#1
I'm looking for really dissonant scales for cool-style jazz. Right now I'm working with the diminished scale and I really don't know what chord to use behind the bb7. Do I just use a diminshed 6? Furthermore, being relatively new to jazz, I was wondering how and when it is appropriate to use certain chords like m7, M7, 7, half-diminished, diminished, etc.?
#2
How about a diminished chord? 1 b3 b5 bb7

You can use those chords whenever you want as long as it sounds good. Do you know about chord progressions?

Edit: I think you can delete the other thread. Edit it but select 'delete'
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#3
Man, just get yourself some books. You don't really have much idea right now.
They're aren't any cool "jazz" scales. You need a good working knowledge of
major and melodic minor harmony for starters. Then diminshed, whole tone, and
harmonic minor. That will cover about all of it.
#5
Quote by blue_strat
^ And the modes of harmonic minor.


they're not nearly as important as the ones he mentioned, though.
#6
Thanks for the input. Yeah, I know there isn't any jazz scale; scales are just orders of notes, what matters is how you use and sequence those notes that make it jazz. I guess thats more or less my question, how do you phrase notes in jazz. I know there is alot of chromticism, the guitar, when playing background, should avoid the root and fifth but other than that I'm clueless about playing jazz.
In regards to Prime, I do know about chord progressions.
#7
Thats the thing - with the exception of modal jazz (fun to explore, but not what gets you gigs as a jazzist) scales are less important than chord tones. Try to see 13th chords instead of scales; this may seem like a strange method until you get used to it.

With regards to phrasing - listen. listen. listen.

The number of guitarists who expect to be able to convincingly play jazz without putting in the listening time is appalling. You will not sound right if you do not clearly know the sounds of the master. Buy, download, obtain, whatever you have to do to build a collection of jazz albums that you regularly listen to.
#8
Any suggestions? Right now I'm listenig to some Charles Mingus, a little Miles Davis and some John Coltrane.
#9
Quote by HopeLeaves_35
In regards to Prime, I do know about chord progressions.

Well then you can use those chords whenever it's diatonic, and you know its diatonic from your knowledge of chord progressions. Or, seeing as it's jazz (though I'm no Jazz player), use them whenever you want!
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#10
Yeah that's why I was asking when is it appropriate to use what chords. Jazz is crazy in that they'll play almost whatever, or so I'm told.
#11
Ok then, it's appropriate whenever your ear tells you it's appropriate. Thats a really good rule for every genre
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#12
You'd be surprise how often people forget that, myself included. Sometimes I find that I try to, I'm not really sure what, but I tend to give more thought than necessary into the music.
#13
Quote by HopeLeaves_35
Any suggestions? Right now I'm listenig to some Charles Mingus, a little Miles Davis and some John Coltrane.


I love me my Mingus, get lots and lots of that.
Look into finding some Charlie Parker for your bebop fix too.

After that, it's what you want to play - there really is too much variety.

Hit up icebergradio.com and listen to Jazz Classics (or the Right Note if your into more modern sounds); when something comes on that you really likie, check who it is.


If you need a list of good guitarists to check out I've got one in another thread I can find.
#14
I like the guitar in jazz but surprisingly not as a standout instrument. I'm happy just comping and every now and then embellishing a bit but not overtly. But the guitarist list would be nice, thanks. Form what I've heard, I tend to lean towards the "cool" jazz, and stuff by Jobim. Nice, mellow stuff.
#15
There are more, but:


Django
Charlie Christian
Freddy Green
Tal Farlow
Barney Kessel
Herb Ellis
Jim Hall
Charlie Byrd
Hank Garland
John McLaughlin
Johnny Smith
Joe Pass
Wes
Lenny Breau
James Blood Ulmer
John Scofield
Howard Alden
Bucky Pizzarelli
John Pizzarelli
George Van Eps
Bireli Lagrene
Stochelo Rosenberg

I've bolded the ones I feel are really important for you to focus on listening to. They're all great, though.
#16
If you go through most Jazz books, the one thing they will emphasize in example
after example, lick after lick, study after study, is the ii-V-I progression. It's the
heart of Jazz music. Learn it. Play over it. That should be your starting point.
You can practice almost all concepts over that progression.

I've gotten a bunch of Jazz material recently -- Levine's Jazz Theory, Jazzology,
Encyclopedia of Jazz, Linear Chord Harmony. They all give lots of examples of
the Jazz language. Jazzology has about the best section of basic studies to work
on.

Before you can get into them, you really should at least have a good working
knowledge of the major scale all over the neck and they're all in standard notation.
#17
you can use it over dominant 7th chords. just go up one half step above the root and play the diminshed scale there. for example play an F diminished scale over an E7.
#18
Quote by ouchies
you can use it over dominant 7th chords. just go up one half step above the root and play the diminshed scale there. for example play an F diminished scale over an E7.


Yup. You can also use it from any of the chord tones of a dominant7b9... other than the root.

example: E7b9

play a diminished from
G#,B,D,F

you can play it over a standard E7 to give it the b9 sound
shred is gaudy music
#19
Quote by Nick_
There are more, but:


Django
Charlie Christian
Freddy Green
Tal Farlow
Barney Kessel
Herb Ellis
Jim Hall
Charlie Byrd
Hank Garland
John McLaughlin
Johnny Smith
Joe Pass
Wes
Lenny Breau
James Blood Ulmer
John Scofield
Howard Alden
Bucky Pizzarelli
John Pizzarelli
George Van Eps
Bireli Lagrene
Stochelo Rosenberg

I've bolded the ones I feel are really important for you to focus on listening to. They're all great, though.


I think you should bold Charlie Christian as well.

#20
Quote by confusius
I think you should bold Charlie Christian as well.



And Lenny Breau
He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt.
He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would fully suffice.


Remember: A prudent question is one half of wisdom.

Click.
#21
I can only bold so many ...


As much as I love Breau's playing, he's a niche player - study his technique for sure, but after you've got a good grasp on the basics. Christian I feel was certainly innovative in bringing guitars to the front by electrifying the things and playing solos but he was emulating horn players of the time and you might as well just skip the middle and listen to the horn players.


By all means listen to everyone on that list. The bold is just my recommendation for who to make sure you get.