#1
I've heard a lot of people say they're really nice, and I finally looked up the specs and they sound very impressive for the price. I don't think it's likely that I'd find one in my area, so I have a few questions for anyone who knows them well:

1. What's the difference between the AL-2000, AL-2500, AL-3000, etc.? Hardware quality? Wood quality? Pickups?

2. Are the Ghosts, specifically this one as nice as the LP's? Why do they sell a natural Ghost for $200 and a white one for $300?

3.I play mainly hard rock and metal, but I need a nice clean tone too...would I be better off getting one of these and replacing the pups (probably with Duncan JB/Jazz) or buying something else? My budget is around $350-400.
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#2
search for the agile thread, the guys there really know this stuff well
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#3
veto on the JB/jazz.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#4
Quote by Dave_Mc
veto on the JB/jazz.


What would you suggest instead, then?

I've heard a lot of people say they hate these and a lot say they like them, but the thing is, I don't plan on playing super-down-tuned bassy death metal, just thrash and occasionally some melodic death metal, which generally sounds alright in E standard even if the song was recorded in C standard or whatever.
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#5
If you're in the US, a combo like maybe a pair of Duncan SH-1 '59's or an SH-1 '59 + SH-14 Custom 5 would be better than a JB/Jazz. Depends on what exactly you mean by hard rock and metal.

I've heard good things about Agiles, mostly that you should at least aim at the AL-3000's, if you're looking at their LP models.

EDIT: Death metal? If you have the right amp, I stand by the '59's.
#6
yeah, for the neck i'd prefer a '59 over a jazz...

for the bridge, i'll leave that to azrael... i haven't tried any high gain duncans i really like, but i haven't tried the custom or custom 5 which are reputedly some of the nicest higher gain duncans...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
What are some bands that you like?

Definitely a no to the JB/Jazz.
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Quote by utsapp89
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#10
yea i been considering orderin prolly the AL2000....thinkin bout doin so tonight or tomorrow....wonder how the p/u's are in those...
#11
Quote by FacingUsAll
What are some bands that you like?

Definitely a no to the JB/Jazz.

Well, the tones I'm after are really quite similar what Randy Rhoads', that's the main reason I wanted those duncans, but I also want to be able to get that Metallica/Megadeth chug, and a nice smooth Slash-style lead tone.
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#12
Quote by shinedown98
yea i been considering orderin prolly the AL2000....thinkin bout doin so tonight or tomorrow....wonder how the p/u's are in those...


For just a bit more, you could get the 3100 that is MUCH better. Think about it.
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#13
Well, Randy Rhoads used an MXR Distortion + on top of his Marshall. Marshalls sound quite a bit different than your Peavey 6505.
Slash used a Marshall Jubilee. Also going to sound different than your Peavey.
I'm not really familiar with with Metallica's gear...other than they use EMGs and Mesa Dual Recs as of now, and Kirk Hammett will be gettin' a signature Randall soon...

Pickups are a small part of your tone - you can't expect them to do ALL of those tones, much less, one of them, with significantly different gear.
#14
Quote by forsaknazrael
Well, Randy Rhoads used an MXR Distortion + on top of his Marshall. Marshalls sound quite a bit different than your Peavey 6505.
Slash used a Marshall Jubilee. Also going to sound different than your Peavey.
I'm not really familiar with with Metallica's gear...other than they use EMGs and Mesa Dual Recs as of now, and Kirk Hammett will be gettin' a signature Randall soon...

Pickups are a small part of your tone - you can't expect them to do ALL of those tones, much less, one of them, with significantly different gear.



i agree.
amps are most of your sound.
but pickups do their fair share as well...

btw. nobody mentioned Dave Mustaine...
i dont know much but i do know he uses active duncans, the livewires.
and he uses Rocktron products...

i heard that the 59' jazz set are pretty versatile, i have yet to play them.

i know i wasnt much of a help. im bored...
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Quote by Bentheemo
Thats probably some of the best advice I've ever received on here.
#15
Quote by elekguit
For just a bit more, you could get the 3100 that is MUCH better. Think about it.



hey, save me some time, that one got a trem still? whole reason i was lookin at the 2000 was for the trem, i have an esp right now with just tune o matic, wanted to get somethin not super expensive to try the trem out and stuff, mess around.

edit, looked likes it doesnt have trem...which is basically why im getting another guitar really...
Last edited by shinedown98 at Nov 9, 2007,
#16
I see one 3100 with a trem:

http://www.rondomusic.com/al3100wilkcsb.html

If you're alright with something other than an LP, Rondomusic also has PRS copies with trems:

http://www.rondomusic.com/ps970bk.html

If you're alright with something without a trem, you should probably get something like the 3000 or higher (considering you already have one guitar).
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#17
Quote by forsaknazrael
Well, Randy Rhoads used an MXR Distortion + on top of his Marshall. Marshalls sound quite a bit different than your Peavey 6505.
Slash used a Marshall Jubilee. Also going to sound different than your Peavey.
I'm not really familiar with with Metallica's gear...other than they use EMGs and Mesa Dual Recs as of now, and Kirk Hammett will be gettin' a signature Randall soon...

Pickups are a small part of your tone - you can't expect them to do ALL of those tones, much less, one of them, with significantly different gear.


Well, the thing is, I'm not trying to get exactly these tones, they're just points of refference as being similar to the tones I want to create- the tight Metallica low end, the crunchy Rhoads bite, and that singing neck-pup lead tone.
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#18
Well, my point remains, you're not gonna get all that with JUST pickups.
Here's my idea:
Alnico Pro II in the neck, for that smooth Slash tone. It's part of his tonal equation.
The Seymour Duncan SH-5 Custom should be good for your genres, and provide enough low end.
Randy Rhoads bite and crunch? You might want to look into investing in an MXR Distortion +. I have no idea how the new models measure up to the old ones...
Need more low end in your sound? The Peavey 6505 is already closed-back. Dial in mids, and a little bit more bass. Hammett actually uses a significant amount of mids. You also have to remember that your EQ is most likely passive, so when you dial it back, it's really just taking away frequencies - it can't boost them.
Changing speakers might add some low end, too. Perhaps some Eminence Governors? I don't know how good they would sound in a Peavey 6505, but it's worth a shot.
Remember, in the end, your amp has a very different tone compared to the amps that were used by the artists whose tones you're trying to amalgamate.
#19
Quote by forsaknazrael
Well, my point remains, you're not gonna get all that with JUST pickups.
Here's my idea:
Alnico Pro II in the neck, for that smooth Slash tone. It's part of his tonal equation.
The Seymour Duncan SH-5 Custom should be good for your genres, and provide enough low end.
Randy Rhoads bite and crunch? You might want to look into investing in an MXR Distortion +. I have no idea how the new models measure up to the old ones...
Need more low end in your sound? The Peavey 6505 is already closed-back. Dial in mids, and a little bit more bass. Hammett actually uses a significant amount of mids. You also have to remember that your EQ is most likely passive, so when you dial it back, it's really just taking away frequencies - it can't boost them.
Changing speakers might add some low end, too. Perhaps some Eminence Governors? I don't know how good they would sound in a Peavey 6505, but it's worth a shot.
Remember, in the end, your amp has a very different tone compared to the amps that were used by the artists whose tones you're trying to amalgamate.

Well, I'm probably getting a BYOC Tubescreamer kit for yule, which I was going to use for a similar purpose as the Distortion +, but maybe I'll look into a kit for one of those instead.

And I don't really need more bass per say, I just need to be able to turn the bass up more without it getting muddy and overwhelming.

My EQ settings are currently something like this: Low-7, Mid-6, High-10, Resonance-6, Presence-10. It gets me close to what I'm looking for, but still a little bit muddy.

Do you know of any guitars that come stock with the pups you suggested that I could go to GC and try out to see if I like them?
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#20
Agile's arent that good for metal, especially the SD equpped ones :/
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#21
Quote by Skar
I see one 3100 with a trem:

http://www.rondomusic.com/al3100wilkcsb.html

If you're alright with something other than an LP, Rondomusic also has PRS copies with trems:

http://www.rondomusic.com/ps970bk.html

If you're alright with something without a trem, you should probably get something like the 3000 or higher (considering you already have one guitar).


I would advise against the 3100 with trem. The thing has a P-90 & Mini-Bucker set. Unless your looking for a P-90 exclusively, I wouldn't risk it.

The PRS Copy could be fine, although the AL series are what made Agile known.
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Quote by Sammythedruggie

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#22
Quote by Coaxke
Agile's arent that good for metal, especially the SD equpped ones :/

That's why I'm changing the pups.
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#23
Quote by Missingno476
Well, I'm probably getting a BYOC Tubescreamer kit for yule, which I was going to use for a similar purpose as the Distortion +, but maybe I'll look into a kit for one of those instead.

And I don't really need more bass per say, I just need to be able to turn the bass up more without it getting muddy and overwhelming.

My EQ settings are currently something like this: Low-7, Mid-6, High-10, Resonance-6, Presence-10. It gets me close to what I'm looking for, but still a little bit muddy.

Do you know of any guitars that come stock with the pups you suggested that I could go to GC and try out to see if I like them?

Could you relate those EQ settings to me in a "o'clock positions"? That makes it easier for me to see.
Yeah, a speaker change would probably be what you're looking for, in that case.

Quote by Coaxke
Agile's arent that good for metal, especially the SD equpped ones :/

Evidence? The AL-3000+ models are just like a Les Paul...numerous bands have used or use derivatives of the LP for metal. Plus, many guitars that are equipped with humbuckers are made of mahogany - The same as a Les Paul. If this dude finds the Agile to be comfortable, why not?
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Nov 10, 2007,
#24
Quote by forsaknazrael
Could you relate those EQ settings to me in a "o'clock positions"? That makes it easier for me to see.
Yeah, a speaker change would probably be what you're looking for, in that case.


Evidence? The AL-3000+ models are just like a Les Paul...Which numerous bands have used or use derivatives of it for meal. Plus, many guitars that are equipped with humbuckers are made of mahogany - The same as a Les Paul. If this dude finds the Agile to be comfortable, why not?


Played a friends through his Krank, cant do **** for metal..

I <3 Les Pauls though

I think i have a vendetta against the agile shape too ://
Quote by .arkness:.
I see my guitar as a chick because I'd be damned if i were ever holding / fingering a guy for hours a day.


I lulzed.
#26
Sabbath isnt THAT heavy tbh

I was trying to get Damageplan and Pantera outta it.

Did BLS fine however..
Quote by .arkness:.
I see my guitar as a chick because I'd be damned if i were ever holding / fingering a guy for hours a day.


I lulzed.
#27
Quote by forsaknazrael
Could you relate those EQ settings to me in a "o'clock positions"? That makes it easier for me to see.
Yeah, a speaker change would probably be what you're looking for, in that case.

Um... Low-2:00, Mid-1:00, High-5:00, Resonance-2:00, Presence-5:00

5:00 is basically as far up as the dial goes.
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Quote by steven seagull
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Last edited by Missingno476 at Nov 10, 2007,
#28
Quote by Coaxke
Sabbath isnt THAT heavy tbh

I was trying to get Damageplan and Pantera outta it.

Did BLS fine however..

No, but out of a vintage voiced EL84 amp, and a single coil equipped vintage style (menaing LOW output pickups.) Fender Strat.

Quote by Missingno476
Um... Low-3:30, Mid-3:00, High-7:00, Resonance-3:00, Presence-7:00

7:00 is basically as far up as the dial goes.

Wait, what? Let's try again with 12:00 being the "middle" of the dial. Hahaha.
Last edited by forsaknazrael at Nov 10, 2007,
#30
Quote by forsaknazrael
No, but out of a vintage voiced EL84 amp, and a single coil equipped vintage style (menaing LOW output pickups.) Fender Strat.


Wait, what? Let's try again with 12:00 being the "middle" of the dial. Hahaha.


I was kinda not making sense when I posted that...I got about 3 hours of sleep last night, so that's not surprising.

I edited is so it makes sense now:
Low-2:00, Mid-1:00, High-5:00, Resonance-2:00, Presence-5:00


And the 6505 is a very dark amp, especially at low volumes...playing an agathis guitar, if I turn down the presence even a little it gets kinda muddy.
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#32
Quote by forsaknazrael
Hmm...Okay. gotcha. Yeah, I saw you edited it.
Alrighty, yeah, try dialing up the mids a bit.

As for my suggestion about speaker changes, post about this in GGA. There are people there who know more about speakers than I.


Okay, thanks.

I think I'll probably get an AL-3000 slim taper, and then either change my pups or speakers depending on what that does for my sound.
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#34
Quote by Missingno476
Okay, thanks.

I think I'll probably get an AL-3000 slim taper, and then either change my pups or speakers depending on what that does for my sound.

On the other hand, it looks like the AL-2800 has hotter stock pups, which is definitely what I'd want for metal, but it also has a cheaper nut and tuners...but I could use the $70 I'd save to get some nice locking tuners.

And on the third hand, the Ghost III looks like it's pretty much the same as the AL-2800 specs wise except for the lack of flame top, and it only has a little less mass...but would a 1/16" flame maple top really effect the sound significantly, or is it just for looks? I definitely like the look and upper-fret access of the Explorer shape better.
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#36
Quote by forsaknazrael
Like I said, you definitely want to be look at 3000 or up. Those are the quality models.

My problem is that all the AL-3000's and -3100's have AlNiCo V magnets in their pups "for a traditional sound" which I'm guessing means that they're PAF copies. That means in addition to the additional $70 or so to the price (which as far as I can tell pays for a nicer nut and tuners, and that's about it) I'm going to have to spend $50-100 on a hotter bridge pickup if I want to get great metal tones out of it.

Actually, that doesn't sound like that bad of a deal when I put it that way, especially since I can probably use the pup I take out of it in some other guitar or sell it.

Or do you think I should get the AL3000, keep the stock pickups, and replace my speakers?

EDIT:Several people in the official 5150/6505 thread told me that replacign the speakers on combo can help a lot, but it's not going to be the an amazing, "like-taking-a-blanket-off-the-amp" difference.
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Quote by steven seagull
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Last edited by Missingno476 at Nov 10, 2007,
#37
If you're looking for metal tones, you could always get an Agile AL-2500 Tribal Green with EMGs.
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Quote by utsapp89
^I'd let a pro look at it. Once you get into the technicalities of screws...well, it's just a place you don't want to be, friend.
#38
Quote by Missingno476
My problem is that all the AL-3000's and -3100's have AlNiCo V magnets in their pups "for a traditional sound" which I'm guessing means that they're PAF copies. That means in addition to the additional $70 or so to the price (which as far as I can tell pays for a nicer nut and tuners, and that's about it) I'm going to have to spend $50-100 on a hotter bridge pickup if I want to get great metal tones out of it.

Actually, that doesn't sound like that bad of a deal when I put it that way, especially since I can probably use the pup I take out of it in some other guitar or sell it.

Or do you think I should get the AL3000, keep the stock pickups, and replace my speakers?

EDIT:Several people in the official 5150/6505 thread told me that replacign the speakers on combo can help a lot, but it's not going to be the an amazing, "like-taking-a-blanket-off-the-amp" difference.

Well, I personally don't see the problems with PAFs. Lamb of God's guitarists use Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59's, which are PAF copies, and they sound preeetty br00tal to me.
I'd say, replace your speakers, then the guitar, and see if the stock pickups work for you.

I don't know about those other people...But I think it'll make a huge difference. Peavey Classic 30's sound way different with a GOOD quality speaker.
Just post a new thread in GGA about it.
#39
Quote by forsaknazrael
Well, I personally don't see the problems with PAFs. Lamb of God's guitarists use Seymour Duncan SH-1 '59's, which are PAF copies, and they sound preeetty br00tal to me.
I'd say, replace your speakers, then the guitar, and see if the stock pickups work for you.

I don't know about those other people...But I think it'll make a huge difference. Peavey Classic 30's sound way different with a GOOD quality speaker.
Just post a new thread in GGA about it.

They do? I did not know that. Silly me and my modern-metal hot pickup elitism. I'll just have to make sure I get a nice OD pedal if I want to drive the amp harder. You've got me convinced, though. I'll buy an Agile AL-3000 and new speakers for my amp...I just have to decide what order to do it in. Thanks dude...now I'm off to make a thread about speakers.
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