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#1
Okay so, this may be the wrong thread.
But I don't see why everyone wants a 'metal' guitar...

All this, disconnecting the tone control and stuff, how high output you can get your pickups sacrafising all aspects of tone.

Guitars have been around for a LONG time, they don't make them with a tone control for no reason...

What's the big fad about metal? I never really got into it, id rather listen to something with real guitar, and I realise I might get flamed for saying so, but tbh metal is a no-brainer, and most of the guitar work sounds the same anyway...
#2
Everyone wants a metal guitar because thats what works for them. Higher output pickups, a Floyd Rose, and a thin neck are whats hot now (like the 80s). And you know when you disconnected connect the tone, its like having it at 10?
#3
Listen to some metal and some metal guitars through decent metal amps, then come back.
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#4
Have you actually asked yourself, what is the difference between Metal and Classic rock, or Blues, or punk?

When you can give a good definition of all of those (in your words) and compare them as to how they are all Oh so different then you can bash metal.
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#5
I know, but why would you always want it at 10...
Its like taking away 9 other tone possibilities so to speak...
I mean, yeah in some cases you're not going to need to touch the tone control,
But what's the point in not having it there? I feel half the contrast in my tone comes from the tone control...

But I don't see why everyone wants a high output pickup guitar... That's not good for anything other than 'metal'. Its not a very great tone in the first place IMO.
#6
Quote by Daveyh
I know, but why would you always want it at 10...
Its like taking away 9 other tone possibilities so to speak...
I mean, yeah in some cases you're not going to need to touch the tone control,
But what's the point in not having it there? I feel half the contrast in my tone comes from the tone control...

But I don't see why everyone wants a high output pickup guitar... That's not good for anything other than 'metal'. Its not a very great tone in the first place IMO.


Play a JEM then come back and try to state your argument.
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#7
People like Metal because it's the best ever, and nothing is or will ever be better.

As for the "Metal" guitar, they're most likely asking for a mahogany guitar, EMGs, 24 frets, a floating trem, and at an affordable price.
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#8
Quote by Daveyh
Its not a very great tone in the first place IMO.


That's just it.

It's your opinion.

Other's will have a very different opinion because their tastes are different.
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#9
people like metal guitars because they like metal music... its not a fad (besides maybe new stuff and glam) its underground music, at least the kind i like... no GOOD metal sounds the same and GOOD metal has real guitar........ its fine if its not your cup of tea but don't make fun of it just because you don't like it... and while i listen to other types of music too, metal can have some very talented guitar playing it.
#10
I play heavy music.

I use the tone control.

People want a guitar that's CAPABLE of metal. Not all of the best guitars in the world can reach that far. A fender strat can't. I know from personal experience. Metal guitarists play clean passages as well, and they might play other styles at home while not with the band.
#11
Well fair enough, I just don't see how people can get so into it when theres hardly any tone involved.
I've played a JEM, I did work in a music shop for a coupla years. Theyre okay but theres not much to them, smooth neck doesn't leave much in the way for feeling.
#12
Quote by sashki
I play heavy music.

I use the tone control.

People want a guitar that's CAPABLE of metal. Not all of the best guitars in the world can reach that far. A fender strat can't. I know from personal experience. Metal guitarists play clean passages as well, and they might play other styles at home while not with the band.


No well I mean my strat can push out what I would imagine to be passable 'metal' tones through my JCM800. But I just don't see the attraction to it, using lots of gain, doesnt leave much room to be creative.
#13
Quote by Daveyh
Well fair enough, I just don't see how people can get so into it when theres hardly any tone involved.
I've played a JEM, I did work in a music shop for a coupla years. Theyre okay but theres not much to them, smooth neck doesn't leave much in the way for feeling.


IMO, a JEM is the best feeling guitar out there (6 strings). I've never played anything that played as easily as a jem, nor sounded as pronounced.
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#14
Quote by Daveyh
Well fair enough, I just don't see how people can get so into it when theres hardly any tone involved.
I've played a JEM, I did work in a music shop for a coupla years. Theyre okay but theres not much to them, smooth neck doesn't leave much in the way for feeling.

Well some people like that.

I don't understand why everyone's obsessed with Emma Watson. But 90% of all teenagers worship her.

Same with metal guitars. If you don't understand why people don't like them, that doesn't mean that they're bad. They just aren't the guitar for you.

Guitars are as varied and individual as the people playing them. Some people are like this, others are like that.
#15
hardly any tone? taking Lamb of God as a quick example, I don't care what the **** the "tone" sounds like, the riff in forgotten (lost angels) is hard and has incredible energy. That's what music is all about is energy. Why do you worry so much about tone when you can convey a feeling just by the way you play...?
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#16
Quote by kirkhammett09
people like metal guitars because they like metal music... its not a fad (besides maybe new stuff and glam) its underground music, at least the kind i like... no GOOD metal sounds the same and GOOD metal has real guitar........ its fine if its not your cup of tea but don't make fun of it just because you don't like it... and while i listen to other types of music too, metal can have some very talented guitar playing it.


I never made fun of it bud, I just said I don't get it.
No but either way, the principle from what I've seen/heard is to put a whole lot of gain and treble/bass on and thrash away at stuff. I don't really understand where the feeling comes into it..
#17
go listen to Opeth and then tell me there's no "tone involved" in metal
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#18
Quote by Daveyh
I never made fun of it bud, I just said I don't get it.
No but either way, the principle from what I've seen/heard is to put a whole lot of gain and treble/bass on and thrash away at stuff. I don't really understand where the feeling comes into it..


While that may be more prominent in todays metal, you need to look into a lot of metla made in the 80s.
#19
Quote by MadMudgeN
hardly any tone? taking Lamb of God as a quick example, I don't care what the **** the "tone" sounds like, the riff in forgotten (lost angels) is hard and has incredible energy. That's what music is all about is energy. Why do you worry so much about tone when you can convey a feeling just by the way you play...?


Lol no but if you take alot of the legendary guitarists for example, they have more feeling in 1 note than these guys do in a whole song. And that's not me dissing on lamb of god, but it just doesn't seem like theres a whole lot of feeling in it.
#20
Quote by CJRocker
While that may be more prominent in todays metal, you need to look into a lot of metla made in the 80s.


No I do know alot of metal from the 80s, assuming I'm thinking along the same lines you are. Most of what came from America was always a bit cheese-y for me, from thrash to anything else.

But I mean, people seem to have got lost in how fast you can play, or how heavy you can make things instead of concentrating on writing a good song.
#21
People like metal because its the best ever


no, people like metal because they think they're all badass but in reality they're just a bunch of pansy-ass posers. and because its easy to play.

theres no emotion in it other than "rawr i smolder with generic rage" go play Pink Floyd's "comfortably numb" solo with as much feeling as david gilmour and then we'll consider metal a relevant genre.
#22
Quote by RageAgainst...
go listen to Opeth and then tell me there's no "tone involved" in metal


I've heard opeth, you people seem to think I'm totally unknown to the whole scene haha.
Nah I saw em live, didn't impress me much. I mean it was intense enough to satasfy, but it's not something I'd see myself singing years later.
#23
Quote by whatadrag
no, people like metal because they think they're all badass but in reality they're just a bunch of pansy-ass posers. and because its easy to play.

theres no emotion in it other than "rawr i smolder with generic rage" go play Pink Floyd's "comfortably numb" solo with as much feeling as david gilmour and then we'll consider metal a relevant genre.


Exactly... more or less lol. I disagree that it's all 'easy' to play, and I disagree that everyone thinks they're bad ass

But exactly, no one seems interesting in writing music anymore, they just want to play hard.
#25
i dont really mind the guitars in metal, although i like other tones better. it is the vocals i cant stand.
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#26
Nah well, I mean the JEM seemed rather effortless for me, i didn't see any way to put what I felt onto it, it was just a case of you hold a note and it plays...
Which I s'pose is okay if you're into learning theory stuff which I know alot of you guys are.

But I don't see, assuming you're writting/playing music, why you would want a guitar that plays itself so to speak.
#27
metal can have tone and soul..... its just different type... in blues, a guitarist may do a long slow bend and it would be sad and considered soul... metal isnt sad like blues though, its aggressive and trys to project anger so shredding (not senseless shredding, but shredding in a musical sense) can be considered soul...also sometimes there are slow metal songs like fade to black by metallica that have the kind of "soul" your talking about
#28
Quote by zackk
i dont really mind the guitars in metal, although i like other tones better. it is the vocals i cant stand.


Yeah well that's down to taste I guess, I don't like it much either, the vocals.
I don't see much rhythem to them, but again that's down to taste.

But I don't see the attraction to cr*ploads of gain..
#29
Quote by kirkhammett09
metal can have tone and soul..... its just different type... in blues, a guitarist may do a long slow bend and it would be sad and considered soul... metal isnt sad like blues though, its aggressive and trys to project anger so shredding (not senseless shredding, but shredding in a musical sense) can be considered soul...also sometimes there are slow metal songs like fade to black by metallica that have the kind of "soul" your talking about


Well yeah, I guess. Metallica aren't really a good example, I can see where the emotion in their songs lies. I do think they're pretty commercial but you can see where they're coming from.

I'm more talking about real heavy stuff/shred. I don't see the point in being able to play fast if your songs don't mean anything to anyone?
#30
The reason people are bashing you for your post is because you're questioning their opinions. Go to the Classical guitar section and ask them: "Why would you want a classical/acoustic guitar? You can't play heavy metal with it!" and see their responses. It's because they like the tonal/crisp sound of an acoustic, that's why. Why do you like blues or jazz? It's because you like the flowing pattern of the music and the emotional and energetic flow of the sound.

Why do they like metal? Because it's bad ass, that's why. What's wrong with music that makes you want to jump your car over 8 helicopters for the 5 second thrill? I love it to death.
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#31
Taste in music is one of the most subjective things there is, and you're just a dumbass if you think that it isn't "real."

Or are you just trying to troll :\
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#32
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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#33
also this thread is sort of generic.. i mean theres like 1,000,000 little gay sub genres of metal... i personally like older stuff like metallica, iron maiden, death, morbid angel, judas priest, megadeth....... i mean, i can see your point if we're talking about lets say slipknot or some of these other new bands, but most older and some new metal is really good if u give it a chance... i recommend listening to a band called Death, old 80's death metal band... very good guitar tone and playing... rip chuck schuldiner
#34
Quote by *kas
Taste in music is one of the most subjective things there is, and you're just a dumbass if you think that it isn't "real."


I never said it wasn't real, and I realise how touchy taste in music is.
I said I don't understand why people want to listen to, what seems to me a main stream pile of mince with no feeling to it.
#35
Quote by Daveyh
No I do know alot of metal from the 80s, assuming I'm thinking along the same lines you are. Most of what came from America was always a bit cheese-y for me, from thrash to anything else.

But I mean, people seem to have got lost in how fast you can play, or how heavy you can make things instead of concentrating on writing a good song.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXQu3-8aZYM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuMmes0aaPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X7hr-Ky8tg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cGvzApDZKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JpQRUf8XE

Please, watch those. You just open up your mind, man. Just watch one, man, and you'll get hooked.

Metal fan or not, you can't deny the awesomeness of those songs.
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#36
Quote by whatadrag
no, people like metal because they think they're all badass but in reality they're just a bunch of pansy-ass posers. and because its easy to play.

theres no emotion in it other than "rawr i smolder with generic rage" go play Pink Floyd's "comfortably numb" solo with as much feeling as david gilmour and then we'll consider metal a relevant genre.
I'm sorry, did you just say Pi... oh dear, lawl. If you're going to try and bring up a good case argument against metal and present a counter example to it, then at least go with something like B.B.King or some Clapton, etc.


Anyway.


I don't get the fixation with 'metal' guitars anyway. Not because of any problem I have with metal genres (quite the oppsoite: I listen to just about every genre of music you care to mention, metal and all sub-genres of metal included), but this fixation people have that their guitar must be an Ibanez R-something, it must have EMG pickups, it must have 24 frets, it must have the thinnest neck physically possible, it must be all-black and have a ton of spikes and whatever... all that crap.

The truth is, any mahogany guitar with any humbuckers can play metal. EMGs are pretty **** for anything, no one particular brand is any better than another (materials and hardware make a guitar good or bad, not a headstock shape or logo), and how often do you really go up to the 24th fret anyway, really? Most of the time if you're working past the 20th fret you're into the land of "so high everyone's ears are bleeding and the tune is inaudible".
Of course the fact that metal started off being played mostly on single coils with just the amp's natural drive seems to go past many people's heads.


The genre isn't the problem. What they're playing isn't the problem. This mentality that only a certain set-up and certain image will work, is the problem.


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXQu3-8aZYM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cGvzApDZKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65JpQRUf8XE

Please, watch those. You just open up your mind, man. Just watch one, man, and you'll get hooked.

Metal fan or not, you can't deny the awesomeness of those songs.
The Megadeth one is good, though personally I prefer the newer, slightly more energetic version.

Other than that, those are not good examples to 'show off' metal...
Last edited by bokuho at Oct 13, 2007,
#37
Quote by whatadrag
theres no emotion in it other than "rawr i smolder with generic rage" go play Pink Floyd's "comfortably numb" solo with as much feeling as david gilmour and then we'll consider metal a relevant genre.




Yawn, oh was that a song? I fell asleep because it sucked too much.
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#38
Quote by kirkhammett09
also this thread is sort of generic.. i mean theres like 1,000,000 little gay sub genres of metal... i personally like older stuff like metallica, iron maiden, death, morbid angel, judas priest, megadeth....... i mean, i can see your point if we're talking about lets say slipknot or some of these other new bands, but most older and some new metal is really good if u give it a chance... i recommend listening to a band called Death, old 80's death metal band... very good guitar tone and playing... rip chuck schuldiner


I've heard some death, I've heard some of their stuff which wasn't too bad, and again I can see where they're coming from. A band called Testament too, they're pretty good.

Megadeth, Is a prime example of what I don't understand. He comes on, plays his songs and leaves again. Theres no emotion to it, just thrashing away, solo, end.
I'm a fan of Maiden, theyre a good example of why you do need a tone control, and why you can't say I want a 'metal' guitar, because their tone does vary.
#39
Quote by Daveyh
I never said it wasn't real, and I realise how touchy taste in music is.
I said I don't understand why people want to listen to, what seems to me a main stream pile of mince with no feeling to it.

Obvious troll is just too obvious.
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#40
ok real heavy band ... slayer.... very fast and thrashy.. solos are out of key and very fast and chaotic... but still, theres emotion .. a very pissed off, crazy, eat your face emotion but just because its loud fast and aggressive, and chaotic doesnt mean it doesnt have emotion... slayer has feeling ... btw what genre of music do u like?
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