#1
I don't understand how you know when someone is playing in say, something like A-Phrygian? How do you distinguish it from E-Locrian, since they both have that b2? When I ask this, I'm thinking in this case of improvising, in say jazz or whatever style.

I can see how building a chord progression from one of these would sound different, but how do you know exactly which mode is being used, since there are 3 minor, 3 major, and one diminished (I think of Locrian as minor, not sure if that's the correct way to go about it)?

Also, is it better to find the primary chords for a certain scale/mode and key, and make that little progression when trying to find the mood of the scale than to simply play it from the root to the octave? I found that with the latter all I get is a sense of varying amounts of dissonance, which don't "fill me in" as well as with making that primary progression.
Originally Posted by SkyValley
yeah im a virgin but im also pretty good at things like ping-pong and drawing pictures of people playing water polo so it balances out
#2
So if someone's playing in C major, and they play a lick/phrase that starts on E and ends on E, it would be considered being in E-phrygian, regardless of the other notes (appropriate to the key) in between ? Sorry if I'm being overly analytical (I have a tendency for that) but I just want to make sure I know no matter what.
Originally Posted by SkyValley
yeah im a virgin but im also pretty good at things like ping-pong and drawing pictures of people playing water polo so it balances out
#3
Quote by Baasoromyuu
So if someone's playing in C major, and they play a lick/phrase that starts on E and ends on E, it would be considered being in E-phrygian, regardless of the other notes (appropriate to the key) in between ? Sorry if I'm being overly analytical (I have a tendency for that) but I just want to make sure I know no matter what.


I think is more about the chords progression that you're improvising with. I mean, you can play the same lick of E- phrygian on a C major chord progression and a E minor progression, and should have a different feel.
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#4
Quote by Galvanise69
E phrygian ha two Es in the "scale"
B locrian has two Bs and only one E in the scale.

Difference!

Can somone help me with modal soloing. I just dont get it. Soloing in C. C ionian, D dorian, E phrygian, F lydian, G mixolydian, A aeolian, B locrian.

Same notes in all of them. How do you acually define a solo like, hey im in C ionian, giong to f lydian, and make it sound different and good, not just noodling around...


The difference is supposed to be that you start each scale on the next ascending note of the C major (or ionion) scale. Playing the modes in one key is done to demonstrate the different feel of each mode.

applying those modes to your improv is a different matter entirely... you have to think of the modes purely as intervals. when you want to play something that sounds a little spanish, or a little exciting and tense, you want the phrygian mode. But if you're improvising on the fly, in the key of F, the formula of following the scale up to the right mode becomes cumbersome and confusing. You want to play F Phrygian, and you want to play it NOW. You must learn the interval pattern of the mode, and then you can play it starting from any note you please. For example, phrygian's pattern is:

1 - b2 - b3 - 4 - 5 - b6 - b7 (4 flats)

(whereas the standard major scale is 1-2-3-4-5-6-7) (no flats). it's best to think of interval patterns in terms of the major scale as a starting point.

so if you start on any F note and want to play phrygian riffs, you can play the next fret up for the minor second, skip another fret to land on the minor 3rd... the fourth is the same fret as your root, but on the next string, and the fifth is in that old familiar power chord position... and so on.... the point is, if you think of modes as moveable interval patterns, you can apply them all over the place.

remember that modal play sounds best over one or *maybe* two chord riffs... any more complex and you run into clashes with the minor and major rules for building chords. hope this helps.
Last edited by frigginjerk at Nov 13, 2007,
#5
Quote by Baasoromyuu
I don't understand how you know when someone is playing in say, something like A-Phrygian? How do you distinguish it from E-Locrian, since they both have that b2? When I ask this, I'm thinking in this case of improvising, in say jazz or whatever style.

I can see how building a chord progression from one of these would sound different, but how do you know exactly which mode is being used, since there are 3 minor, 3 major, and one diminished (I think of Locrian as minor, not sure if that's the correct way to go about it)?

Also, is it better to find the primary chords for a certain scale/mode and key, and make that little progression when trying to find the mood of the scale than to simply play it from the root to the octave? I found that with the latter all I get is a sense of varying amounts of dissonance, which don't "fill me in" as well as with making that primary progression.


as i hinted at when i was helping the guy who jacked your thread...

playing complex or lengthy chord progressions over one single mode is a very hard thing to do, and seldom sounds that great... this is because a mode usually contains flatted notes that are not common to the major or minor scales, from which the vast majority of standard chords are formed. basically, the presence of the modal notes makes the chords sound out of place.

the best way to have success writing progressions over modal riffs is to use just one chord, and maybe an extra note here and there. the idea for the rhythm guitar is to only be playing chords or licks that contain the 1, 4 and 5, and maybe the 7th of the scale, so that the guy playing modally can be noticed. Most modes have altered 2nds, 3rds, 6ths and 7ths. Of course, rules still apply. if you're playing in locrian, which is by far the least used and least pleasant of all modes, you can't play power chords, because of the flatted 5th in the locrian mode. If playing lydian, you can't use a 4th, because that scale has an augmented 4th (#4).

i would recommend starting out by using modes with fewer altered notes if you must write big progressions over modes... the mixolydian is the same as the major scale, but with a minor 7th... something that is very easy to accommodate in chord progressions. The lydian mode is the same as the major scale, but with a sharp 4th, and not too many chords make use of the 4th; it's easily avoided in chord play.
Last edited by frigginjerk at Nov 13, 2007,