#1
I recently sold my nylon-string classical because I didnt like the way that nylons feel. I prefer the sound and feel of steel strings. But most steel string acoustic necks are so damn tiny near the bridge that I cant even manage a F chord or a A chord without unwanted muting. I know there are wide-neck acoustics out there (like the Epiphone EF-500), but theyre expensive and I cant afford that so I need a cheapo alternative. So I've decided I want to buy a cheap 12-string and use it as a 6-string by just taking off the little strings.

Would there be any problems with doing this? Can any reccomend a cheap 12-string? I've read that the Rogue RA-100D is a great, cheap 12-string but since I cant find them anywhere I guess they've been discontinued.
#2
could also go for a hollow body electric, they have wider necks usually, i play a 12 string acoustic, so I got a hollow body because of that (and they just sound so awesome)
#3
i just got a rogue twelve string from musicians friend for 99 dollars, free shipping sounds good too
ibanez rocks
#4
my hands are at least as big as jimmi hendrix' were, and i can play perfectly on even a kiddy guitar without unwanted muting, its just technique, using a 12 string as a 6 string is a terrible idea
#5
turinbrakes is right. It's just a technique. I have some fatass fingers and I can 8th note jazz diminished chords at around 240 BPM.. Just practice the technique. Unwanted muting is a breakable barrier for anyone. 12 strings are too cool to take off the extras anyways. I wouldn't waste my money on it.
"We programmed in death...A thousand needles lie here to inject their lies."
#6
Quote by turinbrakes
my hands are at least as big as jimmi hendrix' were, and i can play perfectly on even a kiddy guitar without unwanted muting, its just technique, using a 12 string as a 6 string is a terrible idea



1. No exact measurment of Jimi's hands exist, so theres no way of knowing that. You're just trying to sound cool

2. If you're hands are "as big as Hendrix's" and you can play perfectly on a kiddie guitar, then you're obviously lying.

3. After I posted this, I looked around the net and read a few articles on the subject. Apparently, using a 12-string as a 6-string is a great idea for people with big hands, and thousands have found success this way.

So stop trying to sound cool, because youre failing miserably at it.
#7
Why don't you look at guitars that have thicker necks first?

Seagull guitars have a very wide neck comparatively; its nearly as thick as a classical guitar. I loved the one I had for finger picking.

Gear:
Partscaster/Tele into a bunch of pedals, a Maz 18 head, and a Z Best cab.
#8
Quote by roamingbard13
Why don't you look at guitars that have thicker necks first?

Seagull guitars have a very wide neck comparatively; its nearly as thick as a classical guitar. I loved the one I had for finger picking.



Because those tend to be expensive. If money wasnt a problem, I'd go buy a Epiphone Masterbuilt EF-500 today. But with the holidays coming up, I'm on a tight budget. That's why I'm looking for a cheap 12-string, such as a Rogue or something equally cheap.

My girlfriend's brother has a nice Yamaha 12-string sitting in his closet that he never plays. But the bastard wont sell it to me
#9
You probably don't want to hear this...but why not wait then?

Why waste $150 or $200 right now when you could save that money for something nice later?

Besides that, Seagull has some very nice models between $300 and $450...which is less than that Masterbuilt I believe.

Gear:
Partscaster/Tele into a bunch of pedals, a Maz 18 head, and a Z Best cab.
#10
I know what you mean. I know I'd be better off waiting. But I'm hurtin reeeeeal bad for an acoustic. After getting my tattoo, holiday presents, and paying off student loans I dont think I'll have any money to spend for a while (if I'm not in debt on top of that)
#11
My 12 string was set up as a 6 string when I got it.I have big hands and I know what you mean.It played great and I thought that might be a common practice among musicians.I changed the strings back to 12 because I already have four 6 strings.
#12
Quote by MUSTBRUSH
My 12 string was set up as a 6 string when I got it.I have big hands and I know what you mean.It played great and I thought that might be a common practice among musicians.I changed the strings back to 12 because I already have four 6 strings.



Cool, maybe you could answer something for me then. I've heard that when using the 12 as a 6, since the strings are spaced more, it can make the guitar sound boxy and compressed. Just something I read in a harmony-central review (for the Epi EF-500). You ever notice anything like that?
Last edited by SuburbanCowboy at Oct 26, 2007,
#13
^ It might sound compressed because the guitar is designed to be played with the tension of 12 strings, not 6 strings.

Just purely conjecture though.

Gear:
Partscaster/Tele into a bunch of pedals, a Maz 18 head, and a Z Best cab.
#14
i really don't know for sure... so this is all speculation... but here's my $0.02

although i think it could be easier for you to play on a 12 string if you have big hands, i still don't think it's a great idea. i definitely think that with practice you'll have no problem. it's not about the guitar, it's about your technique. you're kind of looking for an easy way out. whether or not thousands of people have done this means nothing to me. it's still an easy way out. don't take the easy way out. work on your technique. practice. practice. as someone above said, there are guitars (such as seagulls) that are manufactured with slightly wider than average nuts. this would be a great option. if you can't afford one, i also agree that i wouldn't waste $100-200 on something until you can afford what you really need. as for 12 strings guitars not sounding superb as 6 string guitars (and this is the part i'm speculating on), i would guess that 12 string guitars might tend to be made of thicker wood to support the added tension. if this is the case, it takes more to get the body of the guitar vibrating than normal. perhaps one of the resident luthiers can shed some light on this.

in the end, my advice to you... find a 6 string guitar with a wider nut.
#15
I'd also second working on technique. I mean if you just go for the wider neck then thats going to be the only guitar you will be able to play, your going to struggle to play any other guitar.

And i agree that seagull is probably the best option. The only other thing I can think of is to buy a yamaha FG720-12 i think it is. Rogues are going to be crap, get a yammy instead if you must.

And also if you do get the 12 string thing doen. Your going to need to get it set up. The truss rod in a 12string will be adjusted for a fair bit of extra tension, so you will need to adjust them to compensate for the lack of pressure. The smaller tension could affect your action. So your going to need tos pend money getting a 12 string setup anyway....
#16
Cool, maybe you could answer something for me then. I've heard that when using the 12 as a 6, since the strings are spaced more, it can make the guitar sound boxy and compressed. Just something I read in a harmony-central review (for the Epi EF-500). You ever notice anything like that?


I was amazed by the sound of my 12 when I first played it with just 6 strings.It sounded better than any of my real 6 strings.It now sounds awesome with 12.I really think it has alot to do with the quality of the guitar to start with as I was comparing it to my not so expensive 6 strings.I had no problem at all playing it with just 6 strings.
#17
I was under the impression 12 string guitar's necks weren't any wider than their 6 string sisters? Was I wrong?
Let me tell you about heartache and the loss of god
Wandering, wandering in hopeless night
Out here in the perimeter there are no stars

Out here we is stoned
Immaculate.
#19
Quote by roamingbard13
^ Yes.


Let me tell you about heartache and the loss of god
Wandering, wandering in hopeless night
Out here in the perimeter there are no stars

Out here we is stoned
Immaculate.
#20
Hi mate...being practically minded just measured the fret width and neck width near the bridge on a martin 6 and a simon and p 12....they are about the same. Also tried frettting both plus got my 20 year old yamaha (which was always a bugger) and that was ok too! Reckon some of the advice above is good ie don't waste you're money but practice and strengthen your fret hand up...and it will work out
#21
Quote by johnos
And i agree that seagull is probably the best option. The only other thing I can think of is to buy a yamaha FG720-12 i think it is. Rogues are going to be crap, get a yammy instead if you must.

And also if you do get the 12 string thing doen. Your going to need to get it set up. The truss rod in a 12string will be adjusted for a fair bit of extra tension, so you will need to adjust them to compensate for the lack of pressure. The smaller tension could affect your action. So your going to need tos pend money getting a 12 string setup anyway....


Agreed. A 12 string will actually have a lot more tension on the neck due to the doubled up strings, and the truss rod is adjusted accordingly. Remove half of those strings and the neck is going to want to pull back away from the fretboard. It could go far enough to cause the fretboard to become convex, in which case you'll have a buzzing, annoying thing to deal with. Guitars are designed to have the number of strings on them that they came with from the factory. A mandolin needs 8, a banjo 4 or 5, an acoustic 6 string...well, you get the idea.
#22
Hmm.. cancel the plans for the whole 12-string thing. I was in a local shop yesterday and played a Taylor C-series (forgot the exact model). Oh my GOD I was in heaven! Hands down the best acoustic I've ever heard. I also played a handful of Guilds and Martins in the shop, but this Taylor had the best tone I've ever heard in my life. And it even has a 1-3/4" nut width. I could play things on this guitar that I didnt even know I could play. Only problem... it's $1900.

However, the shop said they would order me a Epiphone Masterbuilt EF-500R if I wanted. It has the same exact nut width as the Taylor, which is perfect for me. Does anyone know how the Epi sounds in comparision to the Taylor?
#23
I'm not sure what Taylor you're talking about, since I've never heard of the C series. Are you talking about the GC series? If thats the case, then the guitars are different shapes. The GC is a concert-sized guitar, and the Epiphone I'm pretty sure is a dreadnought. The concert guitar is going to have a more balance tone, and will be best for picking and light strumming.

The Dreadnought will be more bassy, if thats a word. A lot of low end, even mids, and won't be very trebly.


Those Epiphone masterbuilt guitars sound very good for the price, but remember they're meant as a cheap cousin to Gibson's guitars. Obviously, when your comparing about $1000 or more price difference in guitars, there will (or should) be a lot of parody.

The Taylor guitar, IMO will sound much, much better. However, if $2000 isn't realistic for you (it isn't for me ) the Epiphone is still a solid guitar for the money.

Gear:
Partscaster/Tele into a bunch of pedals, a Maz 18 head, and a Z Best cab.
#24
Quote by roamingbard13
I'm not sure what Taylor you're talking about, since I've never heard of the C series. Are you talking about the GC series?



Whoops. I was talkin about this bad motherf*cker .

Now that I'm looking into the Epi's, I see that some people saying that Rosewood (sides) can muddy up a bit if you strum hard. But Mahogany will stay chimey and clear during hard strumming, since it has less low-end. This really goes for any acoustic I guess. I assume the Mahogany would be more similar to the not-so-bassy Taylor sound.
#25
construction plays a big part in sound, just like woods. plus different trees from the same species will sound diff as well. thats why so many guitars use the same spruce and mahogany/rosewood combo, but all of them sound different. So its hard to make assumptions, also the epiphone is a dready, the taylor you played is a Grand Auditorium, which will sound different to a taylor dready.

But it should be a decent guitar still
#26
get a washburn,, they have broad necks. if you get a twelve, leave the octave strings on