#1
Hi guys, wondering if you could help me with my AS Media coursework!

We basically have to write a mini-dissertation about a particular subject and I feel like The Pit might be a valuable resource in my search.

The essay is basically supposed to discuss how the plethora of alternative music genres have somehow merged in to the mainstream and there is infact no "alternative"


look forward to hearing your replies, thanks
#2
Well, alternative culture will always find its way into the mainstream, getting perverted in the process. Thankfully, new alternative cultures will emerge and drown the old ones in feces.
#4
i thought it said george is dead
you could have started a whole new conspiracy!!
2 ducks and a rabbi walk into a bar.
The rabbi enjoys a nice drink and the ducks are shooed out so that health services aren't called in.
The day proceeds as normal.
#6
ive just realised a big hole in my conspiracy theory

its actually true
i made myself feel bad
2 ducks and a rabbi walk into a bar.
The rabbi enjoys a nice drink and the ducks are shooed out so that health services aren't called in.
The day proceeds as normal.
#7
i agree. i don't quite know what else to say, much less enough to write a paper on lol.

good examples of what you're talking about are the commercialisation of punk and 'emo'. by that, i mean a watered down bastardized version without the soul of the original designed to appeal to a mass audience.

i believe there's still 'alternative' music, it's just that obviously people don't hear about it as much, because successful commercial acts garner much more media coverage.

i have faith, however.

: )
#8
Quote by Magic Jim
ive just realised a big hole in my conspiracy theory

its actually true
i made myself feel bad


if your referring to my grandad he's alive and well, no need to feel bad lol
#9
Quote by nodice182
i agree. i don't quite know what else to say, much less enough to write a paper on lol.

good examples of what you're talking about are the commercialisation of punk and 'emo'. by that, i mean a watered down bastardized version without the soul of the original designed to appeal to a mass audience.

i believe there's still 'alternative' music, it's just that obviously people don't hear about it as much, because successful commercial acts garner much more media coverage.

i have faith, however.

: )


yeah, from what my media teacher told me, another example is bands from the supposed "Myspace culture" who until they got online nobody had heard from them and a band from my town "The Answer" they are an example of when a band is thrust in to the mainstream and they being to ignore there original fans ( they have never played in Northern Ireland since they got big)
#10
I could consider myself underground for listening to Michael Jackson these days.
I'm a communist. Really.
#11
Well Alternative is a pretty loose term, I take it to mean anything which deviates from your basic rock, metal, funk, blues, country, jazz, etc.

However I think in modern times it is used to describe rock music which has strong influences and/or traces of other genres.

Then you also have people who will not call a mixed genre Alternative, they will call it Jazz Rock, or Funk Rock. So the term Alternative is quite flexible, and in my opinion is most commonly used to mean "different from what is standard".


EDIT -- That sucks Jonny, I quite like The Answer, I hope they come back to you!
Last edited by Mr Montana at Nov 8, 2007,
#12
Quote by Mr Montana
Well Alternative is a pretty loose term, I take it to mean anything which deviates from your basic rock, metal, funk, blues, country, jazz, etc.

However I think in modern times it is used to describe rock music which has strong influences and/or traces of other genres.

Then you also have people who will not call a mixed genre Alternative, they will call it Jazz Rock, or Funk Rock. So the term Alternative is quite flexible, and in my opinion is most commonly used to mean "different from what is standard".



by alternative music, from what my teacher has told me about exam regulation gibberish (in her own words), alternative music is music that is not on mainstream radio.... basically the top 40!
#13
Yeah, again - to each their own. It can be used in many contexts. Anyhow as I said - that is what I take alternative to mean.

As for what is popular, it all depends on whatever the current society Is into. It is fashionable in some parts to wear tight jeans and paint your fingernails, hence bands like Panic! At The Disco and Fall Out Boy (you get the idea).

In other parts of the world you have Heavy Metal music on the radio - as the lifestyle is popular (not being entirely sure, I am lead to believe this is the case in many European and Scandinavian countries).

So depending on what is popular at the time, you have various aspects and blends of cultures mixing into music depending on what is popular.

I didn't word that so greatly but I hope you understand what I mean?

EDIT - You said music which is NOT on the radio. I have no idea why I misread that or thought otherwise. Either way, there are small subcultures and such with their own music styles - I have totally screwed up my train of thought by typing all that stuff above which doesn't talk about music NOT n the charts (but again, I hope you understand somewhat what I was getting at).
Last edited by Mr Montana at Nov 8, 2007,
#14
Quote by Mr Montana
Yeah, again - to each their own. It can be used in many contexts. Anyhow as I said - that is what I take alternative to mean.

As for what is popular, it all depends on whatever the current society Is into. It is fashionable in some parts to wear tight jeans and paint your fingernails, hence bands like Panic! At The Disco and Fall Out Boy (you get the idea).

In other parts of the world you have Heavy Metal music on the radio - as the lifestyle is popular (not being entirely sure, I am lead to believe this is the case in many European and Scandinavian countries).

So depending on what is popular at the time, you have various aspects and blends of cultures mixing into music depending on what is popular.

I didn't word that so greatly but I hope you understand what I mean?



yeah, i know exactly what u mean, a friend of a friend spends a lot of time in norway and finland (general scandanavia area) and he says the music scene is totally different good oul dominates the radio whereas the UK and many other areas are dominated with commercialised, pre-packaged ****, however FOB are a guilty pleasure of mine (please don't flame me) so whenever i hear them on the radio, which is rare because my iPod is hardly ever off, i'm glad to hear some half decent music for a change
#16
Quote by Mr Montana
Hey man I'm not into FOB personally but whatever does it for you


thanks, i usually get flamed for that cos i listen to Death, Meshugga etc and my mates think FOB r gay lol
#17
Quote by Jonny892
by alternative music, from what my teacher has told me about exam regulation gibberish (in her own words), alternative music is music that is not on mainstream radio.... basically the top 40!

Well, then you could always point out that what used to be mainstream can become alternative and vice-versa. Through the 60s we had the rise of the electric guitar rock as I like to call it - with Cream and Jimi Hendrix, for example. Those are pretty much alternative today. In the 70s there was punk, alternative today (there are a lot of modern punk bands, but it's not quite the same genre - just like metal vs nu-metal). In the 80s there was metal and rock, which is an interesting event - I like to say the mainstream was cut into two pieces around this time, where pop/rock went one way while heavy rock/metal went the other, but you're probably not allowed to say that. There can only be one mainstream channel, strictly speaking. Anyways, in the 90s we had the house/electronica wave with Daft Punk and the resurrection of hip-hop with Eminem (I believe, I'm no expert at these kind of things), and in the 2000s we had rap (50 cent) and emo/pop-punk and metal entering the mainstream more than before, and we might soon see indie rising to new heights...

Ok, that was very vague. But maybe you can see something you can use.
I'm a communist. Really.
#18
Quote by Raziel2p
Well, then you could always point out that what used to be mainstream can become alternative and vice-versa. Through the 60s we had the rise of the electric guitar rock as I like to call it - with Cream and Jimi Hendrix, for example. Those are pretty much alternative today. In the 70s there was punk, alternative today (there are a lot of modern punk bands, but it's not quite the same genre - just like metal vs nu-metal). In the 80s there was metal and rock, which is an interesting event - I like to say the mainstream was cut into two pieces around this time, where pop/rock went one way while heavy rock/metal went the other, but you're probably not allowed to say that. There can only be one mainstream channel, strictly speaking. Anyways, in the 90s we had the house/electronica wave with Daft Punk and the resurrection of hip-hop with Eminem (I believe, I'm no expert at these kind of things), and in the 2000s we had rap (50 cent) and emo/pop-punk and metal entering the mainstream more than before, and we might soon see indie rising to new heights...

Ok, that was very vague. But maybe you can see something you can use.



yeah i can see what u mean but i think that indie is reaching its peak at the moment, in the UK at least and every week it seems there is a "next best thing" most genres of music now, i believe have become severely saturated with offal, and this offal distracts people from the better, or original, artists of the genre........ emo is an example of this
#19
dichotomy, man.
the fact that there is a mainstream genre, means there has to be an alternative.
alternative has always just been a catchall name to refer to whatever seems to fall outside the popular music radar.
--------------------i'm definitely the alphaest male here--------------------
#20
it is true that a genre may not be classed as alternative if its popular enough to be discussed on the almighty pit........ but in all seriousness, i believe that genre can be considered redundant in some cases as there is so many subgenres that it can be impossible to classify all of them
#21
Quote by Jonny892
if your referring to my grandad he's alive and well, no need to feel bad lol

no, i was going along the lines of the "paul is dead conspiracy" thus it would be "george is dead" as in george harrison

thanks for trying to cheer me up tho
2 ducks and a rabbi walk into a bar.
The rabbi enjoys a nice drink and the ducks are shooed out so that health services aren't called in.
The day proceeds as normal.
#22
Quote by Jonny892
if your referring to my grandad he's alive and well, no need to feel bad lol

I think he meant George Harrison.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#25
being alternative is cooler than being mainstream. the more people who join the ranks of the alternative, the more mainstream the alternative become, until they are no longer alternative. then the popularity drops off as people think they've sold out, and the people who are in it to look cool go off and find something new and alternative to be interested in so they can look cool again.

That's my view on how different music genres become popular over time.
What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet? I'll answer for you. NONE OF YOUR FUCKING BUSINESS.
- Bill Hicks
#26
Quote by LogTrog
what is this AS media you speak of.


half an A level. what 16 - 18 year olds in the uk study for.

god bless the doss a level subjects.
media, philosophy, sport and leasure, music technology.

youd pretty much have to be in a coma to fail them.
--------------------i'm definitely the alphaest male here--------------------
#27
i'd say psychology is harder to fail than philosophy

psychology you can just ramble on until you get something vagueley like the answer
philosophy you need to know who thought what
2 ducks and a rabbi walk into a bar.
The rabbi enjoys a nice drink and the ducks are shooed out so that health services aren't called in.
The day proceeds as normal.
#28
Quote by Jonny892
mini-dissertation

Is this what is known as an essay?
Quote by Magic Jim
i'd say psychology is harder to fail than philosophy

psychology you can just ramble on until you get something vagueley like the answer
philosophy you need to know who thought what

Do you actually take either of these? In philosophy, we just ramble on about a topic. In psychology you have to know who did what experiment to study what and what their results were, and how this affects what model of abnormality, which is what in itself?

I find philosophy way more doss, myself.
Last edited by blue_strat at Nov 8, 2007,
#29
i take philosophy
we need to know platos theory of forms, analagy of the cave, line and chariot
aristotles ethics, metaphysics, causation
and all about the judaeao christian God
2 ducks and a rabbi walk into a bar.
The rabbi enjoys a nice drink and the ducks are shooed out so that health services aren't called in.
The day proceeds as normal.
#30
my philosophy lessons consisted of watching the matrix and having a chat.

my psychology lessons consisted of learning facts about studies and theories.
we werent so much learning about psychology, we learned more about psychologists.
--------------------i'm definitely the alphaest male here--------------------
#32
Alternative has evolved. Anything could be "alternative" if you didn't know of the genre and what it consists of. Every genre evolves, this makes it impossible to say that a genre dies, as people will still listen to it. Alternative has changed from grunge to emo basically. Styles of dress have changed, and music evolves side by side (do not say with it as they are separate things, but they do happen next to each other) this makes genres become worthless as they can be ever changing if we place people in genres by the way they dress, or how they look, even if we put them in genres by the music they play, they become useless as their music can change, unlike the media's viewpoint on music.

Try to mention that there is so much variety nowadays that alternative is a misused and is a common way of catogarising [sp], becuase of the width of music which can be thought of subgenres, or whole genres by different people.

monsta edit: Also, alternative covers so many "subgenres" or types of music, that it is hard to differenciate between them unless you know about them or have done any research about bands etc etc.



Gus
Last edited by ze monsta at Nov 8, 2007,
#34
Quote by Jonny892
Hi guys, wondering if you could help me with my AS Media coursework!

We basically have to write a mini-dissertation about a particular subject and I feel like The Pit might be a valuable resource in my search.

The essay is basically supposed to discuss how the plethora of alternative music genres have somehow merged in to the mainstream and there is infact no "alternative"


look forward to hearing your replies, thanks

What your teacher seems to be referring to is that genre of alternative rock that goes on the radio. I think it tends to be the stuff that I could almost (almost) call post-grunge. Seether and Three Days Grace are two of those bands.

But if the term alternative truly means outside the mainstream, then you've got Internet radio, truly underground bands that are not and have no intention of being pop.... Etc.

[IN PHIL WE TRUST]


Quote by Trowzaa
I only play bots. Bots never abandon me. (´・ω・`)

#35
Here's an interesting way for you to look at it: Genre never existed.

Might not be what your teacher is expecting, but seriously...
For every person in the "mainstream", there's someone "alternative" who doesn't like mainstream music. Punk might be/might have been an alternative genre, but as far as lifestyle goes, punks all go about being different in the same way. Look in the metal forums here (and saying this is going to get me in trouble) - there's a general agreement on what's "real" metal and what isn't. Mainstream music doesn't get in, because it's not "alternative" enough.
Maybe the problem isn't that genres are blending but that music is alternative in very mainstream ways.

In the words of Mark Twain, "There is nothing a nonconformist hates more than another nonconformist who does not conform to the prevailing standard of nonconformity."