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#1
What I mean by this question is can you fill up your brain if you know/remember too much things. Like if you memorize the entire bible, is your brain gonna be to the point where it can't function as well as before since you use too much of it ? Or is does the brain expand more as you learn, memorize, do things?

Im asking this b/c I play guitar and I play basketball for my school and I also do my work in school, so I feel a little overloaded in my brain.
#2
I remember a study some nerd has done... he measured how much the brain could hold in gigabytes.

What a nerd.
#3
i really dont think theres a limit, at least not a reachable one

and what your feeling is called stress
#4
While I guess there must be a finite amount of information that a brain can hold(perhaps all the information the world contains?), it does so not by expanding, but by forming wrinkles,,I doubt that any person has ever even approached this value though
#5
Quote by rokket2005
While I guess there must be a finite amount of information that a brain can hold(perhaps all the information the world contains?), it does so not by expanding, but by forming wrinkles,,I doubt that any person has ever even approached this value though


QFT. We only actually use, on average, 15% of the old grey matter.
#6
I feel like if i know how to play 200+ songs on the guitar and I go to college and I try to memorize stuff for studying it might affect it and the brain is filled up too much
#7
well then, its probably time that limits us then. Because most people don't have time to memorize the bible, study foregin languages, learn songs, all at once. B/c most people use time to socialize and interact with other people or work in a job.
#8
Quote by lpmarshall
I feel like if i know how to play 200+ songs on the guitar and I go to college and I try to memorize stuff for studying it might affect it and the brain is filled up too much


It won't. Well, according to some models of memory it won't. Repetition helps form the pathways to remembering things. For example, you use your name often, so it becomes ingrained into your long term memory. If you look over college work often, that too will become ingrained in your memory, with a decent pathway. You learn and store so much stuff in your long term memory and it all doesn't affect each other, why would learning guitar and college work affect it? The only way you're college work would suffer is if you don't do it.
#9
Quote by lpmarshall
I feel like if i know how to play 200+ songs on the guitar and I go to college and I try to memorize stuff for studying it might affect it and the brain is filled up too much

Its not so much that you just overwrite you memory, its more because you simply forgot it through the lack of practice. If you go to college and have a **** load of homework you cant play those 200 songs and practice them. Therefore you forget them because of the lack of practice. If you sat on your ass and watched TV all day and never practiced the songs you would still forget them even though you are not learning anything new.
#10
Haha, this thread's just made my day.

Don't worry, you'll never reach your max.
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This is a site for musicians and you're all crying about the sad state of rock? Fuck that. I'm going to practice more and take over radio. I advise you all to do the same.
#11
lol.
you will not reach your memory limit.
--------------------i'm definitely the alphaest male here--------------------
#12
There was a russian guy with perfect memory. I do mean perfect. He could recite the bible backwards after reading it once 30 years ago.

It was not a blessing however. A normal person would look at a phone and be able to think of the number to dial easily. However, he would remember thousands of numbers he had seen and could no longer decide which to use. Similarly, he would want to eat but he would suddenly remember everything he had ever eaten or every meal he had ever seen.

He committed suicide at the age of 30 or something. If you want, I can look up the case study and put it up. Its in my psychology text book.

Yeah there are limits to what you can memorize. However, this guy did not reach that limit and he went insane.

Its kind of like with a computer. Would you want a 300000 gigabyte computer which takes 28 seconds to read every file? What if what you need is the last of those files.....

just an exaggerated example.
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#13
"did you know..."


"oh **** how do I open a door, my body forgot cos i just learnt that these chips are baked not fried oh god"
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Tell her
"I could be playing this *inserts Job For a Cowboys Doom Cd*
but i'd rather play this *inserts *David Crowder followed by Brewster*"

haha yeah that should work


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richrawr FTW!
#14
no limits on strong acid man. haha.
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Tissues are lame cuz then you gotta spend an hour gettin the little paper off of your dick
i just shoot it into my neighbors yard
not my problem anymore
#15
Certain people whom I've come across reached their limit by age 13-14.
Dear God, do you actually answer prayers?

Yes, but only in a way indistinguishable from random luck or the result of your own efforts.
#16
Quote by Deliriumbassist
QFT. We only actually use, on average, 15% of the old grey matter.

And this is coming from Dr. Phil, so this must be truth. The obvious truth, but still true!

Apparently, I am being dead serious, if all of our brain was able to be used, scientists believe that we would all have all sorts of psychic powers.
#17
Theres a theory that the other 85% is used for learning, rather than memory. So it is used in a way.
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#18
No it doesn't. The brain is like a muscle in this way, it grows the more you use it.
#19
Quote by NERV_UK
No it doesn't. The brain is like a muscle in this way, it grows the more you use it.


During a year of psychology (dont do it, it sucks -.-') I learnt that the brain will create a new neuro-pathway for each memory, and since there is an almost infinite number of passageways, its possible to remember an almost infinite amount.

The problem is, you just have to remember where it was stored, supposedly the brain has some sort of algorithm for storing things.

Im guessing this is what you were referring to?
#20
Yeh pretty much, also the specific areas you use, like the area for music (eg. Guitar) grow the more you use them.
#21
I love my psychology study!

But I do agree with your point about the storing things. Also, I don't know if you skull will actually expand if your brain keeps growing after a certain age. So there are limits, even though you can't possibly reach them (without going insane anyway)
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#22
The brain is a lump of gray crap, that's it, it doesn't expand or shrink, unless you get a ray gun and do just that. Provided you have enough time on your hands, say the rest of your life, you can fill up your brain until it can't hold anymore, though subconsciously you can't really imprint that knowledge and experience unless it happens again and again and again
hue
#23
Quote by sock_demon
The brain is a lump of gray crap, that's it, it doesn't expand or shrink, unless you get a ray gun and do just that. Provided you have enough time on your hands, say the rest of your life, you can fill up your brain until it can't hold anymore, though subconsciously you can't really imprint that knowledge and experience unless it happens again and again and again


It doesnt grow as in expand, it grows as in creating more pathways, linking ones that already exist etc. As long as you can remember the pathway, you can always remember the item. The problem is, if you dont use the pathway, you'll forget its even there.

This is why people get 'flashbacks'. Their brain just stumbles across an old pathway (sometiimes triggered by something another person said) and they remember it.

A common example of this is if someone asks you a question you know the answer to, but just cant think of it. Your brain is trying to find the answer, but it just cant find the correct route. When they give the answer, you instantly remember it.
#24
Quote by Mark G
Theres a theory that the other 85% is used for learning, rather than memory. So it is used in a way.


And when you lean stuff, what exactly are you doing?

MEMORISING.

And the brain technically can shrink if you kill off brain cells, because the body then removes the cells that underwent necrosis. However,. new brain cells aen't formed, methinks. There isn't enough stem cells in the cranium's bone marrow to facilitate it.
#25
I was always under the impression that there were only a certain amount of neurorecptors. So I thought that there is a limit.
#26
Quote by Deliriumbassist
And when you lean stuff, what exactly are you doing?

MEMORISING.

And the brain technically can shrink if you kill off brain cells, because the body then removes the cells that underwent necrosis. However,. new brain cells aen't formed, methinks. There isn't enough stem cells in the cranium's bone marrow to facilitate it.


actually, I think memorising is done in the hippocampus. Not in the cerebral cortex.

New brain cells (or neural connections) are formed on a regular basis. It is how we learn, and recover.

Also, I don't think there is bone marrow in the cranium. I thought this could only be found in a fetus or blastocyst, and from the human spine (in a later stage of development with more specificity)
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Last edited by Mark G at Nov 19, 2007,
#27
the neurones are there, the connections aren't. The neurones cannot be replaced. The neural connections are formed electrical pathways, which to be fair, are cells in the brain, but the existing neurones are the important parts. You have a set number of them from birth. The brain is the only organ which doesn't increase in size, which is why babie's heads are so disproportionate to the rest of the body.

EDIT:

Also, I don't think there is bone marrow in the cranium. I thought this could only gotten from a fetus, and from the human spine (in a later stage of development with more specificity)


Colonies of stem cells exist in many of the bones. It's where new immune cells begin production, and also it is because of these stem cells in bones that we get bone cancers, as only undifferentiated stem cells can become carcinogenic within the bone.
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at Nov 19, 2007,
#28
Quote by Deliriumbassist
the neurones are there, the connections aren't. The neurones cannot be replaced. The neural connections are formed electrical pathways, which to be fair, are cells in the brain, but the existing neurones are the important parts. You have a set number of them from birth. The brain is the only organ which doesn't increase in size, which is why babie's heads are so disproportionate to the rest of the body.

EDIT:


Colonies of stem cells exist in many of the bones. It's where new immune cells begin production, and also it is because of these stem cells in bones that we get bone cancers, as only undifferentiated stem cells can become carcinogenic within the bone.


Well, I'll take your word for that I study psychology not biology so I don't know all that much about stem cells. I always thought these were produced exclusively in the spine, but I could well be wrong about this.

I am also not so sure about the differences between neurons and neural connections. I always took them to be the same thing, but again I am no biologist.

I am only certain about the behavioral implications of memory, cerebral functioning and other such things. (the going insane bit, and social disfunction associated with excessive and deficient memory)
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Last edited by Mark G at Nov 19, 2007,
#29
Quote by Mark G
Well, I'll take your word for that I study psychology not biology so I don't know all that much about stem cells. I always thought these were produced exclusively in the spine, but I could well be wrong about this.

I am also not so sure about the differences between neurons and neural connections. I always took them to be the same thing, but again I am no biologist.


Yeah, I'm doing a biomedical degree and worked on cancer over the past 2 weeks. I shoulda mentioned that only malignant carcinomas are created by undifferentiated stem cells. My lecturer said the femur is a fun one for this. Lots of blood vessels and lymph nodes there.

I've always been led to believe that neurons were already there, and looked like dendritic nerve cells, and the neural connectors linked them together to become pathways (AS psychology teacher).

Then again, all this is still a very sensitive subject that is not completely proven yet, so we could just be discussing theories, lol.

EDIT: What might be interesting is that (this may have been done before, I've just thought about this) each neurone in the brain has a particular chemical stimulus, minisculey different from every other neurone in the brain. When you remember something, the chemical stimulus is released, the neural connector sends the neurosignal, and the information is retrieved. The more this happens, the more sensitive the neural connector becomes to the chemical, meaning that the information is accessed quicker and easier. When a new piece of information enters the short term memory, the neural connector is created, but the signals are weak. Also when a new piece of information to be learned is encountered, the brain automatically assigns a neurone to it.

How's THAT for a dissertation idea?
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at Nov 19, 2007,
#30
Quote by NERV_UK
No it doesn't. The brain is like a muscle in this way, it grows the more you use it.


wouldn't that make your head explode since your skull won't expand with your brain?

Well, so far as I know, no one has an adequate grasp on the concept of eternity. The brain is one amazing thing. I can remember the tune of 1000's of songs, play at least 100 songs, all the useless facts I hold in my brain, the grasp I have on abstract things (being an artist), and all the things I've memorized and all the things I have come up with. The concept of the human brain is fairly inconceivable as well.

#31
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Yeah, I'm doing a biomedical degree and worked on cancer over the past 2 weeks. I shoulda mentioned that only malignant carcinomas are created by undifferentiated stem cells. My lecturer said the femur is a fun one for this. Lots of blood vessels and lymph nodes there.

I've always been led to believe that neurons were already there, and looked like dendritic nerve cells, and the neural connectors linked them together to become pathways (AS psychology teacher).

Then again, all this is still a very sensitive subject that is not completely proven yet, so we could just be discussing theories, lol.


Haha so true. New things are discovered almost every day. Especialy concerning the brain and its function. It is very well possible that our teachers simply told us different things, since this area is changing so rapidly.

The way I was told is that neurons are newly created in the brain, although to a very minor extend. The majority of brain development is due to the production of dendrites connecting these neurons.

How is that biomedical degree working out? Sounds pretty cool.

On topic: I think there are limits to the human brain, (as shown by the poor guy going insane due to too much memory). If you wanted to be able to know everything, you would first have to improve your ability to selectively recall information from your memory.
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#32
Quote by Mark G
Haha so true. New things are discovered almost every day. Especialy concerning the brain and its function. It is very well possible that our teachers simply told us different things, since this area is changing so rapidly.

The way I was told is that neurons are newly created in the brain, although to a very minor extend. The majority of brain development is due to the production of dendrites connecting these neurons.

How is that biomedical degree working out? Sounds pretty cool.

On topic: I think there are limits to the human brain, (as shown by the poor guy going insane due to too much memory). If you wanted to be able to know everything, you would first have to improve your ability to selectively recall information from your memory.


It's a good degree. Get to work in a pathology lab for 6 weeks cutting up cancers and stuff, lol.

Photographic memory seem to be a lesser form than what that guy had. I'm not sure if it's possible to improve your memory by much to get to the extent of remembering everything though. Sure, you can improve memory a little bit, but I doubt by vast amounts.

And check out the edit on my last post
#33
I cant remember the name of the guy, but I remember reading about a guy who trained his memory to the extent he could memorise the entire nights sky. He was some semi-famous astronomer, im gonan google try find him...
#34
Quote by Deliriumbassist
It's a good degree. Get to work in a pathology lab for 6 weeks cutting up cancers and stuff, lol.

Photographic memory seem to be a lesser form than what that guy had. I'm not sure if it's possible to improve your memory by much to get to the extent of remembering everything though. Sure, you can improve memory a little bit, but I doubt by vast amounts.

And check out the edit on my last post


Haha its a pretty nifty idea The textbook sais that neurononal connections (dendrites) that are used often are strenghtened, and those that aren't used deteriorate until they are reabsorbed.

It does not specify however if this strengthening is biological like you are suggesting, or if it is physical (more/larger dendrites are created).

I wish you luck if you want to prove it is miniscul amounts of chemical messengers that instigate this growth. I think it is more likely due to the electric activity of sodium and potassion in neurons, and their sodium-potassion pumps. For example, if these can no longer keep up with the neuronal firing additional connections are made to share the load. Excessive amounts of sodium in the neurons would then be the factor instigating growth. (since this would show the pumps can't keep up)

Just my theory

I apologise to all who read my posts and become utterly confused.
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Last edited by Mark G at Nov 19, 2007,
#35
lol, I see what you're saying, but what if the Na/K pumps in each individual dendrite metaphases to become sensitive to these particular chemicals, and therefore becoming more efficient? Obviously, more neurones to take the workload is a posibility, but then again, does the strength of the signal determine how well you remember after a certain voltage? It may be the case that a weak signal won't trigger whatever process alloows us to remember, but after a certain point, would an increased voltage affect this? Also, more signals doesn't necessarily mean a quicker response.
#36
Quote by Deliriumbassist
lol, I see what you're saying, but what if the Na/K pumps in each individual dendrite metaphases to become sensitive to these particular chemicals, and therefore becoming more efficient? Obviously, more neurones to take the workload is a posibility, but then again, does the strength of the signal determine how well you remember after a certain voltage? It may be the case that a weak signal won't trigger whatever process alloows us to remember, but after a certain point, would an increased voltage affect this? Also, more signals doesn't necessarily mean a quicker response.


Neurons function according to an all or none principle: If a neuron fires, it fires. The strength of the signal does not change if the stimulus is stronger. Rather, the timing of the firing is altered. (more firings per second for stronger stimulae) So a stronger voltage won't help.

In this context, faster firing would mean a stronger response. This is why I suggest additional neurons, since two neurons can process twice as many signals in the same time as one neuron can.

What will also help is a greater diameter of the dendrites and axons. A larger diameter allows for a more rapid intake of sodium, making the process more efficient. However, the Na/k pumps are still the limiting factor.

It is a shame we don't know exactly how information is stored. In fact, we know absolutely nothing about this. (sure its in the brain somewhere but thats it) It information stored in a cell, or is it some sort of storage of electrical energy? Perhaps it is the transmission of signals in a certain pattern.....sigh so much to study and so little time.

*edit* the brain is grey, because the neuron nucleus is black, but the myelin sheath covering the axons is white. Black + white = gray I remember someone saying the brain is just a glob of gray crap....its actually black and white
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Last edited by Mark G at Nov 19, 2007,
#37
agreed, the brain is far too complex to be fully understood, in our lifetime at least.

I do see your points, and they're damn good ones. However, another possibility may be this. Even the smallest change in constitution of cytoplasm can cause major differences in the way a cell works. Maybe it isn't the dendrite that causes memory, but the actual storage areas themselves? If this storage is cellular, there is nothing stopping a chemical change from responding better to a charge. If memory is indeed biological, or even a mix of biological and physical (as most things happen), then maybe the chemicals I mentioned are released as some sort of factor within the storage cell, stimulated initially by the signal, and this changes the chemical balance within the storage. There may be some sort of limitation or reversalon this, as we can forgot things. Maybe if we don't use that particular storage, the "change factor" may simply be disposed of, meaning the signal is no longer as effective.

The man who went insane may not have had the limiting factor, and those who suffer memory loss may have lost the change factor completely. But I don't feel that this can be answered purely biologically or physically, but it's a matter of both.
#38
Quote by Deliriumbassist
agreed, the brain is far too complex to be fully understood, in our lifetime at least.

I do see your points, and they're damn good ones. However, another possibility may be this. Even the smallest change in constitution of cytoplasm can cause major differences in the way a cell works. Maybe it isn't the dendrite that causes memory, but the actual storage areas themselves? If this storage is cellular, there is nothing stopping a chemical change from responding better to a charge. If memory is indeed biological, or even a mix of biological and physical (as most things happen), then maybe the chemicals I mentioned are released as some sort of factor within the storage cell, stimulated initially by the signal, and this changes the chemical balance within the storage. There may be some sort of limitation or reversalon this, as we can forgot things. Maybe if we don't use that particular storage, the "change factor" may simply be disposed of, meaning the signal is no longer as effective.

The man who went insane may not have had the limiting factor, and those who suffer memory loss may have lost the change factor completely. But I don't feel that this can be answered purely biologically or physically, but it's a matter of both.


I agree. Possibilities are endless but proof is nowhere to be found at this point. A dualist might show up and argue that knowledge and the mind are purely spiritual and separate from the body. He can't prove it but we can't prove him wrong. If he is right, there would be absolutely no limit to memory, only to the recall of this from the spiritual realm. (which could be the function of the brain)

I think an interesting way to study memory and its consolidation would be to compare the differences between ordinary people and master chess players. Arguably, chess players have are more capable with the recall and consolidation of information from memory. If these guys possess larger amounts of those chemical agents you mentioned, it could support your theory. Then again, chances are these guys also have more brain mass/neural connections perhaps due to other differences.
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#40
Learn some basic biology. Then come back.
Populus vult decipi. Decipiatur.

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If you cut down on these costs students won't learn so well, effecting the "quality"...
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