#1
So i've been thinking of playing around with the high C string.

Whats some pros and cons of this.. I can think of it being easyer to play those songs that go hiiiigh in the ledger lines.

Umm chords would be better too wouldnt they?

the cons would be not having a B string =P

Any comments friends?
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#3
I personally love it. It's opened up a million and one new avenues to play melody, and chords, and harmony. Everything seems to just work with a high C string. It all comes together, it's cosmic. I don't miss the low B one bit. You might however. If you're into playing low notes then you might start o crave those boomy pieces of garbage. The only differences between a low B and a high C are this: with a low B you have 5 extra notes in first position. With a high C you have five extra notes in the highest position. The other difference (and the more important one in my opinion) is that with a high C, in any given position you get 4 more notes and with a low B you get 4 lower notes. To me that is invaluable.
#5
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
I personally love it. It's opened up a million and one new avenues to play melody, and chords, and harmony. Everything seems to just work with a high C string. It all comes together, it's cosmic. I don't miss the low B one bit. You might however. If you're into playing low notes then you might start o crave those boomy pieces of garbage. The only differences between a low B and a high C are this: with a low B you have 5 extra notes in first position. With a high C you have five extra notes in the highest position. The other difference (and the more important one in my opinion) is that with a high C, in any given position you get 4 more notes and with a low B you get 4 lower notes. To me that is invaluable.


The last bit hardly matters, you can just play higher up the neck and then have the same range ans if you had a C string.
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#6
And with the B string you can just play lower down on the neck. Circular logic makes my world turn. (Although it's untrue you have the same range as with a C string, there is still those five extra notes at the end of the neck). The point is convenience and the most important thing ever put into words for a bassist to know. Economy of motion. The less you have to move the better. The difference is whether you want to utilize the ability to move less going higher or lower in pitch.
#8
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
And with the B string you can just play lower down on the neck. Circular logic makes my world turn. The point is convenience and the most important thing ever put into words for a bassist to know. Economy of motion. The less you have to move the better. The difference is whether you want to utilize the ability to move less going higher or lower in pitch.


And in your case, it'd make sense to be able to go higher, and in my case, it makes more sense to go lower. One is universally not better than the other, but it's all down to personal opinion.

Yay for differences!!
#10
Quote by 83lespaulstudio
sorry for such a silly question, and not trying to de-rail the thread, but why wouldn't you tune it to B, like a guitar?


I've only ever seen stringers tuned with a high C. I wondered the same thing for a while, but then I just accepted it.
#12
Quote by 83lespaulstudio
sorry for such a silly question, and not trying to de-rail the thread, but why wouldn't you tune it to B, like a guitar?


The reason you think that is because you're a guitarist. If you were used to that third being there all the time, and then you just whipped out a fourth, the learning curve would be so immense not even Edmund Hillary would dare climb it. For bassists who are used to having all fourths it makes sense. There would be no real learning curve as everything relates to the previous string as it always has, the same reason a guitarist and bassist comboman would put on the B. My guitar teacher does it that way, but for me it wasn't even an option, I would have had to learn every scale and chord shape I knew over again to accommodate that.

Yay for differences!!!
#13
Quote by 83lespaulstudio
sorry for such a silly question, and not trying to de-rail the thread, but why wouldn't you tune it to B, like a guitar?


They have both tried to explain it and they are both extremely right and extreemly complicated.

The biggest reason is whereever you go on a bass, the string below it will ring a 5th. And since all chords except diminished and augmented have a 1st and a 5th in it. So if the chord is Gmaj9 or just regular G you can play a G, and the string below it, on the same fret will always ring D. This is where allmost all basslines are bassed. This also means that if it works somewhere on a bass it will work anywhere else. Adding somthing other than 4th to the mix makes goofs everything up and nothing works like it should.

I did a worse job then them didnt I.
#15
Quote by Deliriumbassist
And in your case, it'd make sense to be able to go higher, and in my case, it makes more sense to go lower. One is universally not better than the other, but it's all down to personal opinion.

Yay for differences!!


No my friend.

Yay for 6 Strings!
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#17
Quote by CollinPlaysBass
They have both tried to explain it and they are both extremely right and extreemly complicated.

The biggest reason is whereever you go on a bass, the string below it will ring a 5th. And since all chords except diminished and augmented have a 1st and a 5th in it. So if the chord is Gmaj9 or just regular G you can play a G, and the string below it, on the same fret will always ring D. This is where allmost all basslines are bassed. This also means that if it works somewhere on a bass it will work anywhere else. Adding somthing other than 4th to the mix makes goofs everything up and nothing works like it should.

I did a worse job then them didnt I.

actually this makes perfect sense, to me. and you didn't call me a guitar player, just for asking a relevent question. thank you.

<gets in pick-up truck to drive to Canada, to meet Jazzy, and teach him how to eat a hotdog, with a boot up his ass.>
#18
Okay, let's make something perfectly clear. I didn't mean guitar player in any kind of derogatory way. I was just trying to make the connection as to why it would make more sense to you, as it would make more sense to a guitar player. Stop looking for trouble. Oh, and I will OWN you every time at eating hotdogs with boots up asses. Up here we call that "The Olympics."
#19
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
Okay, let's make something perfectly clear. I didn't mean guitar player in any kind of derogatory way. I was just trying to make the connection as to why it would make more sense to you, as it would make more sense to a guitar player. Stop looking for trouble. Oh, and I will OWN you every time at eating hotdogs with boots up asses. Up here we call that "The Olympics."


You still havnt told me what was so wrong about my post sir.
#21
actually, i've always wondered why guitars have a B, instead of a C? but now thinking about it, what about 6 string bass tuning? wheres your C string now??
e-a-d-g-c
b-e-a-d-g-c
e-a-d-g-b-e???
tuning in forths will only work for 5 strings, right?
Last edited by 83lespaulstudio at Nov 9, 2007,
#23
Quote by 83lespaulstudio
actually, i've always wondered why guitars have a B, instead of a C? but now thinking about it, what about 6 string bass tuning? wheres your C string now??


... I'm just going to let that slide. Anyway, I'm not sure but I think guitars are tuned that way, because of the chord shapes. Without the B it would do something wonky with all the chord shapes and make it very difficult to play practically. That's just a hunch though.
#24
Quote by 83lespaulstudio
actually, i've always wondered why guitars have a B, instead of a C? but now thinking about it, what about 6 string bass tuning? wheres your C string now??
e-a-d-g-c
b-e-a-d-g-c
e-a-d-g-b-e???
tuning in forths will only work for 5 strings, right?

My 7-string is tuned BEADGCF. I coul have tuned it BEADGBE if I wanted to, but fretless, it's not going to help my chords. It's tuned to 5ths all the way through so the scale patterns ALWAYS match up, no matter what position you're in. When doing a scale on guitar, that maj3rd screws ALL the patterns up. With bass, let 0 be the root note's fret. The major scale pattern is 0, +2, (next string) -1, 0, +2, (next string), -1, +1, +2. For the next octave, shift 2 frets over. With multiple strings, keep doing it till you run out of space. The beauty of odd-numbered string basses is that the top string and bottom string both start and end with the same note if you're doing the scale.
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#25
Quote by thefitz
My 7-string is tuned BEADGCF. I coul have tuned it BEADGBE if I wanted to, but fretless, it's not going to help my chords. It's tuned to 5ths all the way through so the scale patterns ALWAYS match up, no matter what position you're in. When doing a scale on guitar, that maj3rd screws ALL the patterns up. With bass, let 0 be the root note's fret. The major scale pattern is 0, +2, (next string) -1, 0, +2, (next string), -1, +1, +2. For the next octave, shift 2 frets over. With multiple strings, keep doing it till you run out of space. The beauty of odd-numbered string basses is that the top string and bottom string both start and end with the same note if you're doing the scale.

thank you Fitz. that makes sense. who says old dogs can learn new tricks? lol

i may be ignorent, but at least i ain't smart!
#27
Quote by 83lespaulstudio
thank you Fitz. that makes sense. who says old dogs can learn new tricks? lol

i may be ignorent, but at least i ain't smart!

I've actually devised away to do a 4 octave scale on that 7-string without actually changing hand positions! I have to stretch like a sumbitch, but it's impressive to look at! And that's what's important!

But about this high-C business, I think it's a bit overrated, and I think that string numbers are just a point of reference. More strings = less hand movements. For every string up, all you really gain is 5 frets, and even then, they're at the very top. As far as better chords, there's really nothing you can do with a high-C that you can't do with a high G, unless it's using those 5 notes at the very top. Even then, the C string is so thin and un-punchy it detracts from it all. The F string is even worse - but at least you can have that octave on the last string if you use that pattern I mentioned.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#28
Quote by thefitz
I've actually devised away to do a 4 octave scale on that 7-string without actually changing hand positions! I have to stretch like a sumbitch, but it's impressive to look at! And that's what's important!

But about this high-C business, I think it's a bit overrated, and I think that string numbers are just a point of reference. More strings = less hand movements. For every string up, all you really gain is 5 frets, and even then, they're at the very top. As far as better chords, there's really nothing you can do with a high-C that you can't do with a high G, unless it's using those 5 notes at the very top. Even then, the C string is so thin and un-punchy it detracts from it all. The F string is even worse - but at least you can have that octave on the last string if you use that pattern I mentioned.


But the chords sound more full if you want to incorporate upper voices, with inner voices, and roots. You can't do that with just a G because your inner voices are on the same string as your upper voices. I do find my C a little thin, but it's sound is so good for me. I don't necessarily need huge punch for everything, and that's when the C string comes in handy. Sure, when I'm doing a smokin' funk riff I'm probably not going to touch the C, but in the solo later on, that C becomes invaluable. But, I still don't see what advantage a low B has over a High C, or vice-versa. It's all personal preference.
#29
I never use my 22nd fret on my Jazz for chords, that high E does it for me.

And, FWIW, I string my Warwick BEAD. Its lowest note is B, but since it has 24 frets, its highest note is D - which is ONE measily note less than a standard Fender. So I basically have 1 less note than a 5-string Fender on my 4-string bass. Does this kinda illustrate my whole reference thing a bit better?
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#30
Quote by thefitz
I never use my 22nd fret on my Jazz for chords, that high E does it for me.

And, FWIW, I string my Warwick BEAD. Its lowest note is B, but since it has 24 frets, its highest note is D - which is ONE measily note less than a standard Fender. So I basically have 1 less note than a 5-string Fender on my 4-string bass. Does this kinda illustrate my whole reference thing a bit better?


I guess... But I still say the notes aren't important, it's the access that is, and while you have all the notes, the access isn't as economical as on a Fender V.
#31
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
I guess... But I still say the notes aren't important, it's the access that is, and while you have all the notes, the access isn't as economical as on a Fender V.

Nope, and that's why I'm a primarly 5-string player, but for band purposes, I rarely find that I need 3 octaves in any given hand position at once. For noodling around, sometimes I say ****, I have to do a jump, but when playing, the jumps don't interfere.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#33
Eadgc- I think Steve Swallow does that. and it used to be standard 5 string tuning.
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#34
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
And with the B string you can just play lower down on the neck. Circular logic makes my world turn. (Although it's untrue you have the same range as with a C string, there is still those five extra notes at the end of the neck). The point is convenience and the most important thing ever put into words for a bassist to know. Economy of motion. The less you have to move the better. The difference is whether you want to utilize the ability to move less going higher or lower in pitch.

I like to move a lot,
I like to keep both hands working
#35
Well I missed a lot of chances in here. Back to the whole basses tuned in fourths thing, (Or fifths if you go backwards) That's why I consider it to be called an "Electric Bass, instead of bass guitar, because then a six string bass guitar would be tuned EADGBE. Or BEADGB, but since it's tuned in fourths that allows me to call it the illigetimate love child of electricity and upright basses. Just throwing that in there.
#36
Quote by sidious
I like to move a lot,
I like to keep both hands working


That's all fine and good, but I still think economy of motion is important, not only for hand stamina, but for ease of playing, as well as the flow and smoothness of you line.
#37
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
That's all fine and good, but I still think economy of motion is important, not only for hand stamina, but for ease of playing, as well as the flow and smoothness of you line.

Yeah, I like to stay in position, but I find I rarely need anything higher than the 3rd octave in any given position. On the BEAD, I can usually take out some frills if I am indeed dying to use that 3rd octave.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..