#1
What scale should i use for arabic melodies? Not really soloing, but more like just playing some random melodies. And of course for songwriting.

Any one who knows Guns N' Roses - Pretty Tied Up, there is a nice melody in the beginning.
#2
check out some of marty friedman's stuff, sometimes he uses middle eastern melodies
#3
the harmonic minor works pretty well, i think
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#4
I'd say harmonic minor.
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#5
minor keys, maybe mixolydian. but the truth is, many eastern and middle eastern scales are on different intervals than a guitar. They are usually smaller than our semi-tone which gives them the "foreign" sound to our ears.
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#6
Quote by handlerb
minor keys, maybe mixolydian. but the truth is, many eastern and middle eastern scales are on different intervals than a guitar. They are usually smaller than our semi-tone which gives them the "foreign" sound to our ears.
Cool, didn't know that
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#7
Well you have your harmonic minor, and you have the arabic scale.
Also the hungarian minor is supposed to sound arabic.
#8
Not to bust anyone's bubble, the harmonic minor was actually created by the Catholic church to keep music from sounding Arabic.
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#9
Quote by Incuboy49
Not to bust anyone's bubble, the harmonic minor was actually created by the Catholic church to keep music from sounding Arabic.


Funny, still it sounds arabic
#10
haha, swing and a miss there pope
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#11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammedan_scale

"In Music theory Mohammedan scale is exactly the same as the harmonic minor scale."
"The scale can be found in many traditional middle-eastern songs, and has been in use for a while."
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#12
Quote by Incuboy49
Not to bust anyone's bubble, the harmonic minor was actually created by the Catholic church to keep music from sounding Arabic.


well, the catholic church failed
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#13
look up some phygrian stuff. theres an egyptian like sound to that. also try to get the right groove to it, accent certain notes and what not to help achieve that sound.
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#14
maybe the symmetrical diminished scale? not sure if thats the right name of it, but the intervals are TSTSTSTS (and so forth, with T meaning tone and S meaning semi-tone).
i need to get a better signature.
#15
Do some bends to hit the microtones.
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#16
Quote by Incuboy49
Not to bust anyone's bubble, the harmonic minor was actually created by the Catholic church to keep music from sounding Arabic.



somthing put out by the Catholic church doesn't make sense? no way!!
#18
Quote by Incuboy49
Not to bust anyone's bubble, the harmonic minor was actually created by the Catholic church to keep music from sounding Arabic.

[citation needed] .
#19
Quote by kyrreca
[citation needed] .


I figured he's joking, I've never heard that before plus the augmented 2nd between the b6 and 7 is fairly exotic sounding making it a very poor choice to sound 'non Arabic'

Harmonic minor was created to enable V-i cadences in minor keys from every source i've ever heard, hence the name Harmonic Minor, created for harmonic purposes
#21
*post deleted because it was stupid*
Last edited by kyrreca at Nov 8, 2007,
#24
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibason
Gypsy scale. Harmonic minor with a raised 4th.


Also known as Phrygian Dominant.


Phrygian Dominant doesn't have a raised 4th but i believe it is known as the gypsy scale. phrygian dominat is the fith mode of the harmonic minor scale, thus the name dominant, and its just a Phrygian scale with a major third.
#25
I tried looking up the Ahavo Rabo scale only to find it's the same as this one^^
But this might help
Modes can be derived from any type of scale or altered scale. There are some common scales in the middle-east which derive from the harmonic minor scale.

D Harmonic minor = D E F G A Bb C# D
Mode of the 5th degree = (d e f g) A Bb C# D E F G A
(Freygish or Ahavo Rabo scale, sometimes called "gypsy minor")

Mode of the 4th degree = (d e f) G A Bb C# D E F G (Ukranian Minor)
Mode of the 3rd degree = (d e) F G A Bb C# D E F (Hizam)

------------

Let's put these modes into D for are comparative purposes:

D "freygish" (5th mode of G harmonic minor) =
D Eb F# G A Bb C D

Natural minor with a flatted 2nd and major 3rd, though I think of this
as Phrygian with a major 3rd. (Called "Hijaz" in eastern Arabic music.)

------------

D "Ukranian Minor" (4th mode of A harmonic minor) =
D E F G# A B C D

Natural minor with raised 4th and raised 6th (or Dorian with a
sharped-4th). (Called "Nakriz" in eastern Arabic music)

------------

"Hizam" in D (3rd mode of B harmonic minor) =
D E F# G A# B C# D

Think of this as a Major scale with a raised 5th.


EDIT: Awesome site listing over 1000 scales from foreign musical systems which can be played using ours http://www.dolmetsch.com/pianochords.htm
Last edited by TheNthDimension at Nov 8, 2007,
#26
Quote by frankieD2989
Phrygian Dominant doesn't have a raised 4th but i believe it is known as the gypsy scale. phrygian dominat is the fith mode of the harmonic minor scale, thus the name dominant, and its just a Phrygian scale with a major third.

You are right. I am pretty stupid sometimes.
I actually use that scale a quite a bit.
#27
Quote by pandora_grunt
Well you have your harmonic minor, and you have the arabic scale.
Also the hungarian minor is supposed to sound arabic.

+1. the arabic scale can be thought of a major scale with the 2nd and 6th flatted, and the hungarian minor is actually the 4th mode of it.
#28
Quote by kyrreca
*post deleted because it was stupid*



Jeez, dont be so hard on yourself.
#29
ACtually the harmonic minor scale was created for the following reason,
If you're in a major key, lets say C Major for example and you have a V-I progression, in this case G - C
The B note in the G chord wants to push up to the C note of the C chord This will provide a satisfying resolution.
The same idea wanted to be applied for a minor key, so in A minor, the V-I progression would be Em-Am, since we want a satisfing resoultion, up to the A note of the A chord, we make the Em chord an E Major chord (E G# B), so the G# resolves the the A note. G# is a natural 7 of the A minor scale, so we got the following formula for the harmonic minor scale, 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, b6, 7

The melodic minor was created for this reason
In the harmonic minor you dont want that augmented 2nd, gap from the b6 to the 7, so we raise the 6 so its not that big of a gap, and thus we get the formula for a melodic minor scale, 1, 2, b3, 4, 5, 6, 7
#30
Quote by zakatak9389
Learn the phrygian dominant scale. In the key of E the notes are: E F G# A B C D E. It's one of my fav scales, and I'm actually writing a song that uses it


Looks like the 5th mode of A Harmonic Minor.
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#32
Oh, and I think the phrygian dominant is a major scale since its got M3 although every other step is minor. But thinking chordwise and not merely scalewise Hijaz (its arabian name) is a major scale just with a different, more exotic and more "out" sound than the familiar standard major. If you play along with the tonic note as a drone it seems to me there is some really tastefull tension and resolution there.