#1
Okay, so I was reading the article on modes, but got a little confused when it got to modal chord progressions. If I am playing in Cmaj, but want to make a chord progression based off D dorian, would the progression be: d minor, e minor, f flat minor(e?), G major, A major, B minor diminished, C flat major, D minor? Or would you start with a D major? The D minor sounds right to me because the ii chord in C is D minor, or is there something I'm missing? Also, if that is right, what do I do with the f flat minor, wouldn't it be the same as and e minor?
Last edited by madmaestro at Oct 15, 2007,
#2
ok, modal progressions can be confusing... in fact, they're above my level, so i wont offer too much advice there.

However, i can help here-

D Dorian Chords

Dmin (min7)
Emin (min7)
FMaj (maj7)
Gmaj (_7)
Amin (min7)
Bdim (m7b5)
Cmaj (maj7)

Its easiest to take the chords from the parallel major and just re-order them
#3
EDIT: ^ +1

You would use D minor, E minor, F major, G major, A minor, B diminished and C major, the same as the C major scale, except that the chord sequence would tend towards the D rather than the C.

D Dorian consists of D, E, F, G, A, B and C, no Fbs or Cbs.
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#4
Quote by branny1982
ok, modal progressions can be confusing... in fact, they're above my level, so i wont offer too much advice there.

However, i can help here-

D Dorian Chords

Dmin (min7)
Emin (min7)
FMaj (maj7)
Gmaj (_7)
Amin (min7)
Bdim (m7b5)
Cmaj (maj7)

Its easiest to take the chords from the parallel major and just re-order them



Ok that makes more sense. In this case would the parallel major be C? And why wouldn't there be an F flat and C flat? I thought the Dorian mode and a Flat3 and Flat 7?
#5
yes, C major is what i have called the 'parallel major'

i say parallel as it contains the same notes.


you have got slightly muddled, but thats ok...

Dorian is R 2 b3 4 5 6 b7

this is how you will have to alter the D Major scale, to make D Dorian.

Everytime you see a scale written out in the degrees like above, it is relating to the major scale of that root.

hope it helps.
really, read the sticky again, it is useful
#6
Yeah, the article did say something like applying the flat 3rd to the new re-ordered, which had something like (in C major) an E minor AND and E major, so that confused me too - so I'm jsut sticking to the concept of the ionian chords, just re-applying the numerals.
#7
Quote by branny1982
yes, C major is what i have called the 'parallel major'

i say parallel as it contains the same notes.


you have got slightly muddled, but thats ok...

Dorian is R 2 b3 4 5 6 b7

this is how you will have to alter the D Major scale, to make D Dorian.

Everytime you see a scale written out in the degrees like above, it is relating to the major scale of that root.

hope it helps.
really, read the sticky again, it is useful



Ok this is getting closer to what I'm trying to find out. If you are starting a progression in D dorian, is the Root, D, going to be changed to major, seeing as you derive the mode from the major scale?
#8
u start with D minor, but i cba to work out the rest right now
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#9
the chords and notes for D Dorian and C major are the same. it's just that you would have a chord progression that "revolves" around the D minor chord. that would suggest the root of the progression as D min and create the Dorian sound.
#10
Branny has it right I think except that he said paraell major, which I think in that case would be D major not C major, I know what you meant though. I'd learnt that the parrell major is always going to be the roots notes major scale. ie. A minors parrrell major is A major. But thats just arguing semantics...
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Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#11
what i said is basically the same as loony said above, but i did not see his post. he is correct. i think it is easier to compare a particluar mode with its major or ionian counterpart. i think looking at every mode as a modified major key makes things more confusing for people new to the concept of modes.
Last edited by shreddyboy at Oct 15, 2007,
#12
Quote by Peanut1614
Branny has it right I think except that he said paraell major, which I think in that case would be D major not C major, I know what you meant though. I'd learnt that the parrell major is always going to be the roots notes major scale. ie. A minors parrrell major is A major. But thats just arguing semantics...


i dont think so NUTTER, C major is A minors parallel major.

parallel means the same thing displaced at a constant rate, which is the perfect way to describe modes and major/minors.

#13
Quote by branny1982
i dont think so NUTTER, C major is A minors parallel major.

parallel means the same thing displaced at a constant rate, which is the perfect way to describe modes and major/minors.



Thats relative major isn't it Or have I confused the terms? Or are they teh same? Leave me alone im tired Wiki will provide the answers...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_key

http://www.mibac.com/Pages/Theory/frames/ks/ParallelMajorMinor.html

w00t for the Nutter

And parallel the 2 things have the same gradiant or exact direction and can never touch, just like the keys of B major and B minor, same direction, B, but they wont touch each other.
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

Last edited by Peanut1614 at Oct 15, 2007,
#14
i think you may have confused them.

relative was the other term i was going to write, but couldnt think of it.

C major is C minors relative major.

They are related.... by this formula - R 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7


edit - although wiki sides with the nutter
#15
Quote by branny1982


edit - although wiki sides with the nutter


Wiki ftw Easy mistake to make, i thought i'd made it at first but Wiki revealed all. *Hail Wiki* Hmmm I might start a club for that... Nevermind ill stop hijacking the thread!
Quote by cakemonster91

*chuckle* A peanut. With a face.



Go to your staff paper and re-write this song a half step down so on the paper it'll be like you have a "C" just move it down to a "B#"




Know your theory, then play like you don't.

#17
Quote by branny1982
i dont think so NUTTER, C major is A minors parallel major.

parallel means the same thing displaced at a constant rate, which is the perfect way to describe modes and major/minors.



You're thinking of relative majors and minors. Parallel keys would be like C major and C minor, same key, different scale.
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#18
i am starting to question everything i thought i knew.



it's funny that i first questioned what OTHER people thought they knew

just a healthy denial phase i guess


STILL, how can 2 things that are different be parallel?
Y=X+1 & Y=X+2 are parallel linear equations... they are always the same distance apart.
G Major and G Minor are the same on 4 degrees (1 2 4 5) and a half step different on the others...

i'm going to start a musical revolution
#19
Quote by branny1982
i am starting to question everything i thought i knew.



it's funny that i first questioned what OTHER people thought they knew

just a healthy denial phase i guess


STILL, how can 2 things that are different be parallel?
Y=X+1 & Y=X+2 are parallel linear equations... they are always the same distance apart.
G Major and G Minor are the same on 4 degrees (1 2 4 5) and a half step different on the others...

i'm going to start a musical revolution

The roots are parallel (C Ionian, C Aeolian). The notes are relative (C Ionian, D Dorian)
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#20
I think it makes perfect sense to call C Major and C minor parallel scales and C Major and A minor relative scales.

Using you're parallel linear equation analogy (I hate maths, but I understand it)

Y=X+1
Y=X+2

Lets change that to
Scale=C+1 semitone
Scale=C+ 2 semitones

That would give you C# major and D major.
I just realised that doesn't prove my point. But it disproves yours.

Relative scales have the same notes, Parallel scales have the same root.
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#21
yeah, i'm not arguing it anymore...

what i was trying to say is that 2 things in parallel will always be the same distance away from each other.
therefore its funny nomenclature.

you could use those equations to prove it in music, maybe i'll draw it at work tomorrow....

i want to forget all this now