#1
This relates to a band called Tool. I saw an interview where Maynard Keenan the singer for the band was talking about anger. He said that anger is an entirely different thing from hate and that while hate is a destructive force anger is an entirely different thing with entirely different emotional content. I recently changed a lot of the things in my apartment so all I had to listen to was Tool on my little MP3 player, it was all Tool all the time. I use that sort of anger he was talking about when I excercise and when I need to get something done, and I usually don't find myself to be hateful at all. But I found that I was becoming extremely hostile towards other people, like I was ready to knock someone at any moment. Especially now that I'm in better shape I find these urges a lot stronger. I find anger slowly turns to self righteousness and ultimately to hate. So I guess my question is do you think anger and hate can be separated? I think I have to cut myself off from that kind of music because it really makes me act in ways I don't like.
#3
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#4
Quote by Dreadnought
Yes, I do think they can be separated.


Well there's a theory that all conscious thought is derived from the social world. And if this is in fact true I don't think it's possible, because if you're angry that means it's at someone in the social setting. I'm not talking stubbing your toe and swearing, but long term moods.
#5
Anger is constructive, whereas Hate is destructive.

Anger is healthy, without it we wouldnt function properly.

When you work out with this percieved anger, it's more adrenaline then anything else.
Hostility towards others could stem from your sudden increase in adrenaline due to working out.

Not always the case, but could be one of the causes.

Generally speaking, though, Tool songs are usually about seeing past the anger and embracing it and learning how to better understand yourself and your own emotion.

Basically what I'm saying is that yes, anger and hatred are two VERY different emotions. So yes, they can be seperated.
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#6
Quote by jack_the_ripper
Maynard


Maynard's best work


wowwww...

And yes, I see them as separate things. I can be angry at my best friend, even though I love her.
Who dat?
#7
Quote by farcry
Well there's a theory that all conscious thought is derived from the social world. And if this is in fact true I don't think it's possible, because if you're angry that means it's at someone in the social setting. I'm not talking stubbing your toe and swearing, but long term moods.


Well you make a good point, but in my opinion this is like comparing Sadness and Depression.

Can you not be sad without being depressed? (Speaking long-term, of course.)

"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#8
It's not the newer tool that makes me feel like that, it's the older stuff. Lateralus and 10,000 days are definitely entirely different. The constructive part I don't really think that's anger, it seems like something else, more like resiliency and determination because I get that when I'm working out or playing hockey or snowboarding or what not.
#9
Quote by farcry
Well there's a theory that all conscious thought is derived from the social world. And if this is in fact true I don't think it's possible, because if you're angry that means it's at someone in the social setting. I'm not talking stubbing your toe and swearing, but long term moods.


I'm most usually angered at a situation, such as one in which I am helpless and defeated.

In my mind, hate and anger are two VERY distinct things.
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#10
Quote by Dreadnought
I'm most usually angered at a situation, such as one in which I am helpless and defeated.

In my mind, hate and anger are two VERY distinct things.


I'd describe that as frustration, not anger.
#11
Quote by farcry
It's not the newer tool that makes me feel like that, it's the older stuff. Lateralus and 10,000 days are definitely entirely different. The constructive part I don't really think that's anger, it seems like something else, more like resiliency and determination because I get that when I'm working out or playing hockey or snowboarding or what not.


Well there are definetly more hostile songs the further back you go when it comes to Tool. Undertow and Opiate are both fairly hostile. At the same time though, the lyrics are very open to interpretation. So everyone takes something a little different away from them.

For instance in the song Jerk-Off. He says "...I should just play god, and shoot you myself."

I, personally, see this as him being frustrated with the situation he's in, but not actually voicing hatred towards the person. More of a satire.

Someone else on the other hand, may see that as 100% hatred.

It's all based on how you view it.
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
Last edited by Dylan-19 at Oct 18, 2007,
#12
Quote by farcry
I'd describe that as frustration, not anger.


As far as I'm concerned, frustration is a form of anger.
My God, it's full of stars!
#13
how about hooker with a penis.

if I'm the man then you're the man and he's the man as well
stick that ****ing finger up your ass.

that one seems pretty hostile but it's more of an exception.


and dreadnought, if you are experiencing long term frustration at being unable to change a situation do those emotions not change into hostility, they do for me and I don't like it at all. Sometimes it feels like a rage I can't help, my dad has it and I think that's where I get it too.
Last edited by farcry at Oct 18, 2007,
#14
Quote by Dreadnought
As far as I'm concerned, frustration is a form of anger.


It is, just the same as disappointment is a form of sadness, and being excited is a form of happiness.
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#15
Then I think it is up to the threadstarter to become a bit more pedantic with his definition of anger.
My God, it's full of stars!
#16
They're are totally different concepts although not mutually exclusive, anger is more a feeling of frustration while hate is a feeling of intense dislike really although anger can lead to hate, and so on they can both be seperate, for example i'm angry the post service striked last week and messed up some letters i was getting but i don't hate them.
#17
Quote by farcry
how about hooker with a penis.

if I'm the man then you're the man and he's the man as well
stick that ****ing finger up your ass.

that one seems pretty hostile but it's more of an exception.


He's saying this to a young man who is criticizing his work, saying he "sold out to the man"

He's making a remark that he cannot sell out to the man, because he IS the man, as is the young critic. So instead of pointing the finger at him, he should just keep that sort of thing to himself.

Of course he doesnt say that in such a polite way
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#18
oh I know what it's about I was more commenting on the phrasing of his comment, but I think you know what I meant anyhow.
#19
Either way, I think to sum it up a little better I would say

Anger is frustration and understanding. As Draken said, the post office went on strike, thus messing up some of his letters, however he understands the matter and does not hold a grudge against the post office.

Hatred is frustration and a complete lack of caring for the person/object of your hatred.
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#20
Quote by Dylan-19
Either way, I think to sum it up a little better I would say

Anger is frustration and understanding. As Draken said, the post office went on strike, thus messing up some of his letters, however he understands the matter and does not hold a grudge against the post office.

Hatred is frustration and a complete lack of caring for the person/object of your hatred.

hate's not always frustration though, sometimes it's cool and calculated hate which is much worse really.
#21
Quote by Draken
hate's not always frustration though, sometimes it's cool and calculated hate which is much worse really.


lol yeah, this is true.

Ok maybe frustration was a bad choice

Hatred could be seen as intensified anger where you would go as far as to think/act on malicious emotions.
"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#22
Quote by Dylan-19
lol yeah, this is true.

Ok maybe frustration was a bad choice

Hatred could be seen as intensified anger where you would go as far as to think/act on malicious emotions.


i'd say like i said before it's more like intense dislike which can both be derived from frustration and anger or from careful thought and calculation.
#23
Quote by Draken
i'd say like i said before it's more like intense dislike which can both be derived from frustration and anger or from careful thought and calculation.


Well, personally I'd say intense dislike is sort of short coming in terms of describing Hatred.

In their purest form, love and hatred are supposed to be the extremes of both ends of the spectrum of emotion.

I do understand what you're saying, though, and I do agree with you

"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#24
Quote by Dylan-19
Well, personally I'd say intense dislike is sort of short coming in terms of describing Hatred.

In their purest form, love and hatred are supposed to be the extremes of both ends of the spectrum of emotion.

I do understand what you're saying, though, and I do agree with you




well i am over-simplifying but that's mainly because i'm rather tired, still this thread has been great for some good honest debate, not the usual dross you get in the pit.
#25
I just think Mynard thinks he is "art" which is just bull****. so MJK=Bull****

I like APC though......
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
#26
Quote by Draken
well i am over-simplifying but that's mainly because i'm rather tired, still this thread has been great for some good honest debate, not the usual dross you get in the pit.


Yeah, I agree Quite a nice change of pace.

Quote by GoodCharloteSux
I just think Mynard thinks he is "art" which is just bull****. so MJK=Bull****

I like APC though......


To each their own, I suppose.

Although you should try looking under the surface of some Tool songs.
Surely if you like APC and dont consider them to be "art" then you may enjoy Tool.

"As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of human existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of mere being..."


~ C.G. Jung
#27
Quote by GoodCharloteSux
I just think Mynard thinks he is "art" which is just bull****. so MJK=Bull****

I like APC though......


well what's Lateralus? If any heavy music is going to be art, it's that album.