#1
Instead of going for an all-tube setup, couldn't we go with a tube preamp and a SS poweramp? Because the poweramp's supposed to amplify the signal only, while the preamp does the coloration? Just wanted to share this random idea that just hit me...
Quote by buckethead_jr
I didn't think they had metal in the 1790's

Quote by Guitarislife125
Copper is a metal

Quote by buckethead_jr
Ah, touche.
#2
Yeah that's a hybrid amp, like the Marshall AVT series and Randall's RH series
ohai little sig.
#3
BassTalk:

I saw you posting in the Engl thread a while back. Are you still considering buying the Engl E530? I highly recommend it! I think the Engl preamp is so awesome, you could put its output into a Marshall MG or Line 6 Spider, or whatever the most-hated SS amp there is, and it still would sound f*cking awesome.

If it works as a DI device, then it follows that if you amplify that signal with any lame-ass SS amp in its clean channel, it still oughta sound damned good. I think your reasoning is absolutely correct.

As a matter of fact, I still haven't tried the Engl's instrument output through my crappy old SS Crate amp yet. I'll try that tomorrow and mic the cabinet and see what it sounds like. I bet it sounds amazing, even through that POS little amp.
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Oct 18, 2007,
#4
Quote by BassTalk
Instead of going for an all-tube setup, couldn't we go with a tube preamp and a SS poweramp? Because the poweramp's supposed to amplify the signal only, while the preamp does the coloration? Just wanted to share this random idea that just hit me...


Nope, it wouldn't be 'better' but it can be done. Hybrids do that, and they aren't so great (the Vox Valvetronix are pretty good for what they are, mind you). Valve power amps are desirable because, when cranked, they give a lovely overdriven tone that is different to preamp gain. Most of the overdriven sounds you hear from older rock bands especially are from mostly power amp distortion.
#5
I just assumed that BassTalk was talking about using a separate preamp (Recto, Engl, etc.), and sending its output into any old crappy-sounding SS amp. I didn't think he was referring to hybrid amps.
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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#6
There would be some difference between running an all valve pre amp through an SS power amp and a hybrid amp (because hybrids generally only have one valve), but in the end you're still not going to be able to achieve the sort of cranked valve power amp sound because there isn't one
#7
Well, Denthúl, I respect your opinion, but I really beg to differ on this point. I'll try my little amp-miking experiment tomorrow, and post the results. Sure, an all-tube amp has the benefit of a tube power amp stage. But, this is similar to miking any quality amp, and sending its signal to a PA.
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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#8
I'm not saying it would be bad at all. What I'm saying is, it would sound very different. If you don't like/want/need power amp distortion, then maybe this would be better for you. But the tone will still be different.
#9
Gotcha, Denthúl. I still think the difference might be less than you may expect. I'm curious to know myself. It's 4:30AM here now, so I can't try it right now.
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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#10
It very well may be.

It's not something I'd be after trying, though - I love the sound of a cranked valve amp (and I don't have any way of doing it anyways xD). Shame I've only been able to get my JCM900 up to four before the neighbours complained

I'll be interested in hearing the results, though, if you wouldn't mind doing some clips?
#11
Well, not everyone's lucky enough to have a JCM900 to play through! Yes, clips, of course, if you don't mind auditioning my imperfect playing! Actually, there are two clips in my profile now that demos the Engl. Not very well, because it's drowned in reverb and effects.

Click my avatar to go to my profile with the MP3s online. The first two contain Engl E530 leads.

Track 17: "Fail" [Engl plus LOTS of G•Major effects]
Track 14: "Pink" [Engl plus LOTS of reverb]

This was all recorded direct, with no cabinet emulator. Will try to make a cleaner, more "clinical" demo tomorrow.

But, I think BassTalk's point was, (at least I think it was), could he just buy a good-sounding preamp, and then buy any crappy, high-Wattage SS amp to play gigs, and have a good sound come out of it, only much louder.
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Oct 18, 2007,
#12
Heh, I know... *Lucky sod* Though I did have to make a sacrifice on the guitar in order to get it. I'm still playing with something that's only just in good enough condition to be considered usable...

Oh, it's certainly possible, yeah. One of my friends just started gigging and he runs a Damage Control Womanizer through a Crate Powerblock and into a 4x12. I haven't heard it myself, but he says it sounds good.

And those clips sound quite nice. How is the Engl overall? What range of tones can you get out of it?
#13
Thanks for the kind words, Denthúl. The Engl has literally changed my life. I can't say enough about it. Rock Solid Amps has some great Engl E530 audio demos on their site. It goes from clean to ultra-gain. And everything in-between. Playing it in tandem with the G•Major FX unit I bought yesterday, I'm in heaven! Gotta go play more, now! Nice talkin' to ya, Denthúl!
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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#14
Quote by Denthúl
Nope, it wouldn't be 'better' but it can be done. Hybrids do that, and they aren't so great (the Vox Valvetronix are pretty good for what they are, mind you). Valve power amps are desirable because, when cranked, they give a lovely overdriven tone that is different to preamp gain. Most of the overdriven sounds you hear from older rock bands especially are from mostly power amp distortion.

that is because the vox has a low-voltage valve power amp stage placed before the main solid state power amp. so it gives you a certain degree of power amp drive, whereas the pre-amp is purely digital.
I like analogue Solid State amps that make no effort to be "tube-like", and I'm proud of it...

...A little too proud, to be honest.
#15
I was actually talking about separate preamps and poweramps, not an all-in hybrid amp. I know what hybrids are, but I always thought hybrids were more into modelling stuff (like the Valvetronix). What I'm looking at is an Engl E530 preamp (got me there, LEVEL4 bro) and a cheap poweramp to pair up. But tube poweramps are quite pricey, I was thinking of how an SS one would do. Thanks guys.
Quote by buckethead_jr
I didn't think they had metal in the 1790's

Quote by Guitarislife125
Copper is a metal

Quote by buckethead_jr
Ah, touche.
#16
And by "better" I was actually referring to the cost.
Quote by buckethead_jr
I didn't think they had metal in the 1790's

Quote by Guitarislife125
Copper is a metal

Quote by buckethead_jr
Ah, touche.
#17
I knew that's what ya meant, Bass! What guitar are you going to use? I keep thinking you're like a bass player or something—I don't know why . . .

But, hey! It's like half the price of a Recto or Prophesy, and I know for a fact that it has more gain than a Prophesy. It's a really, really great-sounding preamp. It definitely also does "blues-ey" if anyone was wondering. I tried its cleans tonight too. Maybe calling its cleans, "Fender Twin-like," is a hair over-the-top, but it sure sounded good to me.

Of course, it also does the sickest, sweetest, most-distorted, but-still-with-lots-of-tone metal leads ever. It certainly was the cure for all my tone and distortion ails (of which I had many).
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American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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#18
Quote by Denthúl
There would be some difference between running an all valve pre amp through an SS power amp and a hybrid amp (because hybrids generally only have one valve), but in the end you're still not going to be able to achieve the sort of cranked valve power amp sound because there isn't one


I've used this type of setup before, & they can sound pretty damn good, but the next level is using your amp head cranked as a pre-amp. THEN, you get it ALL. For anyone who hasn't read my rant before:
Mojave Scorpion cranked, speaker output to load box only (THD Hot Plate works).
Line out of Scorpion-->effects-->Crate Power Block. The Crate drives the cabs. This way, you get all the depth & dynamics along with the gain & sustain. Many amps now have line outs for direct recording/mixing, etc.
I'd love to try one of those Engl pre-amps, but I'll have to wait til NAMM in January. The Engl gear is some serious stuff!
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#19
Quote by LEVEL4
I knew that's what ya meant, Bass! What guitar are you going to use? I keep thinking you're like a bass player or something-I don't know why . . .



I have a cheap li'l PRS SE Singlecut guitar that I'll be using. It's the best I could afford, so please don't diss me around for it.

Aaah I'm serious5y GAS-ing for that preamp. Too bad I'll have to wait a long time to get that, since I'm a bit TOO low on funds atm. Oh, LEVEL4 bro, I have a question to ask you: is there a reverse delay setting on the G-Major? If so then could you record a clip of it? I've never quite used delays (or an such effects, for that matter =P) before, but this reverse delay effect interests me a lot.
Quote by buckethead_jr
I didn't think they had metal in the 1790's

Quote by Guitarislife125
Copper is a metal

Quote by buckethead_jr
Ah, touche.
#21
^ You're right about that one.
Quote by buckethead_jr
I didn't think they had metal in the 1790's

Quote by Guitarislife125
Copper is a metal

Quote by buckethead_jr
Ah, touche.
#22
Then the best thing to do is go and crank up a nice valve amp and see what you think. You'll be a different person when you walk away
#23
Someday, son, you will hear power tubes turned all the way up. Then you will understand.
Then you'll go change your pants.