#1
You guys have any good tips on playing some superfast licks...
but keeping it not so obvious that you are playing scales?

I usually play with a lot of atrocious bends and broken tempos
in my solos...i want to do some improvs to open up some future
sets.

I don't know if you guys understand my question..in case you dont....

Do you have any good techniques on playing/writing fast solos that
don't sound so formulated. I dont know very much about using
intervals for tension and release. Thanks.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Oct 28, 2007,
#2
I know what you mean. Make up what you play as you play it. Don't plan ahead, and surprise yourself as you go along.

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It's not a fox,it's a wolf.
#3
just improvise more, you'll get some things out of it that are more original. Try playing the most uncomfortable thing possible you can do. Make it comfortable, and see if it sounds good, i've gotten some things out of that.
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#4
Force yourself to not just play a bunch of repeated/recycled licks you've heard a million times...slow down at first and just let your mind/emotion bend you into a newer more fresh direction. Go out of your comfort zone and learn new things.
#6
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
You guys have any good tips on playing some superfast licks...
but keeping it not so obvious that you are playing scales?

I usually play with a lot of atrocious bends and broken tempos
in my solos...i want to do some improvs to open up some future
sets.

I don't know if you guys understand my question..in case you dont....

Do you have any good techniques on playing/writing fast solos that
don't sound so formulated. I dont know very much about using
intervals for tension and release. Thanks.


so you want a formula for creating licks that dont sound formulated?
shred is gaudy music
#7
Oi... the arrogance^...


Anyways, I wish I could help you there (was looking for the answers to your thread)
"grateful is he who plays with open fingers" - Me

┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

DO NOT CLICK HERE!
#8
Quote by Outside Octaves
Oi... the arrogance^...


Anyways, I wish I could help you there (was looking for the answers to your thread)



sarcasm, not arrogance

I was really just pointing out that what is being asked is in conflict with itself.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Oct 28, 2007,
#9
I got 2 ways to work a way around it, they both worked for me, but the first didn't give me the results exactly as i wanted them..

the first one's a bit of a cheat from some perspective, you keep playing up n down scales (bits at a time, not the scale as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 etc but like 1 2 3 4 3 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 or something) not in an exact formula, but just moving around like that..
you could get cool stuff out of it, but to make it less predictable, just take notes out of the scale, an easy example is to play a couple of notes up, twice, and the second time you flatten or sharpen one note.. like when you encounter a 5th on your way up, you first play the 5th and the second time a b5 to add tension, you can do the same with pretty much all notes.. everytime you do this, you change the scale, if you play a major scale over a major chord, but play a sharp 4th you get a lydian scale, this gives you a different feel, but it can get just as boring, sure you can change to this scale, but then throw in notes out of this one..

if you're wondering what my idea of playing formula's and patterns in this way looks like, i mean something like starting from a note in (or out of) the scale or arpeggio, going up a certain intervall, like a 5th, and do the same from a second start, which lies a different (or the same) intervall from the first, like a third (so you go up a 5th from the 3rd) and repeat again from a note that lies an intervall like the 3rd in this example from the second starting point (4th note) so a pattern you might see is
1 5 3 7 5 9 7 11 (you can take the 11th as a 4th from the 1 to stay in one place)

additions to this are the use of strange scales, like bebop minor or major, and panturavi, todi etc. and ofcourse changing speeds, keep some variation in the way you divide your notes over the beats, switch between even divisions, and uneven ones

if you do this, you'll sound less predictable, but you're still playing mathematic formulas and a little boring stuff etc. so you're still stuck to something, limiting you.. if you break loose from this, you'll have so much possibilities you never thought of before, that sound twice as great..
i think i've mastered it over time, i did it through learning to sing.. not singing songs, but guitar lines, up to a level where you can sing all lines and melodies the first time i heard them, this made me so much more able to play what i hear in my head, i used to sing the lines in my head, not minding the pitch.. so that way your fingers are doing part of the playing.. but when you hit accurate pitches in your head (practised by singing out loud) all playing happens in the head and the fingers just follow that, not the other way around.. joe pass used to teach this way too.. i guess that was what kept me motivated because it did take some while before i could actually sing every note in harmony to a chord i played.. bit it certainly did pay off, and now back to playing inpredictable, it came naturally, cuz it are the fingers that just follow scales when they don't know where they're going, but through this way they did.. you could try it, or just stick to the first ..
1953 Epiphone zephyr
1988 PRS custom 24
1960 Moon oct. mandolin
Last edited by Funkicker at Oct 30, 2007,
#10
Quote by GuitarMunky
so you want a formula for creating licks that dont sound formulated?



What are you talking about?...

Im referring to techniques that can be applied to scales to create
solo's...that contain notes that are not going to telegraph the note
that will fall next.

I was looking for techniques that players use that create tension, release
and will help me improvise for more than 30 seconds without it becoming
boring.

Im not looking for fomulas. I was just looking for tips in applying scales in
a practical way for playing with speed.

I can play at my own pace and play fast, but lately I have been playing in
a place i found that i really like. The players there are very experienced.
It has inspired me to step my skills up. I am looking for ways to improvise
with the pentatonic scale (for example) ...and not sound like im playing a
keyboard that only contains 5 keys.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#11
Quote by Funkicker
I got 2 ways to work a way around it, they both worked for me, but the first didn't give me the results exactly as i wanted them..

the first one's a bit of a cheat from some perspective, you keep playing up n down scales (bits at a time, not the scale as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 etc but like 1 2 3 4 3 2 3 4 5 6 5 4 or something) not in an exact formula, but just moving around like that..
you could get cool stiff out of it, but to make it less predictable, just take notes out of the scale, easy example is to play a couple of notes up, twice, and the second time you flatten or sharpen one note.. like when you encdouter a 5th on your way up, you first play the 5th and the second time a b5 to add tension, you can do the same with pretty much all notes.. everytime you do this, you change the scale, if you play a major scale over a major chord, but play a sharp 4th you get a lydian scale, this gives you a different feel, but it can get just as boring, sure you can change to this scale, but then throw in notes out of this one..

if you're wondering what my idea of playing formula's and patterns in this way looks like, i mean something like starting from a note in (or out of) the scale or arpeggio, going up a certain intervall, like a 5th, and do the same from a second start, which lies a different (or the same) intervall from the first, like a third (so you go up a 5th from the 3rd) and repeat again from a note that lies an intervall like the 3rd in this example from the second starting point (4th note) so a pattern you might see is
1 5 3 7 5 9 7 11 (you can take the 11th as a 4th from the 1 to stay in one place)

additions to this are the use of strange scales, like bebop minor of major, and panturavi, todi etc. and ofcourse changing speeds, keep some variation in the way you divide you're notes over the beats, switch between even divisions, and uneven ones

if you do this, you'll sound less predictable, but you're still playing mathematic formulas and a little boring stuff etc. so you're still stuck to something, limiting you.. if you break loose from this, you'll have so much possibilities you never thought of before, that sound twice as great..
i think i've mastered it over time, i did it through learning to sing.. not singing songs, but guitar lines, up to a level where you can sing all lines and melodies the first time i heard them, this made me so much more able to play what i hear in my head, i used to sing the lines in my head, not minding the pitch.. so that way your fingers are doing part of the playing.. but when you hit accurate pitches in your head (practised by singing out loud) all playing happens in the head and the fingers just follow that, not the other way around.. joe pass used to teach this way too.. i guess that was what kept me motivated because it did take some while before i could actually sing every note in harmony to a chord i played.. bit it certainly did pay off, and now back to playing inpredictable, it came naturally, cuz it ar4e the fingers that just follow scales when they don't know where they're going, but through this way they did.. you could try it, or just stick to the first ..



Thanks a million...This really helped me

Ive cut and pasted your post, printed it out, and placed it
in my book of scales.
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
#12
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
What are you talking about?...

Im referring to techniques that can be applied to scales to create
solo's...that contain notes that are not going to telegraph the note
that will fall next.

I was looking for techniques that players use that create tension, release
and will help me improvise for more than 30 seconds without it becoming
boring.

Im not looking for fomulas. I was just looking for tips in applying scales in
a practical way for playing with speed.

I can play at my own pace and play fast, but lately I have been playing in
a place i found that i really like. The players there are very experienced.
It has inspired me to step my skills up. I am looking for ways to improvise
with the pentatonic scale (for example) ...and not sound like im playing a
keyboard that only contains 5 keys.


I guess I misunderstood your question.

I think what you need is more controll over your improvising. Rather than practicing scales for speed, try working on phrases and melodies.

alot of people that focus on speed have a hard time improvising, becuase they are not practicing musically. While they are focusing on the aspect of technique, they are ignoring all of the other things that make a solo good. (im not suggesting that you shouldnt work on speed... just that its good to balance it with everything else)

I would suggest getting a grasp on the fundamentals. melodies, phrasing, feel , timing, rythem, dynamics. Then you have something to work with that you can be creative with. (you can learn these from songs that inspire you and/or practice them individually as well)

Playing something thats unpredictable in many ways is about being creative. When you have control over the fundamentals, you can be creative with them and come up with something that is unpredictable to others.

You might want to try to create some interesting melodies and phrases that have syncopated rythems. work those up to speed. That will give you some ammo in the unpredictability department.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Oct 28, 2007,
#13
Quote by Washburnd Fretz
Thanks a million...This really helped me

Ive cut and pasted your post, printed it out, and placed it
in my book of scales.

very flattering

i just re-read it.. (and took out some typo's) and i gotta say, im a little surprised you actually understood it
1953 Epiphone zephyr
1988 PRS custom 24
1960 Moon oct. mandolin
#14
*sings* i love the taste of unperdictable licks. a loop theres a loop theres a loop, uh. a loop theres a loop theres a loop, uh. a loop theres a loop theres a loop theres a loop theres a loop......

sorry lol distracted. anyone know that one?

take a drum loop, a guitar pro session, a cd, anything and sit for hours improving over the same thing and you'll discover things you never have seen and really improve your imrov.
#15
Play around with intervals and phrasing;

e|-17p12---------------17p12---
B|----------17p12---------------17p12--
G|-------------------14-------------------14--

Interval: 4ths
Phrasing: 16th notes. But, this is a 5 note pattern. Playing this over 4/4 will sound interesting.

Other licks that can be made to sound interesting are what I call "bridge licks". Say you're playing in B minor and you wanna get from pos. 7 to pos. 12. I have a few licks ready that involve some frantic sliding and other nonsensical crap that eventually gets my hand to that high octave. Once I get there I'll play the theme or something else melodic to temporarily step away from the weridness.
#16
Quote by Washburnd Fretz

Im not looking for fomulas. I was just looking for tips in applying scales in
a practical way for playing with speed.


The problem is (from the sound of it) that you're overturning rocks looking for
a solution, when its right out in the open.

You said your bends are atrocious and your tempos are broken. Those problems don't get better with speed, they get worse. The roots of your problems are most
likely whatever is you're doing at slow speeds. The nature of what you do with
scales and notes doesn't really change at higher speed. What basically happens
at higher speed, is your playing intensity goes up. When the intensity goes up,
you lose control. Why you lose control is most likely because you didn't have a lot
of it in the first place (and there's many varieties of control: note selection, rhythm,
bending, muscle tension...).

You probably don't want to hear any of this and its likely you'll just try plugging
away at fast speeds looking for that magic trick to speed (It's what I would have
done at one point!), but "a problem playing at speed" is almost always more
simply stated as "a problem playing".
#17
^ wel spoken, i agree
1953 Epiphone zephyr
1988 PRS custom 24
1960 Moon oct. mandolin
#18
Quote by edg
The problem is (from the sound of it) that you're overturning rocks looking for
a solution, when its right out in the open.

You said your bends are atrocious and your tempos are broken. Those problems don't get better with speed, they get worse. The roots of your problems are most
likely whatever is you're doing at slow speeds. The nature of what you do with
scales and notes doesn't really change at higher speed. What basically happens
at higher speed, is your playing intensity goes up. When the intensity goes up,
you lose control. Why you lose control is most likely because you didn't have a lot
of it in the first place (and there's many varieties of control: note selection, rhythm,
bending, muscle tension...).

You probably don't want to hear any of this and its likely you'll just try plugging
away at fast speeds looking for that magic trick to speed (It's what I would have
done at one point!), but "a problem playing at speed" is almost always more
simply stated as "a problem playing".


Everything in my post was referring to improvs


My *atrocious bends* are not bad...I just say that for aggressive bending.

My tempos are not broken in the sense that I can not stay on a set rhythm
because i can. My *broken rhythm* comes from the fact that I play with feeling.
I play what i feel and it just comes out. I can play forever and build phrases
that express how i feel. I just dont play at a superfast pace for more than a few
seconds very often. Im am not normally a shredder. I just wanted some tips on playing some a solo for a few mins and not have it sound boring. My control is there. I have no probs there. I just record myself every week and listen to myself and I thought my fast 3-5 mins improvs (shred) sounded a bit dull after the 30 second mark. I dont lose control. In my opinion I was loosing improvisational feeling.
I just wanted advice for moving out of a box sound to a sound that is interesting
the whole way through. I wanted tips on applying scales in a fashion that will
not make them sound like 3 recycled licks when i just shred for 5 mins.

you kinda took that thing and ran away with it....lol
I bet Charlie Brown's teacher's name was Mrs.Hammett
Last edited by Washburnd Fretz at Nov 4, 2007,