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#1
Back around '99/2000 was when I was first stepping foot into the world of extreme metal. Even though I didn't realize that they already had lots of fans, I thought bands like Sepultura, Napalm Death, Carcass, Obituary, Cannibal Corpse, etc, were pretty underground. There were abound 10 dudes where I grew up who knew about stuff like Suffocation, Malevolent Creation, and Deicide. I was 14 when I bought Carcass's Necroticism in '99, (and I bought that album by mistake 'cuz my friend showed me Swansong but I couldn't remember the name of the album, just the band name.) I didn't really have internet access back then, and even if I did, it wasn't like it is today. I was finding out about brutal new music through the liner notes and thank you's of other bands that I liked! Napalm Death's Words From The Exit Wound, CoF's Cruelty And the Beast, Morbid Angel's Domination, Obie's Cause of Death and Slowly We Rot, Deicide's Once Upon The Cross, Terrorizer's World Downfall... hell, even Testament's The Gathering! That was underground to me because NO ONE around me knew anything about that stuff. My friend Andrew and I were constantly questing for brutaller and heavier music... he was even further into it than I was, as I was still majorly hooked on Metallica and Megadeth (still am), but the point is this...

I was in a store the other day that DID NOT carry that sort of music when I was first introduced to it and as I'm walking through the N's I spot an album that caught my eye. Nailbomb's Point Blank. At BEST BUY. And my jaw dropped. All I could think about was the times I desperately wanted to buy Show No Mercy or Hell Awaits and looked up and down the S section finding only Seasons and Live and a myriad of crappy new metal bands (which later became known as "nu-metal"). Here was an album that 6 or 7 years ago I would've killed to get my hands on. When I was 16 I was hugely into Sepultura and Soulfly and heard about this CD called Nailbomb and the only time I ever got to hear it was when I was visiting my uncle in Seattle- his bass player roommate had it in his stack of CD's

I guess I'm bringing this all up 'cuz I'm wondering something...
Is this trend of extreme metal just another trend like Nu-Metal? Will there be a death/black metal plague similar to the glam-rock plague that happened in '92? Will it just get too big and too extremely popular and die out like all the other trends? Basically, will extreme music become so out of hand that it all looks like a big joke? It's certainly looking that way to me at times... some of these guys wearing Darkthrone t-shirts look like they just threw away their AC/DC cd's in the trash five minutes ago!

Are there any elder statesmen of metal here on UG who've seen this happen like I have???
#2
I think its gaining popularity, but i doubt such inaccessible music will ever become mainstream, i am however worried about spinoff poseur bands of the genre ruining it, but even this seems unlikely....
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#3
Wow I wish I could find metal CDs at my corporate music stores.

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#4
I thought seeing Old Man's Child and Nailbomb CD's at Best Buy already proved that it is mainstream...

I know it ain't gonna be outselling Nicklback anytime soon, but it's still in the 'stream...
#5
Sweet. Metal should be more mainstream—maybe they'll start making the money that they richly deserve.

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#6
I don't care if it's a joke or not, I'll still like it. Unless, of course, I get made fun of for liking it...JK!
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#7
I bought some Burzum albums off amazon and got some bootleg crap. talk about 'kvlt' I ordered some Belketre and Mutiilation off ebay and got the legit albums, and they are truely amazing with the artwork
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#8
It's cause of the interwebz...you won't see it on TV, hear it on the radio, or notice anything on the streets but go onto the internet and It's a shock all the stuff you'll find and how much ppl are actually into it.
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#9
like hardcore shows at churchs... heavyst music out of my town. **** it sucks
#10
Quote by ChurchNSkate
Sweet. Metal should be more mainstream—maybe they'll start making the money that they richly deserve.


I don't know if I agree with that... it seems that the best metal is made when no one is paying attention to it. In the Nineties, when it was "uncool" to like/play metal is when some of the coolest stuff came out... like Nevermore's first four albums, the first half of Opeth's career (but they're just as good today), Pantera, Low thru The Gathering-era Testament, Slayer's Diabolous In Musica (which is my personal favorite Slayer), Cannibal Corpse's Bloodthirst, Death's Sound Of Perseverence and the whole Gothenburg scene with At The Gates, In Flames and Soilwork... all of that stuff is Top Shelf metal and laid the groundwork for so many to come, for so many carbon copy ripoffs. I think $ is actually the #1 cause of metal decay... even though I love their music still to this day, but Metallica is the prime example of that...
#11
^I don't think it's a trend, but probably just a rise in overall popularity. And Metallica is not the typical metal band in the sense they moved far into the mainstream. Most metal bands make a fraction of that, and I still believe music is there driving force. I think there are also levels of mainstream, from the most unknown black metal band to the metal mainstream to the crap on MTV, and as far as I know, most metal still isn't on MTV.

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It's cause of the interwebz...you won't see it on TV, hear it on the radio, or notice anything on the streets but go onto the internet and It's a shock all the stuff you'll find and how much ppl are actually into it.


+1, myspace, downloading etc is responsible for a popularity boost I think
#12
While I love meeting people who share the same passion for black metal as I do, I would not like it to be like glam rock in the 80's. Of course, I doubt extreme metal would ever get that big. You've got melodeath, Cradle of Filth, and Dimmu Borgir and that about as mainstream as it is. After that you have non-melodic death metal and real black metal, both of which don't have the mainstream appeal to make it that big. So while you might have more posers claiming to be kvlt or brutal they'll never actually threaten the real genres I don't think.
#13
No-ones mentioned Arch Enemy making it to number 84 in the Billboard charts?
That's a pretty big step in metal.
#14
I found a copy of a Xasthur/Leviathan split in my local Fnac shop.

I got Yob's The Unreal Never Lived from the same place for only five euros.

I visited two different shops in the same mall - one had a Wolves in the Throne Room cd, the other had a lot of different stuff, including a cd by a band called Spaceboy which doesn't even have a Metal Archives page.

Yes, this was a mall in Western Europe. At the same time, when I watched MTV's 'metal show' I only saw about three or so actual metal clips, and one of them was power metal.

I mean, come on. How can there be an extreme metal plague, like glam or nu? Unless we're talking about extremely watered-down stuff like later COF and Six Feet Under, this kind of music simply does not have mainstream appeal. Show it to most people unfamiliar with it, and they'll have trouble recognising it as music! People want something with a simple beat, a catchy melody, a hook they can sing along to. Lyrics they can relate to - getting dumped, falling in love, going to the club, etc. Preferably in the confines of 3-4 minutes. Why exactly would your average joe like an 8-minute track with six different riffs, with tempos ranging from blindingly-fast blastbeats to slow-as-molasses, with grunted lyrics about being devoured by the decomposing undead? Or a 12-minute track which is all buzzsaw tremolo-picked guitars, with some gloomy minimalist keys thrown in to boot, with some piercing shrieks about Satan/winter/paganism/nature/how much Christianity sucks?

I mean I understand where you're coming from - I came from a country where the stores wouldn't even order Nine Inch Nails' The Downwards Spiral for me, to a place where most mainstream stores have at least some Cannibal Corpse cds - but even so, I realised that extreme metal, simply by its own nature, will never spread far beyond a certain demographic.
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#15
It isn't commercialisation just because cds are more available now than they were 10 years ago.

Cd megastore chains are simply able to have more music on offer nowadays thanks to better communications, internet shopping, larger and more recognisable shop names
#16
Quote by unfathomable_bo
It isn't commercialisation just because cds are more available now than they were 10 years ago.

Cd megastore chains are simply able to have more music on offer nowadays thanks to better communications, internet shopping, larger and more recognisable shop names


+1

By the way, having one or two (even ten, if you must) metal titles in a store range =/= mainstream. No way... It's like having someone hear the name Darkthrone, download ten songs and say they like extreme metal. Both are obviously wrong...

And I have no problem with seeing some decent music in megastores for once, as long as they aren't ridiculously overpriced opposed to other places that sell metal cds

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#17
It does kind of annoy me how some "Extreme" Metal Bands are making it into the mainstream. For example, around my school im seeing more and more mall-core kids wearing Children of Bodom, Dimmu Borgir, and Cradle of Filth T-Shirts along with their Slipknot and Korn T-Shirts. Hell, I heard that Dimmu Borgir was did a signing at a Hot Topic around my area! I think I might agree with guitgrinder when he mentions money being involved. I am not looking forward to CoBs new album because I really think that their musicianship is going downhill (At least compared to the days of Something Wild through Follow the Reaper). I love most Extreme Metal bands but I am afraid that too much commercialism might change them or their styles. Then again, there are the bands that will always keep their musical vision in tact like Opeth. I think that Opeth has been gaining more popularity and I think they deserve all of it but then again, im the only person in my school who wears an Opeth T-Shirt.
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#18
I've seen more Agalloch, Napalm Death, and My Dying Bride CDs in my local shop than I have in a HMV. It's definitely growing where I am.
#19
I think extreme metal is making a rise to the mainstream via deathcore and scenegrind. Spare me the arguments that deathcore doesn't exist, etc. Until recently, only one subculture, the metal culture, listened to this extreme music. Now, two subcultures do. The metal community along with the scene/emo community. Bands like Suicide Silence, Job for a Cowboy, As Blood Runs Black, Despised Icon, etc. bridge the two. I think its great, although it is weird to see a kid in tight pants and a chiodos shirt with checkered vans talking about how much he loves Sunn 0))), Burzum, Behemoth, Nile, and Opeth. It's happened to me. haha


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#20
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I think its great, although it is weird to see a kid in tight pants and a chiodos shirt with checkered vans talking about how much he loves Sunn 0))), Burzum, Behemoth, Nile, and Opeth. It's happened to me. haha


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Hell, looking at me, you'd expect a wigger. Seriously, huge pants, huge sweater, big shoes. And a Nile shirt underneath I've yet to see any "real" metalheads outside of concerts.
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#21
Blame nu-metal. As kids got more into nu-metal they started hearing about the more mainstream extreme metal bands. Then nu-metal collapsed, but extreme metal still had a foothold. Without nu-metal in the way, kids who didn't want to listen to pop-punk/fake emo or hip-hop had easier access to extreme metal. And that's why you see 15 year old mallgoths in Nile shirts.
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#22
I will admit that extreme metal is getting more popular, but it isn't anywhere near mainstream. It's one of those genres where it doesn't profit from popularity. But really, it's only the metalcore bands that are getting lots of exposure.

This also makes me wonder how many metal fans there are out there that are like me. (I don't look like a metalhead, but I love melodic death metal all the same, along with other stuff.)
Last edited by rockergurl09 at Oct 29, 2007,
#23
Sounds to me like some metal heads are working at Best Buy but I dont understand this mainstream vs underground ****. I was talking to my friends cousin whom I had just met. We were talking about metal and he asked me what bands I was into. I was going to say my favorite metals bands are Opeth, Windir, Pantera, Slayer, Emperor and kalmah." but as soon as I said opeth he interrupted me saying that I was a fag because I listened to something called "mall metal" and that I should listen to real metal. I immediately punched him in the face and he started crying like a ****ing pussy.

I think he called me a fag because I listened to relatively popular metal bands, and I think his point was that real metal is much more obscure and unheard of. I think this is stupid. Most of the bands I mentioned are pretty well known but I dont like them because other people like them or because they are popular. I like them because to me, their music is great and in the case of Opeth simply ****ing amazing. I have nothing against underground music, I just haven't herd much of it that really interests me. To me, all that matters is that the music is good. Not how many people like the band, how much money they make, not what people classify them. I dont give a **** about any of that. So by that logic, if a band becomes "commercialized" it doesn't really matter to me, as long as they keep making great music. If tomarow Opeth becomes a huge band and starts getting played on MTV, is played on the radio everyday, and everyone and their mother listens to Opeth it wouldnt bother me in the least bit, PROVIDED THEY KEPT MAKING GREAT MUSIC and didnt sellout and start making 2 minute pop songs.
#24
I gotta tell you guys, I'm really stoked to see some intelligent responses... in fact, I haven't read a retarded comment about this stuff yet! So, Thank You! I wanna discuss something here though... as a somewhat seasoned supporter of heavy music, I'm glad to see that more people are recognizing the talent involved in making this music, and it's also great to see how much it's influenced kids to pick up an instrument and actually learn how to play it, rather than take the "Cobain approach." Do't get me wrong, I like Nirvana, but the guy ain't half the guitarist that so many metal musicians are, at least techinically. He did have a feel thats better than many though... he focused on what kind of vibe he wanted to give off, rather than sweep arpeggios and pinch harmonics every 4.8 seconds. I've always felt that technicality for the sake of being technical was just as bad as the guys who can't tune.

So let me get back on track here... There is a difference between a band who is recognized for their achievements and abilities (such as Opeth, Emporer, Dimmu Borgir, Death, and even though it pains me to say it, Cradle Of Filth) and a band who is recognized because they have the right look, the right friends in the music scene, and quite possibly, the right name (I don't want to name names for the bands that I feel have recognition for these traits only because I'm trying not to put too much opinion in this...). A band that is very widely liked because they've been touring for years, have released many records and may even have pissed some original fans off along the way deserves any sort of recognition that comes their way. What I have a problem with is bands that get recognition because they're friends with (insert band name here). To use an exapmle from another genre (even if it is a ****ty one...): Remember when all the bands Fred Faggot Durst got signed (Puddle of Mudd, anyone) were supposedly gonna be huge and the next "big thing"? Well, in my opinion, Adam D. of KSE is like the new Fred Durst. I find him to be extremely annoying, kind of a poser, and for some reason, so many bands want him to produce their records, and it seems like so many bands that he even looks in the direction of get some sort of publicity, and it's ungarnered by that bands own merits. And I sense this happens in a smaller form in all the sub-genres of metal as well. So, from where I stand, I see a really negative response in how certain bands may be given more than their due, and I think it contributes to overflooding of the genre in general, which in turn is how it's seeming to become more commercial to be into extreme music these days. Like I said before, I realize most extreme bands aren't going to be knockin Nickleback from their place on the shelves anytime soon, but that doesn't mean it's not "mainstream" or "commercial."

I guess my real question here is this: As a whole, do you think that heavy music is being befitted by the mass recognition, or is it being crippled? The way I see it, the progression of heavy music is NOT benefitting from mass acceptance. In fact, I see a major stagnation in the progression of the sound. It sounds to me like there are thousands of bands doing EXACTLY the same things and promoting themselves in the exact same ways because, "hey, it worked for so and so, it should work for us too, right?"

So what do you think? Is the fact that everybody and their dog are playing metal (literally, in some cases) helping the advancement of metal, or is there too much ship weight weighing it down, slowing the progress?
Last edited by guitgrinder at Oct 29, 2007,
#26
^ That's exactly what I'm talking about! It's basically self-parody without realizing it. "Dying is your latest fashion" is so right on the money (it's all about the money anyway I guess...)

That's another thing too- the whole "sex sells" aspect that is creeping into heavy music. That can't even be denied, what with all the "female fronted metal bands" out right now! Granted, some of the fem's got talent, but a lot of 'em are just there so the horny, no sex gettin' fanboys have something pleasent to stare at while watching a vid or concert.
#27
I think that time has allowed for more of a tolerance for metal within mainstream companies like FYE and such, but dont expect to see Hate Eternal on MTW any time soon. Mainstream metal is really dead right now and more and more people are listening to underground music.
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#28
Metal as a whole climbing up the popularity ladder? No.

I do think, however, that there has been commercialization within the genre.
Due to new and convinient ways of getting info (myspace, torrents, etc.), the underground has shrunk. More metal fans are listening to heavier bands. Posers who would listen to Korn and Slipknot now listen to Dimmu Borgir and Children of Bodom.
More bands are getting more recognition. Honestly, who of all of you would have heard of Diablo Swing Orchestra, Gojira or Woods of Ypres if it wasn't for myspace and the like? unexpecT practically owe their recognition to the internet, what with their first album not getting any distribution at all, Not to mention Job For A Cowboy...

The metal underground is shrinking rapidly, and turning into the just-above-the-ground-but-still-not-mainstream area that most true metal bands are at. Is it good? I think so.
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#29
^i agree on most of that, imo the internet has been a major boost for metal for gaining popularity, i mean before i came to this site i listened to metallica and other so-called "mainstream" bands but when i came to this site i learned about the great and exciting world of extreme metal, the same could be said for other online communities and i am sure i am not the only one that have experianced (sp?) this.

I've also noticed that the big record labels like Roadrunner Records, Century Media and the like spend a lot of money in marketing, i'm seeing ads all over the place, on the internet, in the (bigger) cities, even tv commercials. I think that had something to do with the rising popularity of hardcore and metalcore in the last couple of years
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#30
I agree.

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#31
Also, metal is still selling fairly well, whereas the big "mainstream" genres are the ones losing the most sales. Thus, it makes sense to even out the shelves, since metal sells and makes it onto the charts, just like the "mainstream" genres do.
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#32
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Escape the Fate... Totally sapping off of poser metal fans by wearing cannibal corpse and slayer t-shirts in their emo music video...which was a rip-off of Van-halen's Hot for A Teacher music video. http://www.ultimate-guitar.tv/music_videos/escape_the_fate_-_situations.html

This video ALMOST made me vomit


They can wear whatever t-shirts they want you fucktard. You should be HAPPY that they're listening to CC and Slayer.

Metal's popularity has surges, right now we're coming down from the recent peak of one.

Not a big deal.
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#33
Quote by HedBanger24/7
I think that Opeth has been gaining more popularity and I think they deserve all of it but then again, im the only person in my school who wears an Opeth T-Shirt.

Nice. I'm the only person with a Burzum T-shirt. Yesterday on the way home from school some guy peeked his head out of his car, shouted "BURZUM!" and gave me the horns. It's nice knowing that some people up here even know Burzum.
#34
Quote by Rengori
Nice. I'm the only person with a Burzum T-shirt. Yesterday on the way home from school some guy peeked his head out of his car, shouted "BURZUM!" and gave me the horns. It's nice knowing that some people up here even know Burzum.


I'm always wearing T-shirts of a lot of underground doom bands like Goatsnake, Black Shape Of Nexus, Teeth Of Lions Rule The Divine, and lots of others. Every so often i get a complement at school.

I'm glad.
#35
I'm gonna stop buying cds so that my favourite bands never gets commercial.
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#36
I gotta say it's pretty nice to see some intelligent responses, but I think some of you may have misinterpreted my question... I'm not asking whether it's a good or bad thing that metal is getting more recognition. The recognition is pretty cool because it does mean that quality bands are being listened to and more of them are able to tour for longer periods of time and play to more fans. The recogition is great for the current state of the genre, but I wonder if it's benefitting the future of the genre.

True believers of the genre, I believe, are few and far between. I think that the smaller the audiences are, the bands are more likely to push the boundaries. Not in all cases, but I think there are many cases where bands try to please too many people and try to recruit more fans by incorporating some of the "popular tricks" into their music to try and appeal to a wider audience, rather than just focus on doing what they do best anyway, for the people who already enjoy their music and let the audience come to them.

An example of the former, in my opinion, is Devildriver. On the s/t and FOOMH, Devildriver had a very distinct style that was raw, heavy, catchy and very personable to Devildriver, but I think that with TLKW, they have sort of adapted to what seemingly so many people want to hear right now. To my ears, their new record sounds kind of forced. I love lead guitar, but I don't think it was all that necessary for DD to put it in their music because they had such a good thing going already w/o leads. To my ears, the new DD record sounds like KSE music with Dez singing. It's very much possible that they added solos to their music because the musicians in the band wanted to hear solos in DD, but is it also possible that they just put it in their 'cuz solos are "cool" now and they'd get flak for not having them?

An example of the former, where a band just does what they do best and lets the audience come and go as they please, are Slayer. Since 1983, Slayer hasn't really modified their approach much. This is definitely a two sided argument, because you can argue that they have heavily stagnated and never evolved as musicians, or you can argue that it's a great thing because Slayer in 2007/2008 is the same as Slayer was in '83/'84, and there are very few bands out there who can provide that kind of reliablity in every record they release. Many metal fans have their opinions on what the best Slayer record(s) is/are, but the truth is is that, outside of UA (which were covers), every Slayer record, musically, and in attitude, is at relatively the same quality. That's not something you can apply to Metallica (obviously), Testament, Megadeth, Anthrax, Exodus, Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, Behemoth, Deicide, Cradle of Filth, Soilwork, In Flames, or even the almighty Pantera (remember, they had records before CFH). Opeth may be one of only a small handful of band able to consistently put out high quality, reliable records like Slayer have, but even then, most of those bands careers have been less than half as longs as Slayer's. Slayer are like the Niagra Falls of metal. They've been in the same place for over a millenia (it seems), they're raging and noisy and people come from all around to witness the spectacle. Don't get me wrong though, Slayer are not the "be all end all" of metal; they are not, IMO anyway, the best metal band ever.

I guess I kinda got sidetracked in that comparison. The question I ask is the same though... while more people being into extreme music currently is great for the current times and the much deserved recognition, is it good for the future of metal? Is metal music moving forward or backward? Because it seems to me that the rising popluarity of heavy music is somewhat closely related to the fact that there is a lot of focus on the "'80's retro" thing. I realize many of you who read this are not in America, but there is a super big thing here about how "the Eighties were cool."

To me, this all sort of reminds me of how in the Nineties "the 70's were cool" and everybody was all into 70's music, tied-dye, and bell bottoms and crap.
#37
Yeah, it's far more commercialized today than it used to be. Of course, at the same time, if you want to go pick up... say, the new Putrid Inbred c.d., you're probably not going to find it. When all the bands threw core into metal and Victory Records sold it like hot apple pie, metal became the new "cool" thing. Those bands would state their influences and VOILA! Commercialized metal that wasn't commercial a few years ago.
It would be interesting to look at the demographics for something like Nailbomb's "Point Blank" today compared to a few years ago. I guess it's a good thing that the good metal is selling instead of the pseudo-"cyber"metal"core" bull****, although I'm damn certain that As I Lay Dying outsells Pestilence any day of the week.
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#38
I don't think there is a single release on Victory Records that really counts as metal. I don't think there is a single release from Victory that I like. I think I hate Victory Records actually. They definitely seem to be a large contributor to the "we claim metal but are in fact hardcore" plague.
#39
I think Slayer has become a little more mainstream than most realize... with the new album people have gone absolutely crazy over the lyrics and all... But slayers recognition in the past has made them almost indestructable... Opeth and a few others are just now starting to gain that recognition slayer did years ago... I think time will tell what metal has in store for the future... But for now I think we should enjoy the present day "slayers" before they become another trend... because metal should be the least trendy genre

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living inside a drop only to die in an ocean
#40
An example of the former, where a band just does what they do best and lets the audience come and go as they please, are Slayer. Since 1983, Slayer hasn't really modified their approach much. This is definitely a two sided argument, because you can argue that they have heavily stagnated and never evolved as musicians, or you can argue that it's a great thing because Slayer in 2007/2008 is the same as Slayer was in '83/'84, and there are very few bands out there who can provide that kind of reliablity in every record they release. Many metal fans have their opinions on what the best Slayer record(s) is/are, but the truth is is that, outside of UA (which were covers), every Slayer record, musically, and in attitude, is at relatively the same quality. That's not something you can apply to Metallica (obviously), Testament, Megadeth, Anthrax, Exodus, Cannibal Corpse, Morbid Angel, Behemoth, Deicide, Cradle of Filth, Soilwork, In Flames, or even the almighty Pantera (remember, they had records before CFH). Opeth may be one of only a small handful of band able to consistently put out high quality, reliable records like Slayer have, but even then, most of those bands careers have been less than half as longs as Slayer's. Slayer are like the Niagra Falls of metal. They've been in the same place for over a millenia (it seems), they're raging and noisy and people come from all around to witness the spectacle. Don't get me wrong though, Slayer are not the "be all end all" of metal; they are not, IMO anyway, the best metal band ever.


Thats an interesting point but I dont think a band deciding to take their music in a different direction is a bad thin provided they do it for the right reasons. To expand musical horizons and experiment with different sounds, follow what they feel they need to express. I dont think is a bad thing at all. If a band were to change its style to try and gain more popularity that could be a bad thing. Take for example Opeth when they released damnation which was very different from their other albums. The album was fantastic. A brilliant piece imo. They did it very well, and made it clear that they weren't going to abandon their metal roots and sell out. They were just trying something new.

Lets say slayer decides they are going to put out an all instrumental album. No vocals. An album where Tom really focus's all his energy into coming up with insane, deep and complex bass lines. This would be very different from past slayer albums but I dont see why it would be a bad thing.

A band like metallica though. Seemed to me like they just didn't want people to think they were old and retired. They wanted to show everyone that they were still in their prime. Same with Ozzy. That black rain CD isent bad, some of the songs are kind of catchy but its total **** compared to anything else his done.

I think the future of metal (and music in general) is kind of grim to be honest. I see alot of people very close minded about music and just looking at it in the wrong light.
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