#1
alright so i normally hate government conspiracy crap but i was looking into this earlier and it kind of intrigued me.

Lee harvey oswald was only ranked as a marksman in his military training, hich from what i hear means he wasnt an amazing shot at all. yet he fired his rifle at a great distance through trees and people to hit his shot with three fatal wounds to three people in three shots.

not only that but the gun he was firing with was an italian made, basically peice of crap weapon. it was not acurate to any degree yet he hit his target perfectly? not only that but it is a very slow weapon to fire. look up the video sometime and listen carefully to how quickly the shots are fired, its almost impossible to fire his particular weapon with that speed much less the accuracy.

there is a contest every year with a cash prize to see who can recreate the shot with the same weapon and scenario and to this day it has never been won. even by some of the best shots who train all year.

also the bullets in kennedy were "never found" you would think, "hey the president was just shot, lets get all the evidence we can" but they were never retrieved and no one was ever fired.

im not exactly sure how credible alot of this information is but it what i have been readin is true then it seems really fishy. what do you guys think? feel free to correct me if i was wrong on any info
empty the bullets from the chamber
#2
someone post the tin hat pic please.

Never mind.

Last edited by shakes23 at Oct 31, 2007,
#3
this is probably the only conspiracy theory that I choose to research, the rest are complete bollocks, but this one interests me. It seems all so strange as to how the hell he could have done that. maybe someday someone will crack the case wide open.
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#4
Quote by hushie_619
this is probably the only conspiracy theory that I choose to research, the rest are complete bollocks, but this one interests me. It seems all so strange as to how the hell he could have done that. maybe someday someone will crack the case wide open.



U.S Government wont let that happen...they have the word democracy backwards and up their asses
#5
Quote by Dauntless
there is a contest every year with a cash prize to see who can recreate the shot with the same weapon and scenario and to this day it has never been won. even by some of the best shots who train all year.


Isn't that kind of like seeing who can crash their car in the most epic way in Paris, in memory of Diana?
#6
well you really only have two choices anyway, believe the conspiracy theory or believe the magic bullet theory (which has been proven to be possible but its a one in a million chance of actually happening... but its still possible.)
#7
It was Colonel Mustard in the study with a candlestick.
time machine. Inadvertently, I had created a
#8
Quote by Dauntless

Lee harvey oswald was only ranked as a marksman in his military training, hich from what i hear means he wasnt an amazing shot at all. yet he fired his rifle at a great distance through trees and people to hit his shot with three fatal wounds to three people in three shots.


Its not hard to shoot a rifle and hit the upper torso of a man at that distance, especially with the military training and experience Oswald had. Also:

* one shot likely missed the motorcade (it could not determine which of the three),
* the first shot to hit anyone struck Kennedy in the upper back, exited near the front of his neck and likely continued on to cause all of Governor Connally's injuries, and
* the last shot to hit anyone struck Kennedy in the head, fatally wounding him.

So he hit one person twice in 3 shots and accidentally injured someone else. Where do you get your info?

Quote by Dauntless

not only that but the gun he was firing with was an italian made, basically peice of crap weapon. it was not acurate to any degree yet he hit his target perfectly? not only that but it is a very slow weapon to fire. look up the video sometime and listen carefully to how quickly the shots are fired, its almost impossible to fire his particular weapon with that speed much less the accuracy.


Its not a sniper rifle, but by no means is the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle inaccurate, especially at such a short distance. You could have made that shot with a musket if you so wanted to. Not to mention it is not hard to work the bolt and fire as quick as he did.

Heres a video that exemplifies how quickly and accurately you can fire it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qQBl5ZuPc
Last edited by NorseGodofRock at Oct 31, 2007,
#9
Quote by Dauntless
Lee harvey oswald was only ranked as a marksman in his military training, hich from what i hear means he wasnt an amazing shot at all. yet he fired his rifle at a great distance through trees and people to hit his shot with three fatal wounds to three people in three shots.


He wasn't a bad shot either. It wasn't a great distance nor a particularly difficult shot.


not only that but the gun he was firing with was an italian made, basically peice of crap weapon. it was not acurate to any degree yet he hit his target perfectly? not only that but it is a very slow weapon to fire. look up the video sometime and listen carefully to how quickly the shots are fired, its almost impossible to fire his particular weapon with that speed much less the accuracy.


There was nothing wrong with the weapon he was using. He didn't hit the target perfectly, one shot missed. It has been proven countless times that the shots could have easily been fired, accurately, within the prescribed time.


also the bullets in kennedy were "never found" you would think, "hey the president was just shot, lets get all the evidence we can" but they were never retrieved and no one was ever fired.


I believe the first bullet that his Kennedy was found in Governor Connelly, and it would not be unexpected if the second bullet to hit him either fragmented or exited and was not found.
Last edited by Kiwi Ace at Oct 31, 2007,
#10
Oswald didn't do it. It was the male models. The fashion industry is behind every assasination ever.
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#11
Quote by killedbyaspork
Oswald didn't do it. It was the male models. The fashion industry is behind every assasination ever.

+1

While there is a lot of evidence that there is more to the Kennedy assassination than we know (Kennedy's brain lost, Ruby's whacking of Oswald at the risk of his own life, etc.), there is really no good evidence anywhere that there was another shooter than Oswald.

Penn and Teller explain:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=62gvoKyODu4
Death to Ovation haters!
#12
* Lee Harvey was a bad shot. His army friends made fun of him for that.

*His Mannlicher Cocano rifle scope was screwed up, it shot a little to the right.

*The three shots that came out of his pull back action rifle were made in 5 seconds (impossible), of which the Warren Commission says that the first shot missed, the second entered the back of Kennedy's neck and passed out the front, then went into Governor Connally and bounced in some 4 different directions causing several wounds inside of Connally, before exiting his body unscathed (magic bullet bull****) and finally the last shot was the fatal head shot to Kennedy

* Civilian Autopsy suggested that Kennedy had been shot from the front because the size of the bullet wound was larger on the back and smaller on the front.

* Government autopsy found nothing strange.
#13
^ The School Book Audotorium from where Oswald shot from was behind Kennedy, not infront.
The Grassy Knoll was infront of Kennedy
#15
Quote by bassboy 999
* Lee Harvey was a bad shot. His army friends made fun of him for that.


Yet the army classed him as above average. Certainly he would have been competent enough to make that shot, much more competent than a layperson.


*His Mannlicher Cocano rifle scope was screwed up, it shot a little to the right.


Not enough to make much difference, in fact, FBI firearms expert Robert A. Frazier (via wiki) said that it would have been in the shooter's favour.


*The three shots that came out of his pull back action rifle were made in 5 seconds (impossible), of which the Warren Commission says that the first shot missed, the second entered the back of Kennedy's neck and passed out the front, then went into Governor Connally and bounced in some 4 different directions causing several wounds inside of Connally, before exiting his body unscathed (magic bullet bull****) and finally the last shot was the fatal head shot to Kennedy


The Warren Commission got the time wrong. Modern analysis of various recordings concluded that the time is closer to 8 seconds. Even so, the shots have been made in that time on numerous occasions (See the above video, for instance). Note that even the WC marksmen made the shots with a mean of 5.7 seconds, with is comparable with their [under]estimate of 5.6 seconds taken by Oswald. Ten minutes of research will tell you the 'magic bullet' is not magic at all, you can do that yourself.



* Civilian Autopsy suggested that Kennedy had been shot from the front because the size of the bullet wound was larger on the back and smaller on the front.


No. For starters, I believe the first autopsy was done by a naval officer. The conclusion - he was shot from the rear:
"[E]ntered Kennedy's head through a small hole in the scalp in the rear of the president's head, on the right hand side'.... [with a] final exit of this missile, or fragments of it, through a large lateral defect in the right parietal region of the skull over the right ear". Most (if not all) expert commentary I have read agrees with this.


* Government autopsy found nothing strange.


Wow! Maybe there just wasn't anything strange? Amazing!
Last edited by Kiwi Ace at Oct 31, 2007,
#16
Quote by Dauntless
alright so i normally hate government conspiracy crap but i was looking into this earlier and it kind of intrigued me.

Lee harvey oswald was only ranked as a marksman in his military training, hich from what i hear means he wasnt an amazing shot at all. yet he fired his rifle at a great distance through trees and people to hit his shot with three fatal wounds to three people in three shots.

not only that but the gun he was firing with was an italian made, basically peice of crap weapon. it was not acurate to any degree yet he hit his target perfectly? not only that but it is a very slow weapon to fire. look up the video sometime and listen carefully to how quickly the shots are fired, its almost impossible to fire his particular weapon with that speed much less the accuracy.

there is a contest every year with a cash prize to see who can recreate the shot with the same weapon and scenario and to this day it has never been won. even by some of the best shots who train all year.

also the bullets in kennedy were "never found" you would think, "hey the president was just shot, lets get all the evidence we can" but they were never retrieved and no one was ever fired.

im not exactly sure how credible alot of this information is but it what i have been readin is true then it seems really fishy. what do you guys think? feel free to correct me if i was wrong on any info


Cool I love Kennedy threads.

Lee Harvey Oswald was once ranked a sharpshooter in his marine training, later a marksman. A marksman for the marines is a better shot than 75% non army trained males in the US at the time.

A sharpshooter is better than 85%.

There was really only one fatal wound, the third shot to Kennedy's head. Arguably, the second shot was potentially fatal also as it entered his throat but we'll never know and Connally was not fatally injured. The only other injury was a slight cut to the cheek of James Tague.

The Mannlicher Carcano he used was not a piece of crap, it was just an old model. It was standard issue for Italian snipers throughout WW2 and whilst having been later updated, was still lethal in the hands of a marine trained marksman. It could easily be fired in the 10 seconds or so he had, especially as his first shot missed.

Bullets were never found?

The second bullet was found on Connally's stretcher at the hospital after rolling out of his minor thigh wound. It matched traces foundin Kennedy's throat and Connally.

One bullet fragment was found in the dashboard embedded. This is assumed to be part of the bullet which killed Kennedy, as it had splintered inside his skull and other parts matching that piece were recovered from his brain, some quite large.

The bullet that supposedly missed was never found but then it's casing was seen to shatter as it ricocheted off a tree and careened off a kerb. There really wouldn't be much bullet to find.

The evidence is iron clad, quit reading Jim Marrs books

Quote by bassboy 999
* Lee Harvey was a bad shot. His army friends made fun of him for that.

*His Mannlicher Cocano rifle scope was screwed up, it shot a little to the right.

*The three shots that came out of his pull back action rifle were made in 5 seconds (impossible), of which the Warren Commission says that the first shot missed, the second entered the back of Kennedy's neck and passed out the front, then went into Governor Connally and bounced in some 4 different directions causing several wounds inside of Connally, before exiting his body unscathed (magic bullet bull****) and finally the last shot was the fatal head shot to Kennedy

* Civilian Autopsy suggested that Kennedy had been shot from the front because the size of the bullet wound was larger on the back and smaller on the front.

* Government autopsy found nothing strange.


I've addressed most of these points already, as has the guy above me.

However, as for the entry wound being larger than the exit well, you can find the pictures online if you want from the autopsy. They aren't pretty but they show clearly that the exit wound was much larger.



See?

Quote by PatchworkMan
+1

While there is a lot of evidence that there is more to the Kennedy assassination than we know (Kennedy's brain lost, Ruby's whacking of Oswald at the risk of his own life, etc.), there is really no good evidence anywhere that there was another shooter than Oswald.

Penn and Teller explain:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=62gvoKyODu4


Woah, his brain never went missing. This was made up by a hack conspiracy theorist called David Lifton. The Kennedy family simply requested that he be buried with his brain, so he was. Lifton asked to see the brain some years later and was told it was no longer in storage for undisclosed reasons. To Lifton this meant conspiracy. To anyone else it means none of your damn business.
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#17
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#18
But do you really believe that the most powerful man in the world, the man who in the eyes of many carries the hopes and dreams of some two hundred and fifty million people can be assassinated by a mere madman?

There is substantiate evidence for both sides of the argument, conspiracy or no conspiracy, I guess you have to make the personal decision as to whether you believe that your own government really assassinated its leader.

The evidence on the JFK assassination is inconclusive, and thats the way it will remain forever. The CIA will not release the official papers in 2028. They will never admit to it even if they did indeed do it.
#19
Quote by bassboy 999
But do you really believe that the most powerful man in the world, the man who in the eyes of many carries the hopes and dreams of some two hundred and fifty million people can be assassinated by a mere madman?

There is substantiate evidence for both sides of the argument, conspiracy or no conspiracy, I guess you have to make the personal decision as to whether you believe that your own government really assassinated its leader.

The evidence on the JFK assassination is inconclusive, and thats the way it will remain forever. The CIA will not release the official papers in 2028. They will never admit to it even if they did indeed do it.


He was just a man dude, he wasn't a superhero. He's no more invincible than anyone else walking the streets.

Most of the papers have been released and even conspiracy buffs have admitted there is no smoking gun there, they just believe they've been destroyed.

In the eyes of the law the JFK assassination is conclusive that Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone in assassinating the president. The Warren Commission was essentially a trial in his absence, and he has gone down in history as the killer.
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#20
Quote by bassboy 999
But do you really believe that the most powerful man in the world, the man who in the eyes of many carries the hopes and dreams of some two hundred and fifty million people can be assassinated by a mere madman?


Why not? No ones immortal. Hell, Jesus was killed by being put on a stick and poked to death.
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#21
Quote by Rankles
He was just a man dude, he wasn't a superhero. He's no more invincible than anyone else walking the streets.


He was a good man. A good leader.
#22
Quote by bassmanjoe08
Why not? No ones immortal. Hell, Jesus was killed by being put on a stick and poked to death.

lol it was a bit more horrific than that haha
#23
Quote by bassboy 999
He was a good man. A good leader.


If anything that makes him more of a target.

And his leadership is overrated. He didn't really accomplish all that much, he was just well loved by a lot of people.
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#24
Quote by Rankles
If anything that makes him more of a target.

And his leadership is overrated. He didn't really accomplish all that much, he was just well loved by a lot of people.


I get what your saying, I know it doesnt change anything. I just think its really damn sad. Pathetically sad almost.
#27
Quote by nightraven
Threadstarter, I really don't care about JFK's killing (even though I think it was the government), I just want to say that you have the most awesome avatar ever though

why thank you
empty the bullets from the chamber
#28
i had reserached this, and some how i came to the conclusion that kennedy was killed in a joint operation by the corsican mafia and the us government. oswald could not have made the shot. he could not shoot for crap, barely passed the marksmanship standards. the mannlicher carcano 7.62mm(may be slightly different caliber) had (i believe) a slightly warped barrel, the scope shot high and to the right and lacked the power to explode jfk's noggin. also, zapruder film shows kennedy get hit from the front, not the book depository, which was behind the motorcade when he was killed. i cant quite recall, but there was motives for both the government and the corsican mafia. also there was something very amiss with the warren commission's invesigation. oswald was a patsy.
#29
Some thoerists reckon the shots were fired from the driver of the car...how that can be disbuted is beyong me...

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#30
9/11 happened on 9/12! Bill Stickers is innocent!


Personally, I think most of these conspiracy theories are fun to think about, but mostly false.
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#31
Quote by awesome-o
i had reserached this, and some how i came to the conclusion that kennedy was killed in a joint operation by the corsican mafia and the us government. oswald could not have made the shot. he could not shoot for crap, barely passed the marksmanship standards. the mannlicher carcano 7.62mm(may be slightly different caliber) had (i believe) a slightly warped barrel, the scope shot high and to the right and lacked the power to explode jfk's noggin. also, zapruder film shows kennedy get hit from the front, not the book depository, which was behind the motorcade when he was killed. i cant quite recall, but there was motives for both the government and the corsican mafia. also there was something very amiss with the warren commission's invesigation. oswald was a patsy.


Clearly you didn't look at the posts made by Rankles and I in this thread. Nothing you said is credible. Again, there was nothing seriously wrong with his shooting ability or gun. The Zapruder film, and JFK's body, show he was hit from behind.
#32
Regardless, the files won't be made available regarding his death til 2025.. and then, i still think they'll delay it
#33
I never put any credence into the "Oswald couldn't shoot crap" BS. However I don't put a conspiracy out of the realm of possibility here. The biggest problem with conspiracies is they require more than 1 person and eventually someone is going to no longer be able to keep their mouths shut.
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#34
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Isn't that kind of like seeing who can crash their car in the most epic way in Paris, in memory of Diana?


this is America he's talking about.
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