#1
Here's a question for those members of UG whom possess a vast knowledge of the genre of metal, and rock.

I've just about always loved metal, and am trying out more and more types (death, black, power, melodeath, prog, etc) as I find them. However, the bands that got me into metal in the first place were definitely Metallica, Iron Maiden, and Megadeth. Before that, I mainly listened to rock, like Led Zeppelin and Guns 'N Roses, Aerosmith, etc.

Now, the question is, aside from those types of metal which are certainly quite different, what are the defining lines between music that is decidedly within the family of metal, and what is hard rock?
#2
Overall intensity, the guitar work, lyrical content, the singing style, even the band member's life styles themselves can really determine that for most people.
But like most things, it's based partly, if not mostly on the opinion of the listener, and that's really what matters, anyway.
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#3
I try to think of genres as not being divided at all, but being intertwined, sharing basic ideas and bases but differing in the exact applications. For example, metal and classical are very close as rock and blues are, yet some metal players also apply blues tones to their playing. Basically what I'm saying is that there is only one form of music, and some different facets of it.

However, I do tend to think of hard rock as driving rock/metal and borderline hardcore
Hard rock to me is also just a sub-family of rock while metal is its own family with many of its own facets
#4
To me, metal makes me wanna put my foot on the monitor and grab my package, and hard rock makes me wanna headbang and do some girls.
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#5
Hard Rock has more audible blues influence than Heavy Metal does. Metal often times will have blues based guitar solos.... but the overall melodies in heavy metal typically go far beyond the blues, more into the realm of classical music. Hard Rock is basically blues with the tempo sped up, swing feel removed, and more distortion.
#6
I agree that I don't see genres as being divided, with any band able to incorporate many different kinds of music. It's not a matter of what's better or worse, just different.

Part of what made me think about was seeing how a lot of metalheads react to a previously metal band becoming a little bit more like hard rock, to an almost always negative reaction. I was curious as to why. It could just be elitism, but I wasn't sure if anything else had to do with it as well.
#7
I see them as being clearly divided like so:

HARD ROCK

- Largely blues based
- Emphasis on simple, accentuated rhythms
- Pentatonic solos
- Dirty, melodic singing

METAL

- Blues-influenced, but also takes influence from classical and jazz
- Changes in rhythm, time signiature, tempo ect. not uncommon
- Very direct, driving rhythms
- Solos based on modes
- Range of singing styles, from guttural, rhythmic death vocals to soaring clean power metal melodies
Quote by marmoseti
Mastering your instrument is being able to play whatever you hear in your head, unhindered by inadequate technique. After that, it's all about what you've got to say, so there would be no "best," just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean.
#8
Quote by fastlanestoner
To me, metal makes me wanna put my foot on the monitor and grab my package, and hard rock makes me wanna headbang and do some girls.


That's funny, 'cuz Hard Rock makes me wanna grab my package, put my foot on the monitor and do some girls, while Metal makes me wanna headbang, pound some beer, and do girls!
#9
The reason metal would usually get the vote in this is because metal branches of into many more genres than hard rock, there's more to choose from.
#10
Metal in some of its forms (Ozzy-era Black Sabbath and Alabama Thunderpussy, for example) is hardly distinguishable from hard rock. So yeah, it can be hard to figure out where the line is sometimes.

Basically, there are certain elements to the sound that can be picked out, but it often takes time to figure out what these elements are and where they fit. It's kind of like how a non-metal listener would think that metalcore and death metal sounded the same; you need to listen to the genres to be able to figure out where the differences are.

The easiest way to tell is by how "heavy" the band is. Sometimes that can be ambiguous, because the term "heavy" can mean a lot of different things, and when it is, that's when you start to look for those other elements.
#11
Quote by F-ing Hostile
The reason metal would usually get the vote in this is because metal branches of into many more genres than hard rock, there's more to choose from.


Once again, you fail at reading.

This isn't a question of which is better, just what makes them different.

Quote by Scourge441
Metal in some of its forms (Ozzy-era Black Sabbath and Alabama Thunderpussy, for example) is hardly distinguishable from hard rock. So yeah, it can be hard to figure out where the line is sometimes.

Basically, there are certain elements to the sound that can be picked out, but it often takes time to figure out what these elements are and where they fit. It's kind of like how a non-metal listener would think that metalcore and death metal sounded the same; you need to listen to the genres to be able to figure out where the differences are.

The easiest way to tell is by how "heavy" the band is. Sometimes that can be ambiguous, because the term "heavy" can mean a lot of different things, and when it is, that's when you start to look for those other elements.


I see what you mean, and that makes a lot of sense.

Is it just elitism that makes metal people hate when a metal band becomes a little more Hard Rock?
Last edited by Delanoir at Dec 1, 2007,
#12
Metal in some of its forms (Ozzy-era Black Sabbath and Alabama Thunderpussy, for example) is hardly distinguishable from hard rock. So yeah, it can be hard to figure out where the line is sometimes.


Ozzy Era Sabbath? Hardly distinguishable?

C'mon, listen to that stuff beside bands like AC/DC, Van Halen, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, ect. There's a very clear difference in sound.

EDIT: I stopped ignoring your second paragraph just now.

Makes sense, yeah, but the whole soundscape of Sabbath is clearly something much darker than any predecessors.
Quote by marmoseti
Mastering your instrument is being able to play whatever you hear in your head, unhindered by inadequate technique. After that, it's all about what you've got to say, so there would be no "best," just a bunch of people saying exactly what they mean.
Last edited by MadassAlex at Dec 1, 2007,
#13
Quote by MadassAlex
Ozzy Era Sabbath? Hardly distinguishable?

C'mon, listen to that stuff beside bands like AC/DC, Van Halen, Zeppelin, Deep Purple, ect. There's a very clear difference in sound.

Well, there's a pretty clear difference in sound between Van Halen and Led Zeppelin, too. In fact, those bands you post all sound fairly different from each other.

And is it really a stretch to say that Black Sabbath could be considered hard rock alongside those bands?

Quote by MadassAlex
EDIT: I stopped ignoring your second paragraph just now.

Makes sense, yeah, but the whole soundscape of Sabbath is clearly something much darker than any predecessors.

Well, yeah, that darker soundscape is one of the elements that makes them metal as opposed to hard rock.

Quote by Delanoir
Is it just elitism that makes metal people hate when a metal band becomes a little more Hard Rock?

Well, with the obvious case (Metallica), it was a band completely abandoning its old sound for the sake of record sales (ie selling out) that made metal fans hate them.

Otherwise, you'd have to give another example of this happening.
Last edited by Scourge441 at Dec 1, 2007,
#14
Quote by Delanoir
Is it just elitism that makes metal people hate when a metal band becomes a little more Hard Rock?


I'd say no.

Although I assume you're using examples like Metallica's Load and Reload albums, which were textbook examples of a band selling out.

Quote by Scourge441
Well, with the obvious case (Metallica), it was a band completely abandoning its old sound for the sake of record sales (ie selling out) that made metal fans hate them.

Otherwise, you'd have to give another example of this happening.


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#15
Quote by Scourge441
Well, with the obvious case (Metallica), it was a band completely abandoning its old sound for the sake of record sales (ie selling out) that made metal fans hate them.

Otherwise, you'd have to give another example of this happening.


Well, that is probably the best example I can think of

I just never really saw it as selling out, I guess. I figured they were just trying something new. A lot of bands change over time. I mean, I can see what you mean, but I guess that's just my opinion.

Regardless, I understand what you're saying.
#16
Yeah, and even if those examples are a little fuzzy, St. Anger was undeniably a/an (horrid) attempt at nu-metal, which was, though on the decline, still a fairly popular genre of music in 2005.

Oh well.
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#17
Quote by Delanoir
Well, that is probably the best example I can think of

I just never really saw it as selling out, I guess. I figured they were just trying something new. A lot of bands change over time. I mean, I can see what you mean, but I guess that's just my opinion.

Regardless, I understand what you're saying.

Load and Reload were entirely the product of Bob Rock AFAIK. I think they actually said they hired him because they wanted to make their sound more accessible.