scale for the 3rd note of the regular key's scale?


You're sort of right here. The only problem you're making is that you're thinking of scales and chords as one thing. You need to separate the two, even though chords are based off of scales, they are only based off four notes of a scale and can't give you insight on the entire scale you can use. If you had I iii V7 I, you would use the maj one chord, minor three chord, dominant five chord (flat seven) and then the major one again. The scales you can use over these certain chords relate back into modes again, but don't worry about that right now, worry later.

I hope that made everything clear, but again, just holler for help.