#1
Ampegs! They've got the best tone, but they're so overratted as far as volume is concerned! I just returned from my first really big (600+) show using my 6-PRO, and it still refused to be heard. I sold my old 3-PRO for the 6er to get more volume, and I did, but still not enough. shouldn't 1100 watts be tearing my eardrums out and castrating people across the room? No doubt, the amp was really damn loud, but it still really felt buried, you know?

I was using the amp by itself, through (lucky me!!!) a borrowed Mesa 8x10 (owned by the opening band, what a fantastic cabinet!). Would it help me cast out my sound more and get the most out of the amp if I used a BBE Sonic Maximizer? or something? I know Ampegs are overratted RMS watts-wise, but I really dig the tone. What can I do?
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#2
more wattage doesn't necessarily mean more volume. someone more intelligent than I can give you a better answer.
GAS List:
Nothing
#3
Well was ur amp mic'd or did you direct out it. Sometimes the mic your using can't handle the bass frequencies and 1100 watts in a room that big can be drowned out when not properly routed to the PA.
#5
well, I was using a mike...............hmmm. It could have just been me; I've still got a lot to learn about percieved volume, acoustics, etc. nonetheless, my tone was killer for the show, and it marked the largest number of people I've sang in front of :] it was mind-numbingly strange!

Anyway, I know that I was kicking out gobs of volume for sure; it just felt like my sound was somehow "obstructed" or my amp was sweating too hard for the output or something. Maybe it was EQing. The thing with the nice warm Ampegs is that even though they're freaking loud, they fit in so well with the rest of the band that they lose the "distinct" factor. Example......

For any of you who have any experience in a wind symphony: the trumpets, trombones, flutes, and horns are very easily distinguished. The tuba is distinguished in that it carries the lowest frequency. But how about the euphonium/baritone? It's tone fits and blends so well with the rest of the instruments that you really can't discern it unless the musician has a louder melodic passage over the chord. However, if you listen to a baritone solo on it's own, it has a very unique, warm, pleasant and strong sound that's very "relaxing" and appealing to the ear. I have a strong feeling that Ampeg amps function in a very similar manner. Alone they sound wonderful, and fit into the band so well that any amount of volume is blended into the mix. True?
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#6
Well, the BBE for me had a big hike in perceived volume, however:

1100W in 4ohms. Frankly, I've never seen a 2200W Peak 810 cab in my life. Are you sure your cabs are the right things?

Also, what's your EQ settings? This is THE most important thing.

Finally, where were you standing in relation to the amp? What axe were you using?
Were you buried in stage volume, or house volume? A DI is crucial.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#7
To answer fitzy:

The Mesa cabinet was a Roadready 8x10 which takes 1200 watts RMS at 4 ohms. My head dishes out 1100 watts a 4 ohms. Basically, a match made in heaven.

Next, for EQ, I started by flatting everything, boosting just a hair of bass, gave it plenty of low and "mid" mids, and a nice crunchy dose of upper mids, and left the treble just barely over 12 o'clock. The tube gain was at 250 volts, which is pretty high (it keeps things tight and articulate, but still meaty), and the compressor was about 25% on. All the Ultra low/ high, whatever switches were turned off.

Stage relation: I was all over the place, using my Stingray, playing with my fingers. When I stood right in front of my cabinet I could pick up some rumble in my body, but all I could hear was Mesa Triple Rectum-Fryer. and a lot of it. As for the house, I don't know. We had a good soundman, so I'm pretty sure I was fine though the mix. And I was guilty of not using a DI; all I used was a mike. It was the same type that they used for the kick-drum (a Shure, but not "sure" what model they used ;-]

that's that!
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#8
Well, at this point I don't think I should be giving you advice, but I think I've 'figured out' how to cut through - and you'll need that handy dandy parametric EQ to do it.

First of all, low-mids are the ****in' Devil. They totally cloud your signal and they really hog your speakers' power (Ultra low = off is a given). Personally, I think you should first cut around 150Hz by at least 3db (which is actually quite a significant cut). Then, boost the proper 50-80Hz bass area to a level where the cut at ~150Hz doesn't 'Big Muff' your tone. You'd probably need to boost that area as much as you cut around ~150Hz at the very least. If you have control of the sub-30Hz area, you might actually want to make that completely flat - they hog speaker resources, and frankly 10" speakers can't replicate it anyway. However, that's not that important. Anyway, the ~150Hz area is a guitarist's idea of low end, so those palm mutes won't interfere with you and vice versa.

At this point, you've cleared up your signal considerably while maintaining a proper low-end. Now, 500Hz is my personal choice for the next bit. Basically, find your mid-signature and give it a good 3dB boost (no more than your boosted bass). This will help your tone become more like the guitars in that it'll sound more present. In a loud band, these need to go up.

Now, around 2kHz is where you start to hear attack. I needn't explain this - just boost it. This is how you hear where one note ends and another begins. Without this, you'll sound like you're humming.

Typically, I set the "air" (8-10kHz) to match the ~2kHz to give the tone some coldness and space.

Anyway, that's my forumla to having a clean tone cut through. If you have your BBE working and want to cut even more, invest in an OVERDRIVE pedal. A real one. I'm not gonna bother plugging the one I use.

Anyway, why not try that? Right now?

EDIT: Kick drum mikes are quite fuxed. They're not known for their continuous recording, more for a whumpy attack. However, the way it's compressed makes the difference between the near silence to the best bass tone ever. However, your amp has an XLR jack on the back and you should USE IT NEXT TIME.

Yep, I just lectured a guy signed to a major label.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#9
Labels don't mean dick. We're not signed yet, and the definition of "major" only means we're making money and succeeding. The band has been offered contracts with several "major" labels, but they just basically told us to "bend over", if you know what I mean. Our current label is "legally" minor, but they're a healthy, solid bunch of dudes. that's beside the point, however.

No matter how far I dive into the music business at this point, I've still only been bassing for 4 years. Your fitzdoms and sage advice are always well appreciated. I just set up my SVT like you said, and I'll be waiting to dish out the pain the next time around. Muchas gracias for all your help, sir! I'll always come back to fitz when I need the right answer, because there's only one.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#10
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Sometimes it hard to tell what it sounded like to the crowd if you're on stage. But still, to you it should have been heard. I'm not really sure what to tell you.



That's true, our last gig was recorded, and i didnt think I was that loud at all...But, on hearing it back, I was

Get a friend to go to a gig maybe, and ask him/her to see if you can be heard properly, are you being put through the PA?


Actually, I just remembered, that apparently (this is only what I heard from my uncle, I don't understand why) with 8x10's, the sound only properly comes out around 30ft from the cab for some reason, so maybe run it through to 4x10's and see what happens?
Quote by Demonikk
+1
I live by the method: 3 or less orange warning labels, and it's safe as a kitten


Quote by Charlatan_001
EDIT: Sammcl pretty much got it dead on.
#11
chances are the crowd heard you just fine. although mic'ing isn't as effective as running direct(DI), you did right in using a low freq(kick drum) mic. bass is usually felt, more than heard. the bleeding ears, and castrations are the guitar players job. the bass needs to kick you in the chest, but on stage, you don't hear the house sound, and thats where the "kick" happens. i bet it sounded fine, and the crowd reaction is all you need to worry about. sounds like it's time to save for a better cab situation.
#12
Dude where can I hear your bands songs at? Do you guys got a myspace page or something?
Rhythm Harmony Melody
#13
Try setting up a moniter for youself with a cab on the floor pointing up, so you can hear to full mix yourself. You won't hear yourself if your amp is behind you. A moniter lets you asses how you sound to the audience.
Warwick freak of the Bass Militia. PM Nutter_101 to join

Quote by elliott FTW
Damn you and Warwickyness

Quote by ScottB
Quote by CLIFF_BURTON
gm jack knows everything
+1
#14
I never thought ampegs were known for their volume, just their infamous tube, warm tone.

if I were you I would try to get someone, your bass tech or something, to sit in with the crowd and see how the bass is in the mix and how well mixed EVERYTHING is, because even if you can hear yourself if you drone someone else out... its pointless.

but yeah, where you songs posted ey? its not advertising if its relevant.
Quote by casualty01
the RIAA can't shut us down, interpol can't shut us down. the U.S. gov't can't shut us down and CERTAINLY not YOU can shut us down.


BA in Music theory
MusicMan Bongo, SUB -> Orange Terror 1000 stack

Quote by waterproofpie
it's a UtBDan sandwich. Awwww yeah!
#15
www.myspace.com/milesbeyond

But wait.........there's a lot of assumption going on here. The show I did last night was with the band I've been in for years, we're just old friends with a big fanbase around here. the band I posted above, is a REALLY big act I've been working with for the last couple months, and the thing with them is that I'm 19, and they're 25, 31, and 45. There's a big age difference going on, and in the very long term, I probably won't end up hanging with them. Also, it's really not my style of music. BTW, on the myspace, the recordings are with the old bassist, and I'm not in any of the pics.

When they auditioned bassists, they said I stood head and shoulders above the rest as far as bass ability, plus the bonus that I sing and have a good vocal range. They really want me to stay in, tour, etc... but the dillemma lies in the fact that I don't think they'll make it all the way (they're in massive debt, they're poor, the singer has a newborn and a wife, the drummer is 42 and an accountant and doesn't care at all, etc and to achieve the most success, they've gotta move to Europe). Also, I've got scholarships to the college I'm attending and at least want to finish out some sort of degree while I can.

In all, I stand a much better chance of success and happiness with my old band. We've dealt with labels, and we could easily get into something good due to some strong connections with bigger bands from our area. Also, they're much more my style. My band's website is www.myspace.com/martyrchildmusicians. We're in the process of recording and will have songs up within the month.

Hope that clears some stuff up, especially to you fitz.
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
Last edited by mountaindew88 at Nov 3, 2007,
#16
Well, it's all relative. I can see a whole Mick Taylor thing going on with the big age differences.

However, I think friendship in a band is key. My band consists of some of my best friends. I've known my drummer since highschool and my guitar player since I was 6. There's a total symbiotic thing going on and it's great.

However, success inspires me. We've been playing for almost a month now and I guess we're doing well enough, but who knows when we'll pique? Will I be happy having to sell tickets and play in ratty clubs forever?

Anyway, that's just me, but your situation has a bit of column a and a bit of column b. Are you one of those dudes who doesn't care, as long as he's on stage, or do you dream of grabbing the brass ring?

That said, 'making it' with a band of friends must be the greatest thing ever. However, if the lesser known band can sell 600 tickets, you're miles and miles ahead of me.

But that's beside the point - you have to be heard. Did you test out those tone settings?
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#17
Yes, I dialed in my head as you directed and threw in the BBE for a dash of flavor. It sounds absolutely remarkable, and tonight I'll be trying it out with my guitarist to see how the sounds lock in.

My idea of "making it" surrounds being happy. I have a message to present to people, and just being in front of people on stage isn't high on my list of things that bring me that happiness. People that listen to my message, and doing well in a band with my old highschool friends; that's what I want. I know we've got what it takes to do well. We're young, we've got opportunities sitting in our laps, and we've been blessed with more than I can describe. I think eveything will work out fine.

Thanks again!
"Comedy's a dead art form. Now tragedy, that's funny." -Bender Bending Rodriguez
#18
read some stuff by gallien krueger, there are some theories why ampegs are drowned out...
#19
Quote by thefitz

However, I think friendship in a band is key. My band consists of some of my best friends. I've known my drummer since highschool and my guitar player since I was 6. There's a total symbiotic thing going on and it's great.

i agree 100% (thats my buddy)
i play in two bands, just for the love of music. but my main love is jamming with my long time friend and guitar player, Alan. we've been playing together for a little over 16yrs. we can actually feel what each other, are about to do, next. it's like magic, and words can't describe it. like thefitz said, chemistry is everything. if we happen to sell a few tickets, great. but i've had more fun playing to an empty house of 16, then a full house of 600. i play for the fun, if i make money at it, thats just gravy.