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#1
So, I was just wondering if anyone knew when and where people from the United States, like myself, decided to throw out those annoying extra letters in words like "color" instead of "colour" and shop instead of shoppe.

Actually, I was just curious which words are still different and if the U.S. threw out the letters or if the UK added the letters, or what...

I mean I'm sure it's that the United States just wanted to be cool and decided to drop the letters in a few words because that made them rebels or some **** way back in the late 1700's to early 1800's, but I just figured someone might actually know.

Tried Wikipedia, tried the search bar, failed at both. Thanks in advanced for any replies.
#3
Yes, it's because they want to look cool.

Also, who in England spells 'shop' as 'shoppe'?
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#5
Nearly all languistic developments have been simplifications, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't the americans who started letting letters out.
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#6
Good point. I couldn't think of the other word that I see people from the U.K. spell with a "U" that I don't generally see people in the U.S. doing. There is a place called "Pizza Shoppe" though... even though that has nothing to do with people from the United Kingdom.
#8
Quote by Deliriumbassist
We meant in general usage of the word, not a gimmick to make a shop sound ye olde schoole



Yeah, yeah.
#9
another one is flavour.....why would they do this????
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#10
Quote by icon_player_5
another one is flavour.....why would they do this????


Harbour, favourite, colour, realise/realize... It just goes on.
#11
and the english say french is complicated....I mean look at the word "Chiswick" all my life i thought you pronounced the 'w' but once i go there, NO!!! u say it as "Chisick". THEN WHY THE **** IS IT BLOODY THERE?!!
#13
It's kinda funny how Leichester becomes "lester", though.
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#15
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It's Leiscester

Fine

What a defeat...
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#16
American's took out the letters, english has the letters because originally the language was heavily based upon French and latin grammar forms which meant the extra letters were need. American's realised the same noises could be got with less letters and simplified.
#17
Quote by makuserusukotto
America = lazy
they cant be bothered to type the extra letter(s)


Says the man who can't be bothered to use proper English grammar, in even the slightest manner.

In any case, there are a lot of letters and words that don't make much sense, and English is said to be one of the hardest and most complicated languages in the world (no reference but I do think that is the case). Why exclude or include the u in colour, favourite, and otherwise? I doubt there is a universally accepted explanation for it, but my guess is that it has to do with simplification, or it is just dialect.
#18
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It's Leiscester


It's Leicester, actually
╠═══════╬═══════╣

FUZZY FLATPICKER σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

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#20
It annoys the hell out of me when I'm typing in a HTML colour/color code and it doesn't work because the website uses the English/American spelling.
#21
Quote by Burpin'Worm
You know, the real cause of the American revolution was the colonies getting uppity and dropping letters willy-nilly. Those sort of shenanigans won't do, so we Brits had to show them what's what.

Or they might have spanked us and sent us home, I don't quite remember.


Nah, we ran away to confuse America further... we're just waiting for the choir boy to stop talking about the Holy hand grenade...
#22
'Shoppe' is the Old English word for shop, the extra -pe were pronounced, but obviously with language change (I won't go into all that) the -pe was dropped.

'Ye olde shoppe' is not grammatically correct. It doesn't mean the old shop...'ye' wasn't 'the'. It all goes back to the letter þ (pronounced thorn), which used to be a part of English, along with its cousin, the letter ð (pronounced eth). Both eth and thorn were used to represent the sound 'th' as in 'them' or 'the'. 'The' used to be spelled as 'þe', thus 'Ye Olde Shoppe' is really 'Þe Olde Shoppe'.
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#23
I'm not sure when this happened, but the Americans simplified the spelling on tonnes of words.
English has a very complex history. It contains words from a variety of languages. Anglo-Saxon; loaf, man, house, thrall, him, her.
Norman french, castle, palace, war, saint, friar, music, prayer ,fashion ,beauty, colour. ancient British(p-Gaelic and q-Gaelic) sassanach and the children's rhyme; eannie, meenie, minie, mo (1,2,3,4)
Scandinavian dialects too; skirt, kirk, gate, sister, fog, ugly and fat.
This is why the spelling rules for English are so complex.

Other examples of English/ American English differences are;aluminium/aluminum, tyre/tire, night/nite, aeroplane/airplane.
I could go on but I'm boring myself.
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#24
Quote by Child In Time
'Shoppe' is the Old English word for shop, the extra -pe were pronounced, but obviously with language change (I won't go into all that) the -pe was dropped.

'Ye olde shoppe' is not grammatically correct. It doesn't mean the old shop...'ye' wasn't 'the'. It all goes back to the letter þ (pronounced thorn), which used to be a part of English, along with its cousin, the letter ð (pronounced eth). Both eth and thorn were used to represent the sound 'th' as in 'them' or 'the'. 'The' used to be spelled as 'þe', thus 'Ye Olde Shoppe' is really 'Þe Olde Shoppe'.


Now you are just talkin crazy
#27
Quote by Child In Time
'fraid not, Izz.

This is part of what I study at uni.


Wow:P Yeah well I believe ya. Cool though. Didn't know anything about that word but seen it everywhere in Simpsons etc Thanks for the lesson Mister.
#28
Quote by Draken
American's took out the letters, english has the letters because originally the language was heavily based upon French and latin grammar forms which meant the extra letters were need. American's realised the same noises could be got with less letters and simplified.


english was based on celtic. most other european languages were based on latin though.
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#30
Quote by Izz
Wow:P Yeah well I believe ya. Cool though. Didn't know anything about that word but seen it everywhere in Simpsons etc Thanks for the lesson Mister.




'ye' was the archaic form of 'thee'. Since the letter thorn (þ looked a little bit like y, when it came to the printing press etc. it was substituted with y to make it easier. Which is how people then got 'ye' etc.

Quote by Ktool The Girth
english was based on celtic. most other european languages were based on latin though.


Everybody knows that English is a Germanic language, all European languages stem from Indo-European, stemming from (as it might suggest) Eastern/South Eastern Europe, somewhere between Macedon(ia) and India. Heavily influenced by the Nordic languages, and later Saxons. In Early Modern English there were some more obvious Celtic influences...

Quote by Deliriumbassist
I'm sure it's based on French, which is based on Latin, as we were invaded by the Normans, and then never again.


It's most definitely not based on French. The French influence comes, obviously, from the Norman invasion.
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Last edited by Child In Time at Oct 30, 2007,
#31
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Nah, we ran away to confuse America further... we're just waiting for the choir boy to stop talking about the Holy hand grenade...


THE HOLY HAND GRENADE OF ANTIOCH!?!?!?!!



And yes, English is heavily based on French, Latin, and Germanic languages. Celtic is horrible to read (Not sure why that's relevent. It's true though...)

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#32
Quote by Ktool The Girth
english was based on celtic. most other european languages were based on latin though.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.

English is based upon proto-german, early-french, latin and gaelic.
#33
Quote by Nutter_101
THE HOLY HAND GRENADE OF ANTIOCH!?!?!?!!



And yes, English is heavily based on French, Latin, and Germanic languages. Celtic is horrible to read (Not sure why that's relevent. It's true though...)

Kernow bys Viken!


Did you read my post?


Why do people ignore my learned posts?
Friends, applaud the comedy is over.


I'd dance with you but...


#34
Quote by Child In Time
Did you read my post?


Why do people ignore my learned posts?


germanic word forms, with latin grammar apart from verb formation.
#35
Quote by Child In Time
Did you read my post?


Why do people ignore my learned posts?


Mainly because I didn't see it as I was writing mine.

I bow down to your superior knowledge upon the subject, however!
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#36
Quote by Nutter_101
I bow down to your superior knowledge upon the subject, however!


Success!
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I'd dance with you but...


#37
The original Celtic languages first got Latin mixed in when the Roman Empire conquered Britain. Next came the addition of Germanic flavor with the Saxons. The Norman conquest added French to the mix. The British nobility continued to primarily speak Norman French through the Crusades and the Hundred Years' War.

The "ou" is a holdover from French, as is the E at the end of words; in French, an E is necessary to indicate the pronounciation of many consonants.
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#38
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It's Leiscester


Its Leicester god damn it!

i live there and go the university!

*breathes*

edit: apologies for a belated display of anger.
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#40
Quote by Child In Time
'Shoppe' is the Old English word for shop, the extra -pe were pronounced, but obviously with language change (I won't go into all that) the -pe was dropped.

'Ye olde shoppe' is not grammatically correct. It doesn't mean the old shop...'ye' wasn't 'the'. It all goes back to the letter þ (pronounced thorn), which used to be a part of English, along with its cousin, the letter ð (pronounced eth). Both eth and thorn were used to represent the sound 'th' as in 'them' or 'the'. 'The' used to be spelled as 'þe', thus 'Ye Olde Shoppe' is really 'Þe Olde Shoppe'.


actually, thats not quite correct, because in early printed texts 'ye' is often used in place of 'the'. the internet tells me that its because thorn was sometimes used to replace 'th', but obviously was unavailable to printers. i don't know how true that is, but i know that 'ye' is often used to mean 'the' because i've seen it with my own eyes.

draken: english isnt based on latin grammar. at all. its not just with the exception of the verb forms, its the language as whole. latin is inflected. english isnt.
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