#1
k, may sound nerdy or w/e but yeh

i used search and i came up with nothing so...

Yeh just talk about interesting things in astronomy, post pics of cool things etc.

To start off on a topic...black holes, i find them v. confusing to be honest, like what happens to stuff that goes into them etc.

but discuss!!
Quote by hug a llama
Dude, if a title read "penis pics, come on in" I think about 93% of UG would still click on it.


Quote by Burpin'Worm
Nonsense. I'm telling you, nothing makes the fairer sex swoon like an extensive knowledge of siege weaponry and medieval battle tactics.
#4
Astronomy's pretty cool. I like to look up at the sky at night, in the wilderness, it's beautiful man. I wanna see some space stuff though, so im thinking of getting a telescope. and to spy on other apartments
#7
o/

Black holes are bonerific... there's so many mysteries about them (Where do they go, for one, if we were ever able to cross through one) My theory is that they go to an alternate dimension. Where the black hole acts like a vaccum, its alternate dimension sibling, the white hole, acts as a prostitute

I've never been able to comprehend the wormholes though... space is 3D, but in order for a worm hole to work, it needs to be on a 2d Plane

--\.......\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/....../------------------------
....\.......\________________________________________/....../
......\_______________________________________________/

Kinda like that... the red is the "floor" and the worm hole travels "under the floor" if you will. But I don't understand how it works in 3D space
#8
Quote by shreddin_frets
o/

Black holes are bonerific... there's so many mysteries about them (Where do they go, for one, if we were ever able to cross through one) My theory is that they go to an alternate dimension. Where the black hole acts like a vaccum, its alternate dimension sibling, the white hole, acts as a prostitute

I've never been able to comprehend the wormholes though... space is 3D, but in order for a worm hole to work, it needs to be on a 2d Plane

--\.......\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/....../------------------------
....\.......\________________________________________/....../
......\_______________________________________________/

Kinda like that... the red is the "floor" and the worm hole travels "under the floor" if you will. But I don't understand how it works in 3D space


i can kinda explain wormholes

you see time is actually curved, think of it as a 'U shape' for now a worm hole essentially cuts through the upper part of the U so skipping from one point to another, and as you are travelling faster than the speed of light, you essnetially go back in time as well! =D
Quote by hug a llama
Dude, if a title read "penis pics, come on in" I think about 93% of UG would still click on it.


Quote by Burpin'Worm
Nonsense. I'm telling you, nothing makes the fairer sex swoon like an extensive knowledge of siege weaponry and medieval battle tactics.
#9
My understanding was that black holes so super-dense in their mass that not even light can escape the gravitational pull (hence their being black). I think there's a time differential of some description in any situation involving stupidly high gravity. But the consensus, I think, is that anything that goes into a black hole simply gets crushed into particles, rather than travelling elsewhere in space/time.

I recommend a SF book called 'Sundiver' by David Brin, or the whole Uplift series. He's a physics graduate and goes into all of this in the writing. It's 'hard' sci-fi in it's truest form.
"Is it an ambulance? Is he Philip Larkin? So much power in so few words."
~The Observer

"A transcendant terrestris, a timeless behemoth, trapped like Sisyphus in the cyclical burden of his own genius."
~The Sun

"His a cant."
~The Independent
#10
^ yeh i heard that its just, wouldnt the black hole eventually become TOO dense that it cant consume anything more?
Quote by hug a llama
Dude, if a title read "penis pics, come on in" I think about 93% of UG would still click on it.


Quote by Burpin'Worm
Nonsense. I'm telling you, nothing makes the fairer sex swoon like an extensive knowledge of siege weaponry and medieval battle tactics.
#11
Quote by Taylz24
^ yeh i heard that its just, wouldnt the black hole eventually become TOO dense that it cant consume anything more?



nope
I wanna grow up to be a debaser
#12
Quote by shreddin_frets
o/

Black holes are bonerific... there's so many mysteries about them (Where do they go, for one, if we were ever able to cross through one) My theory is that they go to an alternate dimension. Where the black hole acts like a vaccum, its alternate dimension sibling, the white hole, acts as a prostitute

I've never been able to comprehend the wormholes though... space is 3D, but in order for a worm hole to work, it needs to be on a 2d Plane

--\.......\--------------------------------------------------------------------------/....../------------------------
....\.......\________________________________________/....../
......\_______________________________________________/

Kinda like that... the red is the "floor" and the worm hole travels "under the floor" if you will. But I don't understand how it works in 3D space


Doom FTFW!
#13
Quote by bart munch
nope


would it grow then? or just continue to get denser and denser?
Quote by hug a llama
Dude, if a title read "penis pics, come on in" I think about 93% of UG would still click on it.


Quote by Burpin'Worm
Nonsense. I'm telling you, nothing makes the fairer sex swoon like an extensive knowledge of siege weaponry and medieval battle tactics.
#14
Quote by Taylz24
^ yeh i heard that its just, wouldnt the black hole eventually become TOO dense that it cant consume anything more?

If the big bang theory is true, all the matter in the universe was once contained in a sphere about the size of a marble.


EDIT: Yes, it would just get denser and denser. I think g-forces of that magnitude shatter particles into their subatomic fragments, and subatomic particles don't strictly have a mass at all (most of the relative mass of an atom is unaccounted for).
"Is it an ambulance? Is he Philip Larkin? So much power in so few words."
~The Observer

"A transcendant terrestris, a timeless behemoth, trapped like Sisyphus in the cyclical burden of his own genius."
~The Sun

"His a cant."
~The Independent
Last edited by mud at Oct 27, 2007,
#15
Quote by mud
My understanding was that black holes so super-dense in their mass that not even light can escape the gravitational pull (hence their being black). I think there's a time differential of some description in any situation involving stupidly high gravity. But the consensus, I think, is that anything that goes into a black hole simply gets crushed into particles, rather than travelling elsewhere in space/time.

I recommend a SF book called 'Sundiver' by David Brin, or the whole Uplift series. He's a physics graduate and goes into all of this in the writing. It's 'hard' sci-fi in it's truest form.

Yes, but just because light can't escape doesn't mean it simply vanishes from existence, that's physicly impossible if my knowledge is correct. And yes, the gravity in a Black Hole is so strong it can (and will) rip anything it comes close to to shreds, but what if we were to come up with some type of extremly resistable element that is impervious to the effacts of such gravity? Now I know he who enters is ****ed for all eternity, because the radio waves would be cut off so there would be no contact whatsoever. Anyways I'll think about this more... I've run out of things to say right now =P

Anyways with the light thing. Say you travel faster than the speed of light, time is supposed to reverse right? What if you travel exactly the speed of light. Would time stand still until you slowed down below the speed? That question just came to me when I was trying to make a visual for myself with the whole wormhole thing. Now I know (or supposably it does) Time "slows" as you get to higher speeds, it supposably reverses after you pass the speed... I think I just answered my question...

Hell, time could have stopped while I was posting this but we'll never know will we =P
#16
Quote by Taylz24
would it grow then? or just continue to get denser and denser?



Sizewise they don't grow because they are supposedly singularities, ie. a one dimensional point without size, and the prevailing theory is that they do just get denser, at the centre of the galaxy there is supposed to be a superdense black hole. keep in mind that most theories on black holes are just theories and we really know very little about them, this is aggravated by the theory that the closer you get to a black whole the weirder the laws of physics become until newtonian physics and everything derived from that starts to break down. Time is distorted, up is down, dogs and cats living together, jews and arabs in perfect harmony, that sort of thing.

Well except for the last part.
I wanna grow up to be a debaser
#17
Quote by shreddin_frets
Yes, but just because light can't escape doesn't mean it simply vanishes from existence, that's physicly impossible if my knowledge is correct. And yes, the gravity in a Black Hole is so strong it can (and will) rip anything it comes close to to shreds, but what if we were to come up with some type of extremly resistable element that is impervious to the effacts of such gravity? Now I know he who enters is ****ed for all eternity, because the radio waves would be cut off so there would be no contact whatsoever. Anyways I'll think about this more... I've run out of things to say right now =P

Anyways with the light thing. Say you travel faster than the speed of light, time is supposed to reverse right? What if you travel exactly the speed of light. Would time stand still until you slowed down below the speed? That question just came to me when I was trying to make a visual for myself with the whole wormhole thing. Now I know (or supposably it does) Time "slows" as you get to higher speeds, it supposably reverses after you pass the speed... I think I just answered my question...

Hell, time could have stopped while I was posting this but we'll never know will we =P


in response to the radio contact thing, if we were to invent an infared-type radio or a radio that works off any type of radioactive wave (we might already have them, i dont know :S) then we could still communicate as there have been studies that have shown that radioactive waves don't actually get sucked into blackholes, that what my teacher said atleast =\

as for the light thing, its v confusing, you raise a good point, but yeh i think time would stop still if you travelled at exactly the speed of light. But on another light point, as you may or may not know, light CAN have mass, does this effectively mean that light would gain speed as it comes towards an object with a gravitational pull? Just a thought. Also would light move faster on a nuetron star (v. high gravity) than on earth?
Quote by hug a llama
Dude, if a title read "penis pics, come on in" I think about 93% of UG would still click on it.


Quote by Burpin'Worm
Nonsense. I'm telling you, nothing makes the fairer sex swoon like an extensive knowledge of siege weaponry and medieval battle tactics.
#18
Quote by Taylz24
in response to the radio contact thing, if we were to invent an infared-type radio or a radio that works off any type of radioactive wave (we might already have them, i dont know :S) then we could still communicate as there have been studies that have shown that radioactive waves don't actually get sucked into blackholes, that what my teacher said atleast =\

as for the light thing, its v confusing, you raise a good point, but yeh i think time would stop still if you travelled at exactly the speed of light. But on another light point, as you may or may not know, light CAN have mass, does this effectively mean that light would gain speed as it comes towards an object with a gravitational pull? Just a thought. Also would light move faster on a nuetron star (v. high gravity) than on earth?


Well, if light didn't have mass, it could go through a black hole and escape, so it must have some sort of mass in order for it to be sucked in.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think radiowaves are a form of light, so unless the radioactive waves you speak of send a signal far to a safe zone where the radio waves don't get sucked in, it just might be possible.

And now that I think of it (if the White Hole theory is correct), The Black and White would have to be connected in some way (well... duh).... So I dunno it possible, although it's highly unlikley we'll be on the other side of a black hole anytime soon in our lives

And with the light/time thing... If you stick it on a graph it will end up at zero at some point, so time would infact stand still. There's so much weird time stuff going through my head right now... I'm lost in my head now o.O lol
#19
Quote by shreddin_frets
Well, if light didn't have mass, it could go through a black hole and escape, so it must have some sort of mass in order for it to be sucked in.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but I think radiowaves are a form of light, so unless the radioactive waves you speak of send a signal far to a safe zone where the radio waves don't get sucked in, it just might be possible.


you are correct, they are light, but for some reason they dont get sucked in (apparently)
but anyway, im going to bed, daylight saving has f*cked me over and its now 3am :S
Quote by hug a llama
Dude, if a title read "penis pics, come on in" I think about 93% of UG would still click on it.


Quote by Burpin'Worm
Nonsense. I'm telling you, nothing makes the fairer sex swoon like an extensive knowledge of siege weaponry and medieval battle tactics.
#20
Quote by Taylz24
you are correct, they are light, but for some reason they dont get sucked in (apparently)
but anyway, im going to bed, daylight saving has f*cked me over and its now 3am :S


Haha, it's coming around noon time here... anyways g'night...

anybody else wanna have a sophisticated conversation with me?
#21
yeah astromony pwns. there's so much out there that we didn't even think of yet. I'm excited to see if there's another solar system with life on it and stuff.
#22
Quote by tjbhdeath squad
yeah astromony pwns. there's so much out there that we didn't even think of yet. I'm excited to see if there's another solar system with life on it and stuff.


Well, even though we don't have any around here (Actually, I think they found some type of Bacteria on Mars.. I'll check up on it later though), It's highly unlikley that there isn't any other life. Actually, it seems downright impossible for us to be the only life in the universe. Even if we did find a single shred of life somewhere on a different planet, it would be probably one of the biggest discoveries known to man (We probably already have found life somewhere else, actually. The Govvies like to keep these things top secret so people don't snowball it into something worse)
#23
Yay!!! Here you go kiddies:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071026/sc_nm/universe_defect_dc

O and if any of you want to study high energy astro physics-- such things as black holes, blazars, quasars etc. Yale offers a 'free' graduate and Ph. D course. The field is so young and new that the school pays for 3 years of your learning and the research company you work for pays the other 3 years... obviously you have to be doing well grades wise. O and this is on top of a BA in Natural Sciences, commonly known as the BS degree. BS is not intended as a joke, it really is known as that. There is also an entry test... if you are interested, check out the Yale astronomy page, then choose high energy astro physics. If you are interested in other fields, check those out too, I just don't know if its paid for already.

As for wormholes, they are essentially bridges in time. Much like electricity archs between two metal poles... a wormhole is said to be able to be 'made' in order to transport things throughout the universe by bending time in a manner by which the departure point and the arrival point are on top of each other.

EDIT: So, obviously arrowhead shapes can't be done... .

Like this:


Point A--------------------------------------------------------------Point B ---distance 50K Light years

Wormhole is activated:

Point A-------------------------------Point B --- distance is closing

In a 3D view it would look like this: A broad arrowhead shape.... Ignore the zeros... the hypens are what u wanna look at.

A-0000000000-B
000-00000000-
0000-000000-
00000-0000-
00000000-

Eventually, as the space between the two places gets so small, time will lessen... it will essentially be 'squeezed' out of the equation and what took ten minutes to walk before can be instaneously done by squeezing time out of the equation.


Like so:

--- smaller arrowhead... umm... the time is essentially squeezed or compressed into less space... again ignore 0's, looks at -'s

A-0-B
000-

Your end result:

--- literally no space between the two segments. The only time experienced will be the time it takes you to walk into the wormhole. It may feel just like any other
you've taken in your life, but instead of falling off that cliff, you somehow appear at
the bottom safe from harm.

AB

The theory arose from the concept, there is no shorter path between two points than a straight line... but as one can see, there clearly is-- nothing, no space.

It's very interesting, and we'd never need cars again, but people could warp on into your bedroom while your whacking it or banging a girlfriend, or boyfriend, lol. Possibly, they may just reserve it for space exploration.
i*[∂/∂t]*Ψt = -[∇^2]/2*(Ψt) (unitless form)


Almost as convenient as Wikipedia, but infinitely more hipster, Dover.
Last edited by hethamulburton at Oct 27, 2007,
#24
Quote by hethamulburton

It's very interesting, and we'd never need cars again, but people could warp on into your bedroom while your whacking it or banging a girlfriend, or boyfriend, lol. Possibly, they may just reserve it for space exploration.


If they ever DO get the theory to work, it would take a very substantial amount of energy to do so, if we manage to create an artificial one at all. Not to mention, because of the very nature of a worm hole, it would be unbelievably dangerous to start making them pop up all over Earth.