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#1
I was just wondering if punks are against or with abortion. I personally think It's wrong in any cercimstance. Would you kill your newborn baby? Then why would you kill your baby that's in your whom.
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#2
I don't think there's a yes or no answer to do you support abortions. It depends on a lot of things.
#3
it all depends. what if a woman gets raped and then pregnant from the rape....should she already has to live with the rape but then to see the daily reminder. i think thats a case in which i support abortion, but other then that i don't. if you don 't want kids don't do it or wrap the fuker up.
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#4
I don't think you can say that 'punks' are for or against. Some are, some aren't. Just like there are metalheads that are pro or against, or christians that are pro or against.

Personally I'm pro abortion. All you are doing is removing a couple of cells from the womb, it's not a child yet (those cells only have the ability to become one over time). It's a simple procedure that prevents a lot of bad things (if you have a child when you don't really want one it's going to be devastating for both the parent and the child itself)
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#5
I guess I am against the act of abortion but I still think there should still be an option for certain cases, so I am kind of in two minds about it. It just seems sad to just stop the first steps of potential life, but then again some people should never have children so it is probably better off.

It's sick when people use abortion as a contraceptive.


#6
Quote by Descendent-182
I was just wondering if punks are against or with abortion. I personally think It's wrong in any cercimstance. Would you kill your newborn baby? Then why would you kill your baby that's in your whom.


Nothing to do with punks mate.
Doesn't belong in the band forum actually, take it to the pit.
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#7
Okay, here's my thought. Abortion is wrong, sure. It's terrible. There are better methods of not having a baby. Wear a condom, use birth control, etc. But there will always be people who get pregnant with babies they don't want. And these people are GOING to have abortions. If they can't get one legally, they're going to get an illegal abortion. Probably from someone unqualified to perform such an operation, and quite possibly with unclean instruments. There are quite a few documented cases of death from illegal abortions. So should we force people into a situation like that? I don't think so. I think people having abortions is wrong, but I think that illegalizing it would make things much, much worse. And honestly...a parent willing to kill their unborn child isn't going to make a very good parent. It's better that a child die before getting older in some situations. I'd certainly prefer a baby dead before it's born rather than that baby ending up in a bad family situation, being abused, being moved around foster homes and families, etc. So...abortions are bad, but there will always be people having them, so we should prevent their risks as much as possible. It's the most humane thing to do.
#9
This has nothing to do with music, or being a "punk"..

Anyway, I'm against abortion, it's a really horrific thing to do. But making it illegal wouldn't work, so we should do it the Netherland's way, which is start educating kids at an early age about sex, and its implications, and have contraception readily available for teenagers. They have a really low abortion rate.
#10
Once again, nothing to do with "punk," but...
I'm pro choice. I personally would never want a girl I'm with or who I was with to have an abortion, but that should be her choice. It shouldn't be a form of contraceptive, true, but it will be treated as such.

Just because I wouldn't want it to be a part of my life, doesn't mean I believe the option should be taken away. Making it illegal, as pointed out, would only make the situation dirtier.

All the old, male politicians can outlaw it when they get a vagina.
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#11
Quote by Descendent-182
Would you kill your newborn baby?


Yes.
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#12
Quote by Jett Diamond
Once again, nothing to do with "punk," but...
I'm pro choice. I personally would never want a girl I'm with or who I was with to have an abortion, but that should be her choice. It shouldn't be a form of contraceptive, true, but it will be treated as such.

Just because I wouldn't want it to be a part of my life, doesn't mean I believe the option should be taken away. Making it illegal, as pointed out, would only make the situation dirtier.

All the old, male politicians can outlaw it when they get a vagina.

This is how I feel as well.
#13
I honestly think anyone against abortion is crazy. Letting the government choose who gets to have babies is no better than facism. (in fact, it is facism)
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#14
Quote by RizzoWashburn
I honestly think anyone against abortion is crazy. Letting the government choose who gets to have babies is no better than facism. (in fact, it is facism)

Zomg dose fascists! ..

It's perfectly understandable that killing unborn children would strike some people as sick. What's crazy is continually advocating something as futile as teaching abstinence, instead of prevention techniques that actually work, like education.
#15
Quote by RizzoWashburn
I honestly think anyone against abortion is crazy. Letting the government choose who gets to have babies is no better than facism. (in fact, it is facism)

exactly. you can think abortions are wrong, but you should still be pro-choice.
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#16
Quote by Jett Diamond
Once again, nothing to do with "punk," but...
I'm pro choice. I personally would never want a girl I'm with or who I was with to have an abortion, but that should be her choice. It shouldn't be a form of contraceptive, true, but it will be treated as such.

Just because I wouldn't want it to be a part of my life, doesn't mean I believe the option should be taken away. Making it illegal, as pointed out, would only make the situation dirtier.

All the old, male politicians can outlaw it when they get a vagina.
I'm exactly the same way
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#17
I'm pro-choice. A woman has a right to determine what to do with her own body. It's hers. It's not your property. A man does have a say in the process because he helped fertilize but I don't think life begins at conception. that's a whole nother debate for another day.

For the most part punks are pro-choice. we're a pretty left wing groupa people.
HELP ME I'M TRAPPED IN A HUMAN BODY!
#18
Quote by RizzoWashburn
I honestly think anyone against abortion is crazy. Letting the government choose who gets to have babies is no better than facism. (in fact, it is facism)

Yeah but people should get into their heads that if you don't want babies then don't go shagging around without using contraception. People are so ****ing stupid and careless.

But still it would be a disaster if they out lawed abortion, as Sonic Reducer said education is the only way.
#19
i'm tr00 p0nx and as a tr00 p0nx i'm an anarchist, which means i really can't say whether i think somethign should be legal or not, cause its kind of a given to me.

but regardless of my p0nx anarchy-ness, i'm still pro-choice, i'm gonna piss everyone here off by be adament that it is not a baby, not a human life, get over it, its somethign growing inside of a woman, that she can choose to remove or keep until it can gain true life and live outside of its host.
#20
Quote by sonic reducer
Zomg dose fascists! ..

Wow. Your eye rolling smiley face has completely changed my view on life! Now I'm going to generously shell out all my civil liberties in exchange for false security! Thanks!
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#21
oh, and yeah, kids? if you **** without a condom, you're either a retard or a catholic.

yes, thats right, condoms/the sponge/diaphragm(sp?)/the pill, or, (my personal favorite) THE AFTER MORNING PILL!
Are IMMORAL, ye sinners!


plus, what else can make your dick taste like strawberries?
#22
This is where all the whole abortion debate in this country pisses me off. You want to support abortion, fine. But don't try and say this:



..is not a human until it physically leaves the womb. It's not some sort of parasite. The solution to abortion isn't making it legal/illegal, it's taking steps to prevent it from even being an issue.
Quote by RizzoWashburn
Wow. Your eye rolling smiley face has completely changed my view on life! Now I'm going to generously shell out all my civil liberties in exchange for false security! Thanks!

Considering you didn't know how to spell "fascism" correctly, I don't really care.
#23
^Yeah by educating people about safe sex and protection
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#24
Quote by sonic reducer
Considering you didn't know how to spell "fascism" correctly, I don't really care.

Considering that commenting on my spelling has nothing to do with this thread or the conversation, I don't really care.
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#25
Quote by sonic reducer
This is where all the whole abortion debate in this country pisses me off. You want to support abortion, fine. But don't try and say this:



..is not a human until it physically leaves the womb. It's not some sort of parasite. The solution to abortion isn't making it legal/illegal, it's taking steps to prevent it from even being an issue.


....when can you tell what is and isnt? that isnt human, it WILL be a human, yes, soon, but until then, it is merely something growing inside a woman.

and by definition, yeah, it is a parasite, its being, growing inside of something, feeding off of what the host uses to survive.

oh noes, did i offends you?
#26
first off yeah this has a place in the punk forum, crass punk bands etc. and on to us.
But anyways people must understand this: WHEN A 'BABY' IS ABORTED IT IS NOT ALIVE, if you killed a baby in the 7th month of pregnancy i think thatd be kind of messed up BUT ITS NOT ALIVE, ok had to get that out there. And yes anyone who would use abortion as a contraception would be completely irresponsible and there should be better sex ed in schools, i.e no condom no ****ie. and a bunch of stupid old men should'nt even have the power in the first place to tell a woman what she can and cant do with her body.
#27
Quote by crustyreed
first off yeah this has a place in the punk forum, crass punk bands etc. and on to us.
But anyways people must understand this: WHEN A 'BABY' IS ABORTED IT IS NOT ALIVE, if you killed a baby in the 7th month of pregnancy i think thatd be kind of messed up BUT ITS NOT ALIVE, ok had to get that out there. And yes anyone who would use abortion as a contraception would be completely irresponsible and there should be better sex ed in schools, i.e no condom no ****ie. and a bunch of stupid old men should'nt even have the power in the first place to tell a woman what she can and cant do with her body.

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#29
Quote by original=punk
....when can you tell what is and isnt? that isnt human, it WILL be a human, yes, soon, but until then, it is merely something growing inside a woman.

Well, what are you basing that on? Why is it not human until it's born?

Because you can't see it? Or because, like you said, it can't survive without "its host". Even after it's born, it wouldn't be able to survive without its mother. Is it human then?

Like I said before, the legality of abortion is not the point. No matter how much you tr00 p0nx wanna support it, no one likes abortion. Especially not the women who have to have them.

If you took two seconds to think about the issue, you'd be fighting for better sex education in schools, not spouting lame rhetoric about "dose facists" trying to "control muh body!"
#30
when did i say "dose facists"?

and the fact stands, that (at least in ontario) half of the schools teach that contraception is wrong, its not gonna change, cause theres either the liberals, who re all talk, or the conservatives, who want these schools.

and yeah, i'm no scientist, but i know a little bit from being in many of these debates. the picture you showed, was of a foetus. foetuses, or not children, babies, or human, they are the beginnign stages of a human life, not a life in itself.

prematurely born babies are born, then kept under watch and/or care, i wonder why?
it's cause they aren't fully human formed yet.

and yeah, a kid needs to be breast-fed, but not nesessarily by the mother, absolutely not, it can be breast fed by any woman able to give milk.

quite obviously, i cannot live without food from SOMEONE. i depend on someone for food, does that mean i'm not human? absolutely not. my point is that foetuses need to stay inside the host or it dies, making it not a human being

so, in closing, a foetus is a beginnign stage of a human, can't survive outside it's host (mother), and once is born, can be on its own, being fed by anyone in sight. and doesnt rely on the host.

thanks, now lets get back to punk.
#31
Quote by sonic reducer
Well, what are you basing that on? Why is it not human until it's born?

Because you can't see it? Or because, like you said, it can't survive without "its host". Even after it's born, it wouldn't be able to survive without its mother. Is it human then?

Like I said before, the legality of abortion is not the point. No matter how much you tr00 p0nx wanna support it, no one likes abortion. Especially not the women who have to have them.

If you took two seconds to think about the issue, you'd be fighting for better sex education in schools, not spouting lame rhetoric about "dose facists" trying to "control muh body!"



I want to make a point of his second paragraph. So many christians with there noses up in the air run around saying that the women who have abortions dont't care and are moraless (sp?) and that they'll go and get another abortion next month, after one gets an abortion i sincerely doubt that they will keep having unprotected sex. And yes i realize there are of course some exceptions to this rule, sadly. (ps that wasnt an attack on your post sonic)
And original=punk the fetus does indeed 'come to life' while still in the womb, is it after 3 months i believe? And with that another point, what if a woman is raped and due to bureacuracy her ability to have an abortion is delayed, should she be allowed to terminize the baby when still in her wound? I have'nt answered that one myself and would like to see some essays on it.

Oh run on post sorry! In another zine i was reading about how women in rural environments where there may only be say a walgreens, can go there with a doctors prescription for contraceptive pills and the women who work there HAVE THE ABILITY TO TURN THEM AWAY even with a doctors note!! and they have to return to find pharmacists of less fundie ridiculousness to fill there subscription! i still deny these claims.
sloppy grammar but i think you all can get the points.


edit i went to eat half way through that post, fat i know. and i find the it cant feed itself think original punk made interesting.
Last edited by crustyreed at Nov 5, 2007,
#32
Quote by crustyreed
I want to make a point of his second paragraph. So many christians with there noses up in the air run around saying that the women who have abortions dont't care and are moraless (sp?) and that they'll go and get another abortion next month, after one gets an abortion i sincerely doubt that they will keep having unprotected sex. And yes i realize there are of course some exceptions to this rule, sadly. (ps that wasnt an attack on your post sonic)

But that first abortion shouldn't have to happen, and it wouldn't if we took more measures to prevent abortions, rather than arguing about when life technically begins.
Quote by original=punk
when did i say "dose facists"?

and the fact stands, that (at least in ontario) half of the schools teach that contraception is wrong, its not gonna change, cause theres either the liberals, who re all talk, or the conservatives, who want these schools.

Rizzo played the "facists" card.

And the fact that the same pro-lifers who want to stop abortion are condemning contraception, when it's been proven to reduce the amount of abortions performed, is so friggin' stupid it almost makes my head explode.
Last edited by sonic reducer at Nov 5, 2007,
#33
Whose ever pregnant should have their own choices for sure. And Christianity or religion should (as for all bills ) never be a reason for outlawing it.
#34
^^O=P isn't Rizzo

I also don't think that any of us are arguing that sex education should't be taught in school.
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#35
I'm pro choice. One day at school a bunch of pro life people were walking around with tape over there mouth and saying abortion is a holocaust. It really pissed me off.
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#36
Quote by element4433
^^O=P isn't Rizzo

I also don't think that any of us are arguing that sex education should't be taught in school.

I.. didn't say he was.

And I'm just mentioning it, cause prevention never seems to come up in these abortion debates.
#37
Quote by original=punk
when did i say "dose facists"?


Quote by sonic reducer
Rizzo played the "facists" card.




Education is the best way to fight a problem
*-)
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
i kinda wish we all had a penis and vagina instead of buttholes

i mean no offense to buttholes and poop or anything

Rest in Peace, Troy Davis and Trayvon Martin and Jordan Davis and Eric Garner and Mike Brown
#38
as far as i know, sex ed is taught in the states where they are SUPPOSED to have a neutrally based public school system, cause i know in georgia they teach creationism alongside science, which is absolutely disgraceful.

and i listed a BUNCH of contraceptive items at the top of this page, and this is all coming from a kid whos spent his entire life raised by the school to not know about them, and that they are wrong.

and prevention is a different story, only a couple ways i know it can stopped if a woman is raped, a) she wears the anti-rape condom (look it up, prepare to wince)

or b) shes on the pill.

no way will the rapist stop to put on a condom, no matter what the schools taught him ,you think he cares?
#40
adoption sucks. as i see it, to be put up for adoption is like your parents say to you "oh yeah, umm, i had you, but didnt really wanna keep you cause i didn't want you and/or couldnt afford to have you raised with me, so i'm giving you away to strangers who will kinda sorta love you, but not as much as a real mother would.

i'd rather have an abortion, and send no message, to nothing, seems a little easier and painless for the kid, right? and you get the same result as putting it up for adoption.
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