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#1
i am ready to get bashed for this so say whatever, why the hell are "metalcore" bands not considered metal? as a guy who plays guitar as do all of us here i play songs by these core bands that are technically challenging as some death metal and black metal songs. is it cuz some of its not fast? if thats so we shouldnt claim doom metal as metal then right?

now bash away
#3
Because they are not tr00. Is that reasoning enough to convince you?

/bin/bash

Kudos to anyone who gets it.
Quote by denizenz
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#4
it's not the slow thing, some metalcore bands are considered metal like Killswitch, BTBAM, All That Remains. obviously metalcore's a combination of metal and hardcore it's just a matter of which style is predominant
#5
its not a noob questions. its actually pretty legit. honestly, i dont like the whole "subgenre" thing because its stupid. i guess metalcore bands arent "real metal" because they dont sing about stupid stuff like having sex with dead corpses and whatnot. whats a good way to avoid this? listen to dream theater.
godspeed
#6
Is BTBAM REALLY considered metalcore?


EDIT: nevermind, just read your post again...sorry ha

to make this post not spam,

Metalcore is, so i've heard, "screaming with "metal" riffs underneath it" or some lazy sh!t like that


If it sounds good, it's good.
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#7
In the context of this forum, it's because the mass influx of metalcore threads would permeate through all the other metal, and clog this forum with unnecessary threads. Because of this traffic, and the fact that a lot of noobs happen to listen to metalcore, a separate forum was made just for that.

In the context of other forums and real life, it would be because many metalcore bands have core influences, and many "true" fans don't want to associate their precious genre and have a watered-down definition of metal to include metalcore. Also, popular metalcore tends to offer nothing original to music. They tend to sound like melodic death metal bands, don't experiment much, often have an emo look going on, or they try to sound technical for the sake of being technical.
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#11
... Why are metalcore bands not considered metal?
Same reason they're not considered hardcore.
Still no idea?

Try this.
Because they're metalcore. A band can only have one genre. They might have loads of genres in their music, but that creates one single genre, like electrobangracore or neonhorror-gypsyska.
Vice president of the I Watched Eon8 End Club!
And what a big f****** let down that was.

You don't play your scales "out of the box", you just play them in a really big box.
#12
Quote by burrit0
Just because it's technical and fast, doesn't mean it's metal.



i know that but there are some heavier bands that people consider core and i just dont understand why theyre not "true" metal as some would say. i would like to know whos the absolute authority over this kind of thing. lol
#13
those who bash you is just another online asshole... honestley i dont even kno what metalcore is. i dont care about the "labeling" of a certian band or sound. whats good is good. so i guess im ready for some online bashing... woooo you guys are so tough bashin people on the internet
#14
Quote by HIM%(^
its not a noob questions. its actually pretty legit. honestly, i dont like the whole "subgenre" thing because its stupid. i guess metalcore bands arent "real metal" because they dont sing about stupid stuff like having sex with dead corpses and whatnot. whats a good way to avoid this? listen to dream theater.
godspeed


most metal bands don't only write about sex & dead corpses. including brutal death metal and black metal, and even most metalcore don't either. don't judge based on pre-conceived notions. listen to lots of examples of the music, read the lyrics, and then make a statement. trust me it won't be the one you just made.

oh and yah probably because most "true metal" heads don't want their precious forum polluted with many threads... especially if any of them are like "A7X is the BEST METAL BAND EVER". no they wouldn't take kindly.

also metalcore tends to have more hardcore influences, and use more hardcore techniques blended with some metal ones. most "true metalcore" bands (whatever that is) tend to have not as br00tal sounds or whatever compared to brutal death metal which is probably the most popular form of contemporary metal these days especially among the people who occupy this forum... that is besides Thrash Metal... but hey Thrash Metal is nearly dead... although i'd love for a thrash comeback.

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Last edited by bootyguard at Nov 11, 2007,
#15
Quote by icpgettozone
those who bash you is just another online asshole... honestley i dont even kno what metalcore is. i dont care about the "labeling" of a certian band or sound. whats good is good. so i guess im ready for some online bashing... woooo you guys are so tough bashin people on the internet



totally agree ^
#16
Quote by glamdring22
BTBAM is considered kickass
end of story



You are winrar, sir

BTBAM-inites unite!
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Schecter C-1+ w/ Seymour duncan Jazz (neck) and Full Shred (bridge), with Sperzels
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Rogue LX405 Bass
Yamaha classical
Some sort of acoustic Squier
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#17
Metalcore's so damn boring.

To answer your question I don't know, but lately they've been accepted as metal so people would stop bitching about it, most of them are even on metal-archives.com already which is a darn shame if you ask me, next thing we gonna see Atreyu with they're own page at MA.
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#18
theres no reason whatsoever. all metal is is chrushing distorted guitars and sick drums and dark sound. anything that has that is metal. regardless of how the band looks. a bands look is by far the pettiest thing to judge a band on.
which is why i listen to dream theater.
#19
Yeah. In traditional metal, The lyrics tend to revolve around dungeons and dragons, one or all of the four horsemen, fictitious fantasy battles, and of course the previous mentioned sex with dead people. Metalcore is "you hurt my feelings so now i'm gonna scream about how I hate you."
#20
There's no problem with "the sub genre thing". Listen and differentiate for yourself. If you don't agree with someone's definition, use your own. If you go on a forum like this and some metalcore band isn't considered metal, then get out. Differing opinions aren't the end of the world.
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#21
Quote by SorrowIsMe
Metalcore's so damn boring.

To answer your question I don't know, but lately they've been accepted as metal so people would stop bitching about it, most of them are even on metal-archives.com already which is a darn shame if you ask me, next thing we gonna see Atreyu with they're own page at MA.

doubt that they're mutually hated by everyone there
#22
Quote by Devin2112



When have they ever written about relationship struggles?
My gear:
Schecter C-1+ w/ Seymour duncan Jazz (neck) and Full Shred (bridge), with Sperzels
B-52 LG-100A 4x12 half stack
Rogue LX405 Bass
Yamaha classical
Some sort of acoustic Squier
Boss Flanger
Lyon Chorus
#23
Quote by Contraband
In the context of this forum, it's because the mass influx of metalcore threads would permeate through all the other metal, and clog this forum with unnecessary threads. Because of this traffic, and the fact that a lot of noobs happen to listen to metalcore, a separate forum was made just for that.

In the context of other forums and real life, it would be because many metalcore bands have core influences, and many "true" fans don't want to associate their precious genre and have a watered-down definition of metal to include metalcore. Also, popular metalcore tends to offer nothing original to music. They tend to sound like melodic death metal bands, don't experiment much, often have an emo look going on, or they try to sound technical for the sake of being technical.



but there you present another quagmire bro, if a metal band tries to do something different they are sellouts so they stay the same and dont progress
#25
Quote by bootyguard
most metal bands don't only write about sex & dead corpses. including brutal death metal and black metal, and even most metalcore don't either. don't judge based on pre-conceived notions. listen to lots of examples of the music, read the lyrics, and then make a statement. trust me it won't be the one you just made.


i used to listen to that stuff, until i realized that its stupid and its just a gimmick. the brutalness goes away once you realize that the people "singin" the songs are just a bunch of guys from florida. its not technical, infact most of it is pretty basic. subgenres are pointless. i stick to the basics, metal, alternative, progressive, country, r&b, ect.
do you want technical, change of seasons by dream theater. soaring melodies, complex time signatures, and winding patterns and musical directions. its not the same 4/4 time with a 3 million bpm blast beat about mutilation...
#26
Quote by systematic_nois
but there you present another quagmire bro, if a metal band tries to do something different they are sellouts so they stay the same and dont progress


That's not at all what I said, and neither is that true.
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#27
Quote by HIM%(^
i used to listen to that stuff, until i realized that its stupid and its just a gimmick. the brutalness goes away once you realize that the people "singin" the songs are just a bunch of guys from florida. its not technical, infact most of it is pretty basic. subgenres are pointless. i stick to the basics, metal, alternative, progressive, country, r&b, ect.
do you want technical, change of seasons by dream theater. soaring melodies, complex time signatures, and winding patterns and musical directions. its not the same 4/4 time with a 3 million bpm blast beat about mutilation...


Dream Theater sucks.

See? I can bash your tastes too!

Quote by systematic_nois
but there you present another quagmire bro, if a metal band tries to do something different they are sellouts so they stay the same and dont progress


You can do different things and change up your sound and still be in your genre. Not really that hard, I think that's what he meant.
All Hail! The Kala-Kala Chieftain!
#28
Quote by HIM%(^
i used to listen to that stuff, until i realized that its stupid and its just a gimmick. the brutalness goes away once you realize that the people "singin" the songs are just a bunch of guys from florida. its not technical, infact most of it is pretty basic. subgenres are pointless. i stick to the basics, metal, alternative, progressive, country, r&b, ect.
do you want technical, change of seasons by dream theater. soaring melodies, complex time signatures, and winding patterns and musical directions. its not the same 4/4 time with a 3 million bpm blast beat about mutilation...


Generic death metal, grindcore, metalcore, black metal, etc. is all usually one big gimmick. However, the non-generic brutal death, grind, metalcore, black metal, whatever is not. Don't generalize. Also, the florida comment is pure ****ing idiocy. You are saying Death isn't brutal.

Quote by CodySG
Dream Theater sucks.


well aren't you full of poo?
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#29
in all honesty, how genuinly brutal can you be when you come from a state that is populated by predominatly retired 60 year old white guys and cubans....
#30
Quote by HIM%(^
in all honesty, how genuinly brutal can you be when you come from a state that is populated by predominatly retired 60 year old white guys and cubans....

go ask Glen Benton
#31
Quote by Contraband
well aren't you full of poo?


Just trying to make a point bro

*I enjoy DT quite a bit *
All Hail! The Kala-Kala Chieftain!
#32
Quote by HIM%(^
in all honesty, how genuinly brutal can you be when you come from a state that is populated by predominatly retired 60 year old white guys and cubans....


Alligators.

Alligators are fucking brutal.
All Hail! The Kala-Kala Chieftain!
#33
Quote by HIM%(^
in all honesty, how genuinly brutal can you be when you come from a state that is populated by predominatly retired 60 year old white guys and cubans....


Once again, you are saying that Death (and Morbid Angel, Obituary, Malevolent Creation, Deicide, etc.) aren't brutal? How the **** does where they originated from determine their level of brutality? Where would you want them to be from? Deepest darkest Papa New Guinean highlands?
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#34
Quote by Contraband
Once again, you are saying that Death (and Morbid Angel, Obituary, Malevolent Creation, Deicide, etc.) aren't brutal? How the **** does where they originated from determine their level of brutality? Where would you want them to be from? Deepest darkest Papa New Guinean highlands?


what is brutality? in my opinion, its their sound and vibe, and how the song makes you FEEL. just because you can play in minor harmonic and scream like a banshee doesnt make you heavy. death is good i like them. because it is evident that they have some sort of musical talent and steve digorgio is VERY good at bass. but again, calling a death metal band technical is almost a oxymoron because the songs are normally not that difficult.
#35
Quote by Contraband
How the **** does where they originated from determine their level of brutality? Where would you want them to be from?


THE DEEPEST MOST BRUTAL PART IN THE OCEAN. THE MARIANA TRENCH!!!
--
...and the world sighed in relief
#36
Quote by HIM%(^
what is brutality? in my opinion, its their sound and vibe, and how the song makes you FEEL. just because you can play in minor harmonic and scream like a banshee doesnt make you heavy. death is good i like them. because it is evident that they have some sort of musical talent and steve digorgio is VERY good at bass. but again, calling a death metal band technical is almost a oxymoron because the songs are normally not that difficult.


I lol at you. Go now and play a Necrophagist song and tell me how easy it is. Go play Atheist, Cynic, Augury, Dark Tranquillity, Decapitated, Nile, Behemoth, Cryptopsy, Cannibal Corpse, Arsis, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5ciJcksiEU go play that.
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Last edited by Contraband at Nov 11, 2007,
#37
Quote by Contraband
I lol at you. Go now and play a Necrophagist song and tell me how easy it is. Go play Atheist, Cynic, Augury, Dark Tranquillity, Decapitated, Nile, Behemoth, Cryptopsy, Cannibal Corpse, Arsis, etc.


ah, the common metal head who thinks his favorite bands are the gods of guitar. well lad, unless you know anything of theory, this wouldnt be an arguement. anybody and i mean ANYBODY can play a simple solo in a minor pentatonic or maybe if they are feeling risky they play in minor harmonic. do you know what a mode is? to play in 4/4 is pretty mediocre. lets see you memorize a song in 15/8 time that has a beautiful melody. in the presence of enemies part one? have you ever heard that song. that anally rapes your death metal oddities up the assholes.
that will be all
#39
Quote by HIM%(^
theres no reason whatsoever. all metal is is chrushing distorted guitars and sick drums and dark sound. anything that has that is metal. regardless of how the band looks. a bands look is by far the pettiest thing to judge a band on.
which is why i listen to dream theater.


not really. dream theater is metal... so you listen to the crushing distorted guitars and sick drums and dark sound of that?
read the lyrics for songs like Trapped in a Corner or Crystal Mountain by Death. These songs are definitely death metal even though progressive and they have lyrics that aren't about having sex and decrepit bodies. Suffocation is considered to be a br00tal death metal band and yet in Effigy of the Forgotten they write about death and going to heaven and how its deceiving. Behemoth is considered black/death metal and their song Scultping the Throne ov Seth is all about people reigning as if they were god's sculpting history into their vision.

honestly man. u can like dream theater and not like death metal or more extreme metal... but don't assume that metal is only distorted guitars, crazy drums, and a dark sound. Listen to bands like Sonata Arctica and Nightwish? do they sound dark... no! but they're still metal. Do doom metal bands have crazy drums? no but they're metal. Many metal bands have many parts of their songs that use clean guitars or reverb guitar sounds.

Also, how many bands that are not metal use distorted guitars, crazy drums, and a dark sound? a lot... so stop generalizing, get off your high throne holding your weiner and respect that there are many aspects of metal and metal has grown so much as a genre that it basically has as many differences from band to band as do one blues band to another or rock bands can sound completely different.

by the way: Cynic, Atheist, Pestilence, Opeth, are all like dream theater, are all metal, and all have distinct visions that they express in their music that don't revolve around having sex and dead bodies.

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#40
Quote by HIM%(^
ah, the common metal head who thinks his favorite bands are the gods of guitar. well lad, unless you know anything of theory, this wouldnt be an arguement. anybody and i mean ANYBODY can play a simple solo in a minor pentatonic or maybe if they are feeling risky they play in minor harmonic. do you know what a mode is? to play in 4/4 is pretty mediocre. lets see you memorize a song in 15/8 time that has a beautiful melody. in the presence of enemies part one? have you ever heard that song. that anally rapes your death metal oddities up the assholes.
that will be all


You're an idiot if only for not being relevant to what I suggested (which was can you play anything from those bands? - not a stab at your skill level, just a stab at you being a twat). Then, you totally ignore what I say and generalize, assume I don't know anything about music, assume that my favourite bands are the gods of guitar, and assume that I only listen to death metal.

**** you. I listen to more than metal if that's what you were going for, and proud. ****ing stereotypes and prejudice. Enough of that bull****.

In fact, Dream Theater is in my top 5 bands and I'm very well versed in their discography.
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