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#1
I state in another thread earlier that I'm planning on doing a "blind" amp test, mainly because I want to to see if I can see if I can knock the bandwagon over, and start dispelling myths that are being created (or turn those myths in to fact).

I've got an idea of how I'm going to run things.....

1 decent and consistant guitar player (not me at the moment... haha...).
1 recording setup.
1 or 2 accessory pedals at the MOST. Still thinking on not using any at all period.
1 or 2 guitars. Stock equips on both.

134098275205 amps... Okay, maybe not that many, but as many as I can get my hands on.

I'm trying to keep everything BUT the amps to a minimum for sake of consistancy. And I'll probably just do combos (because cabs throw in another factor to sound, and one head may work well with one cab, but suck with another).

BUT... this is where I need help from you guys...

I need help catagorizing some amps. I know many amps can be quite versatile, but I may put them in their own little catagory as well, or just let them overlap (dunno yet).

So, if I can get suggestions... I'd like your help by having people list down their favorite specific makes and models for the following (tube/hybrid/SS):

5 Watt practice amps

15+ Watt Clean amps

15+ Watt Rock type amps

15+ Watt Metal type amps

I can't include every amp admittedly, but I'm going to go by numbers here, so if 20 people mention a particular one for cleans, and only one mentions some off brand that no one's heard off, I'll probably leave that offbrand out.

Also if people have any ideas that you think I should incorporate in my "tasting," feel free to let me know!!!
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#2
Sounds like a cool idea, i think a while ago someone did the same thing between a tube amp and a ss amp, but most people could tell. How can you regulate all the stuff if its different people testing the amps tho?
#3
I only plan on having 1 guitarist testing, In order to keep things consistent, I'm trying to make it so EVERYTHING but the amps in question pretty much stay the same.

I know it's not going to be the PERFECT test, but I'm gonna try to do my best with it.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#4
I've done something like this on UG in the past. I recorded a few different clips with two different amps, one being SS and the other tube, to see who could tell the difference. I'm sure it'd end up the same way mine did. I remember the thread having 500+ views with only 2 or 3 guesses. After I revealed which was which, people popped up with the typical "I could tell number so and so were SS because they sounded kind of dull."

The funny part, the two or three people that actually said something beforehand guessed that the the clips I recorded with a Peavey XXL 2x12 combo (SS amp) were tube. People are afraid to be wrong.
#5
The beauty of tubes is their natural, in person sound.

Once you take that sound and convert it into a digital computer file, it loses quite a bit, and becomes very difficult to distinguish from a quality SS or modeling amp. Or otherwise digitally produced sound.

So it may make for a fun internet game, but the digital nature of the internet makes it impossible to prove or dispell anything in the analog-digital, tube-SS debates.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#6
May I make one stipulation though. You must EQ them with all the dials at 12 oclock. I could make a decent amp sound worse than it is just to try and prove a point, if you got me. Not that I'm saying you're trying to do that, but yeah.

Like Slats said, it's much harder to tell through computer speakers than in real life, but hell, could be a fun game
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#7
^ That's what I was thinking about with settings... I would have to keep them the same.

And the digital concern.... Someone metioned to me that youtubing probably wouldn't be the best, mainly because of that, so now I'm contemplating mp3 clips.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#8
Mp3 is, obviously, digital as well. The highest quality mp3 just offers a higher sampling rate. The magic of tubes is the way they fill your ear with harmonics. That'll get lost in any digital recording.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#9
Also, to me, a lot of playing a tube amp is the feel from it. How well it articulates, responds to picking dynamics, etc. It's hard for me to hear that stuff sometimes in other people's playing, but it's so easy to tell when I'm the one plugged in.

I don't know if that really makes sense to anybody.

For the experiment, try as hard as possible to control everything, except what amp it is. Same EQ settings on the amp, same guitar, same pickup selected on the guitar, same volume/tone controls on the guitar, same guitarist, same riffs, etc. Maybe try and do a clean and an overdriven and a heavily distorted with each and maybe try and do one cranked and one at a more reasonable volume for each.

But for amps to include in the experiment, I think it would be best to really run the gamut and get as many different ones as possible, ones that I can think of are:
Carvin V3
Carvin Legacy
Carvin Vintage Series
Crate Palomino
Crate Blue Voodoo (although I don't think those come as a combo)
Crate XT or GT or whatever the SS ones are
Epiphone Valve Junior/Valve Standard
Fender Blues Jr.
Fender Hot Rod Deville
Fender Vibrochamp
Fender Champ 600
Laney LC
Laney VC
Line 6 Flextone
Line 6 Vetta
Line 6 Spider II/III
Traynor YCV40
Traynor YCV40WR
Traynor YCV50Blue
Marshall DSL401
Marshall JCM800
Marshall JCM900
Mesa Boogie Express 5:25/50
Mesa Boogie F series
Orange Rocker 30
Orange AD30
Peavey Classic 30/50
Peavey Valveking
Peavey XXX
Peavey XXL
Peavey 5150/6505
Roland Cube
Roland Jazz Chorus
Vox Valvetronix
Vox Valvetronix XL
Vox AC30
Vox AC15
#10
It should still fairly accurately portray the tone, digital or otherwise.

And I mispoke earlier about what I wanted to do with the EQ. In fact. I want to try to make each amp sound as good as can be, regardless of SS or tube. Main reason is thus:

Can you really tell "lower" quality amp with a "higher" quality amp? And putting the EQ all at 12 (or whatever) won't portray that. It'll only show which amps sound better at, well... 12.

So, if you EQ'd a SS amp as good as possible, and did the same with a tube, played the same song, with the same recording equipment, on the same format file... What would a listener think?

That's what I'm looking for.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
Last edited by Hakael at Dec 11, 2007,
#11
I may need to narrow it down now that I'm looking at amp lists, lol.

My main idea... like stated above, is to either debunk myths about equipment, or make them fact (ok, well not really fact, but I think you get my meaning). And not from so much the players point of view, because yeah, a player can feel the difference usually with what they're playing, but from the listener's view. Let's face it. People play so people can listen. They're the eye of the beholder so to speak.

I'm looking to prove (or disprove) things like:

SS can't do/sound like tubes.

Hybrids are a gimmick.

A $400 amp won't sound nearly as good as a $1200 amp (you get what you pay for syndrome).

And those are probably some of the bigger ones, and I may come up with others as I go along.

Hope that clears things up!
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#12
Quote by slatsmania
The beauty of tubes is their natural, in person sound.

Once you take that sound and convert it into a digital computer file, it loses quite a bit, and becomes very difficult to distinguish from a quality SS or modeling amp. Or otherwise digitally produced sound.

So it may make for a fun internet game, but the digital nature of the internet makes it impossible to prove or dispell anything in the analog-digital, tube-SS debates.



i agree. well either that or i have to admit to sucking royally at these blind comparison clip competitions.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Quote by gibsonpenguin
Also, to me, a lot of playing a tube amp is the feel from it. How well it articulates, responds to picking dynamics, etc. It's hard for me to hear that stuff sometimes in other people's playing, but it's so easy to tell when I'm the one plugged in.

I don't know if that really makes sense to anybody.



it makes perfect sense, and i agree wholeheartedly.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#14
totally agree with slats here. anyway, if you're really intent upon this keep everything as similar as possible. same guitarist, same guitar, same riffs (you can deviate but play at least a few of the exact same chords and riffs), eqs in the same place, volume levels, your recording equipment, the place you'll be recording, etc. this is going to be difficult, though, as i don't know if you'll be able to get the beauty of rich, power tube saturated tone, but go for it nonetheless. i don't see how you're going to be able to get so many different amps to record though...are you rich, or are you hoping the guitar center guys will let you spend a few hours recording 20 different amps?
#15
There's a lot that can change how a recording sounds. Even if you're just trying to capture what the amp is capable of, mic placement is key. People who have done studio work will have an advantage over those who haven't, even though the majority of UG'ers most likely haven't done any studio work, big or small.

I'm still not too sure on how you're going to manage to get this done? You want to record clips of a variety of amps, yet I doubt you have access to or own most of the amps you'd like to record clips of. Especially if you want only one guitarist to do all this work.
#16
You need a control group and an experimental group. Be careful to accurately assess and compensate for all variables. At the conclusion crunch the statistices using standard deviation, the mean and the average. This yields a standardized score. Make sure your sample size is large enough and representative. You may want to develope a numerical rating system as objective as humanly possible.
Some charts and graphs would be useful.
#18
^ As I read that I was thinking, "this guy sounds like the science teacher I had back in 8th grade."
#19
Quote by uldhppi
You need a control group and an experimental group. Be careful to accurately assess and compensate for all variables. At the conclusion crunch the statistices using standard deviation, the mean and the average. This yields a standardized score. Make sure your sample size is large enough and representative. You may want to develope a numerical rating system as objective as humanly possible.
Some charts and graphs would be useful.

if he's going to have 2 different groups and is computing based on ranking, he will have to input his data into a mann-whitney u. ts, find your u value and compare this to the critical value dictated by your n1 and n2 at the 5% level to prove or disprove the null hypothesis.
#20
Quote by Dave_Mc
it makes perfect sense, and i agree wholeheartedly.


Also, it's important to remember that we have no notion of the volume recorded at. If you were clipping all the amps it would be so easy to tell them apart, but alas not.
Ibanez PGM301
Ibanez GRG170DX
Fender Telecaster MiJ - 1986
Swing T-Through

Ibanez TS9DX
Sovtek Small Stone - c.1985
EHX Big Muff
Kimbara Wah - c.1974
Boss GE-7

Orange Rocker 30 Combo

http://www.myspace.com/paythelay
#21
Quote by climhazzard
if he's going to have 2 different groups and is computing based on ranking, he will have to input his data into a mann-whitney u. ts, find your u value and compare this to the critical value dictated by your n1 and n2 at the 5% level to prove or disprove the null hypothesis.
#23
Aw, you took my idea.
I was gonna make some vids on youtube of me playin my friends MG, but sayin its not, then once people say **** like 'Gr34t ton3z0rz!' id jump out and be like 'its an MG!'
or somethin like that.
#24
haha there are already videos on youtube of people playing through mgs, saying they are mgs, and other people saying "HOLY SHIEET THAT SOUNDS LIKE SEX!" it's kinda funny.
#25
Quote by climhazzard
haha there are already videos on youtube of people playing through mgs, saying they are mgs, and other people saying "HOLY SHIEET THAT SOUNDS LIKE SEX!" it's kinda funny.

Fat f***?
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#27
Quote by climhazzard
? search on youtube.

It was a joke.
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#28
Hey- this souds interesting. I've got these amps available and can probably do clips over winter break:
Fender Bassman 10
Fender HRD
Epi Valve Junior
Fender Deluxe Reverb
Vox AD15
Roland Cube 30
Cage Corsa
Marshall AVT
I may also be able to gain use of a fairly sizable guitar shop.
Just for some more comparisons.
#29
Roc8995, thanks for the info. I'm still milling about ideas, but I'll keep you informed if I can use you. There's some very specific things I'm looking to do, and I'm still hashing out details. Don't have much time at the moment, just popped my head in to take a peak, but keep an eye on your PM box.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#30
Quote by Kurapica
Also, it's important to remember that we have no notion of the volume recorded at. If you were clipping all the amps it would be so easy to tell them apart, but alas not.


true.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#31
^Record them all on 10?
It might not solve the problem fully, but it would be the easiest way to get them all set 'the same' and if nothing else would be a lot of fun.
#32
yeah. and it'd let me look like a retard again when i get them all wrong.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
Quote by Dave_Mc
yeah. and it'd let me look like a retard again when i get them all wrong.


LOL

I'm not trying to make anyone look like a retard, and there's really no right or wrong answer.

I'm just trying to either disprove, or reinforce some of the myths that float around UG regarding equipment.

Would people (and I mean pretty much anyone, not just hardcore tone freaks, but Joe Blow walking down the street listening to his MP3 player) really notice the difference if the song he was listening to was played on an MG or a JCM 800 (for example)?
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#34
Quote by yoyodunno
Sounds like a cool idea, i think a while ago someone did the same thing between a tube amp and a ss amp, but most people could tell. How can you regulate all the stuff if its different people testing the amps tho?


Do you mean this article?
#35
Quote by gald
Do you mean this article?


Damnit...

I'll still work on my own tests anyway.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#36
Quote by Kurapica
May I make one stipulation though. You must EQ them with all the dials at 12 oclock. I could make a decent amp sound worse than it is just to try and prove a point, if you got me. Not that I'm saying you're trying to do that, but yeah.


You may be doing just that, by putting all the dials to noon. Many amps won't sound their best that way (I know mine sure don't).
#37
Quote by mr_hankey
You may be doing just that, by putting all the dials to noon. Many amps won't sound their best that way (I know mine sure don't).


Which won't really prove a thing. Aside from prove which amps sound good with all their dials set the same.

If you want to compare how good an amp is compared to another amp, you've got to EQ each amp so that they sound their absolute best (and again, that also depends on the type of music you're playing, but for the sake of this argument, we'll say it's the same song for both amps). Once that's done, than one could truly say amp A sounds better than amp B.
~We Rock Out With Our Cocks Out!: UG Naked Club.~
Once in a blue moon, God reaches down from his lofty perch, points at an infant boy and proclaims, "This one shall have balls carved out of fucking granite."
#38
This is what has happened every time I've seen something like this done online:
- The crappy amp is dialed in to give as good of a tone as it can
- The good amp is dialed in to sound as much like the crappy amp as possible
- Some people take guesses, just for the fun of it
- Some people realize that both sound like crap

Good luck, though
#39
Quote by whoismilan
- The crappy amp is dialed in to give as good of a tone as it can
- The good amp is dialed in to sound as much like the crappy amp as possible


that is the biggest problem right there.

Too many of these tests turn into the recorder trying to point the finger at tone snobs, "huh, huh, i TOLD you none of you could truly tell the difference between tube and solid state"...

well, no **** sherlock, if you dial in the tube amp to sound like ss crap (more often than not at whisper volumes), and dial in the ss amp to sound like a tube amp, that's probably the case.

I actually like these tone tests, but as said, sometimes at least, they turn into the aural equivalent of a trick question...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
I probably couldn't tell the difference in a blind test unless I was actually listening to the amps in person. And if you had both amps at their absolute best then the ear splitting volume of the valve amp may give you some clue as to which it is.
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