#1
I'm having trouble learning modes. I know the aeolian mode and all the positions but the others are ****ing with me. It's pretty frustrating, I was reading the "modes explained" lesson on here and I couldn't put it together I learned the sequences and they didn't seem to fit the keys the guy said they were in. Every root note was E. I know i'm reading it wrong I'm not saying the guy is wrong. I was able to learn the aeolian becasue I took it from a magazine and all the positions were laid out. I guees it's the "formula" I don't understand. Sorry if this seems idiotic. Any help would be apreciated.
Barf

Fender 70's reissue strat
Laney 120 mxd
Morley bad horsie 2
#2
THink of it like this.

We'll work in Gmajor.
The A Dorian mode is the 2nd mode of the G scale. It is simply the G major scale, but the starting note is the A note, or the 2nd note of the scale. Em is ofcourse E Aeolian, and that is the 6th note of the Gmaj or scale, so it is the 6th mode of the Gmaj scale.

edit:
So by just playing the G major scale, but starting at a different note, that is a mode.

And ofcourse you may not notice at first, but you can create different styles sonically by using the modes. As most notice between major and minor (ionian and aeolian modes, respectively) even though that are the exact same notes.
#3
Quote by Mattalac
It is simply the G major scale, but the starting note is the A note

Yes, it's true that the Root note of A dorian is the second note of G major and they contain the same notes, but its more that.

Modes are collections of intervals, and it helps to think of them as their own scales when trying to actually use them.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#4
Quote by Ænimus Prime
Yes, it's true that the Root note of A dorian is the second note of G major and they contain the same notes, but its more that.

Modes are collections of intervals, and it helps to think of them as their own scales when trying to actually use them.


Yes yes true.
Maybe I misread, i just got the impression the threadstarter knew that, now im all confused haha from over analysing his post.

What exactly are you trying to find out again, grapejuice. sorry!

Maybe this can help. Try learning all the modes in 3 note per string shapes.
You only need three shapes. That helped me a lot when I started with modes.
#5
STANDARD RESPONSE TO MODES THREADS FOLLOWS

Okay, a mode of the major scale contains the same notes as the major scale, but the root is a different note. This is just explaining where modes come from, but I don't think of them like this when actually using them.
D Ionian (major) is D E F# G A B C#
E Dorian (second mode) is E F# G A B C# D
A mixolydian (fifth mode) is A B C# D E F# G
They contain the same notes but start on different root notes.

So, they contain the same notes but they are definately different scales. I think of modes as alterations to the major scale.
Ionian (Major) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Dorian 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Lydian 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
Mixolydian 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian (Natural Minor) 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

So, for F Phrygian you start with the F major scale, F G A Bb C D E
Then flatten the 2 3 6 and 7 to get 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
And you end up with the notes F Gb Ab Bb C Db Eb.

Now, when playing modes over chords, look at the intervals making up the chord and the intervals making up the mode. If they match up, they will sound good together.
Say a Cm chord comes up, thats 1 b3 5. Look at the modes and you see that Dorian, Phrygian and Aeolian all contain those intervals.
So you could play C Dorian, C Phrygian or C Aeolian, which one you chose will give a different feel.
Now if an Amaj7 comes along, thats 1 3 5 7. Compare that to the modes and you see that you can play A Ionian or A Lydian, againg giving different feels.
What about a Bbm7b5? You see that the only mode with 1 b3 b5 b7 is Locrian, so you can play Bb Locrian
With an E7 (1 3 5 b7) you find that only Mixolydian fits, so you can play E mixolydian

JohnlJones Jazz-Theory Bit:
With that E7 you could play E Phrygian, with the b3 funtioning as a #2, to outline an altered dominant chord.
E7 - 1 3 4 b7
E Phrygian 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
This gives the intervals 1 b2 #2 3 4 5 b6 b7 which is a _11b9#9b13 chord.

Remember none of this is law, it's just a guide so don't be afraid to experiment.
Hope this helps

The way to use modes and get their different sounds is to think of the intervals it is made up of. Phrygian has a b2, a dark, dissononant interval. Lydian has a #4, which sounds... I dunno how to describe it but it sounds cool. Mixolydian is like the major scale but has a b7, making it bluesy and dominant.

Just drone the low E string, keep it ringing (clean setting works best). Then on the remaining five stings, play E Phrygian, E lydian, E Aeloian, E Ionian etc. and emphasise the unique intervals in each. Really listen to each scales' characteristics. Try making a melody from each mode while droning the E string.

Once you have done this, watch this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWHKeC4IEgA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoGQ9yHOyZQ
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#6
...also, do you know the notes on the fretboard and have a good knowledge of the major scale all over the neck in every key. If you don't then go back and do that and come back to modes in a few months, once you have that under your belt you'll find that modes make an awful lot more sense.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#8
Reading that stuff Ænimus Prime pasted made me feel dumb before when I didn't understand it. Try "Jon Finn Advanced Modern Rock Guitar Improvisation", that book rules. What mode you use depends on the chords behind it and when using that mode you have to use the characteristic notes for each mode to sound more like how everyone describes them as. *Hopes I'm right to some degree*
#10
Quote by shoted
What mode you use depends on the chords behind it and when using that mode you have to use the characteristic notes for each mode to sound more like how everyone describes them as. *Hopes I'm right to some degree*
Yes, thats right. But you dont HAVE to do anything, it's your music. And the listener will still be able to hear trace amounts of the feel of each mode just in the chord.

But just remember that what really gives the feel of each note you play in your melody/solo is the interval behind it. And many jazzers believe that the characterist notes of each mode (M6 of dorian, m2 of phyrgian) should be used as avoid notes, as in dont sustain long on them and only use them as passing notes.

Personally I disagree as these notes can add alot of cool sounding tension when sustained, but can still give that nice edge when used as avoid notes.

And to Aenimus Prime's standard response
Just a little off topic, but shouldn't the standard theory be from alterations from aeolian and not from ionian? Why is Ionian the I chord? All theory I have learnt so far has been based around the major scale and the ionian mode.

All the non-accidental notes are the A minor scale and the C major scale, but A is the start of the alphabet, not C. I mean, we dont refer to all the white notes as A major (and have the chromatic notes as; A, A#, B, B#, C, D, D#, E, E#, F, F#, G), we refer to them as C major. But why?

Although very different (because one is minor and one is major) the aeolian is more consonant (therefore easier to resolve) as a minor mode than ionian as a major mode. Every interval seems to work fine in Aeolian. But in Ionian, the major seven collides with the octave, and yes I know a minor seven in a major mode is even more dissonant, but thats the flaw with major modes. So if the aeolian is more consonant than ionian, why is ionian the I chord, and therefore the resolving chord?

Should we really be refering to them as A minor? What if all modal and chordal theory was really meant to be based around the aeolian mode, and the aeolian mode was meant to be i and not the ionian mode? What if the church (who devised the ground works for modern and classical theory) wanted theory based around the minor scales? Which would make sense, as they were pretty depressing people with tales of hell and the killing of a man on a cross for our sins (guilt trip much?)

Just a little theory on music theory I thought up and remembered whilst reading aenimus's epic post. People who are interested will read my long boring post. I wouldnt mind if a theory genious gave me an answer.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.
#11
Oh yeah, and in b4 "any mode can be the I chord, especially aeolian." From my studies, I have found that the ONLY time a minor mode is the i chord is in melodic minor and harmonic minor (and other exotic scales). Ionian is always the I chord in proper theory, which sucks.

And sorry for not editing my post, apparently I can't edit posts with quotes in IE7.
        ,
        |\
[U]        | |                     [/U]
[U]        |/     .-.              [/U]
[U]       /|_     `-’       |      [/U]
[U]      //| \      |       |      [/U]
[U]     | \|_ |     |     .-|      [/U]
      *-|-*    (_)     `-’
        |
        L.