#1
OK.. in a different thread i was asking about the Line 6 100HD Valve head. but people said my cab would have to be replaced because it`s a Spider II cab..... they said i needed Celestion Vintage 30 speakers for a tube head.... so i took the back off my cab just too see what speakers i do have there not Vinage 30`s of course but there ARE Celestion... heres the info i got off the speaker:

Celestion Custom Design
G12P-80 16ohms
11-20-0015
12 inch
Ipswich England
T5492A
22MR

are these speakers really THAT bad... the cab says it`s 300 watts (150 per side) they are Celestion which everyone raves about the Vintage 30`s, these speakers are made buy the same people who make the 30`s

Could i buy the head and just wait alittle while and replace the speakers with Vintage 30`s or does the whole cab need to be replaced?

to the people who said get a combo amp.... i have a 1/2 stack and i just really don`t see myself going to a smaller amp. so i`d just rathere stick to a 1/2 stack. because 2 X 12 or 4 X 12 i like having 48 inches of speakers blasting at me
#2
Have you ever felt a cranked tube amp? They feel a lot better than a solid state stack. Get a 212 tube combo, hook it up to the 412 you have, then realize it sounds so much better without the cab attached. You could always just throw the combo on top of your 412 if you like the look so much....

Just because it's celestion doesn't mean it's good. It's just a brand. Marshall makes MGs and JCM800s.

Line 6 makes Spiders and Flextones.

Get my drift? Every company has low quality and high/decent quality gear.

Oh. And 300 watts on a cab rating means nothing. Once you've heard the difference, you'd rather have a 30w 112 tube combo than a 300w 412 line 6..

If you don't want good advice then just go out and follow your own. Everyone is going to point you in the same general direction, whether it be to a tube stack for 3 grand, or a tube combo for 500 bucks.. And that direction is away from the spider and its cab.
Quote by rocknrollgod
well i can tall you this much do NOT get a marshall MG. becasue you will blow the speaker with duncans in the guitar. i know for experience.


Quote by Gutch220
Leave it to UGer's to argue over who "owns" a language


Last edited by sg-rocker173 at Dec 14, 2007,
#3
well those speakers arent really high quality celestions. they are just cheap ones made for the spider most probably. and if you want to stick with a stack then go for it. id keep the cab for a while then upgrade to a better quality cab. its not just the speakers that make the sound.
Originally posted by primusfan
When you crank up the gain to 10 and switch to the lead channel, it actually sounds like you are unjustifiably bombing an innocent foreign land.


╠═══════╬═══════╣
τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ
╠═══════╬═══════╣
#4
InanezGuitars44 - that quote in your sig is priceless LMFAO.... THATS what i`m looking for in a amp

OK... well i just wanted to know if upgrading to that head and replacing the speakers in my cab would be good.. but i guess not, i *MAY* get a tube combo sometime, but i guess i should just save my money till i got enuff and do it right eh.

My dream amp is a JCM800 but with a $2000 price tag just for the head, i can`t afford that.

i figured the cab was crap too not just the speakers, for the money i paid for it my amp does kick ass, BUT i`ve never payed through a tube amp yet.

lotz of people like peaveys and Mesa, but if i`m gonna drop that kinda cash on a 1/2 stack... i want something that says Marshall.. but i don`t know which to get, the JCM800 is WAYYYY outta my price range the JCM2000 is probly just over what my wallet would take, but what i am figuring out is a solid state is a solid state no matter who`s name is on it, i guess they all suck LOL. so i gotta go with a tube head / amp.

Edit: The only reason why i`m thinking about a tube amp is because i`m getting into EMG pickups... with the passive pickups my Line 6 was fine.. but if i push it hard with the EMG`s and the gain booster, i can hear the amp starting to give up at high volume levels, and it gets muddy, it just can`t handle the EMG`s, and thats the pickups i plan on useing so i need an amp that will make the EMG`s shine.
Last edited by Slayerdeath at Dec 14, 2007,
#5
Search for avatar cabs, you can get V30s made in china in a cab of your choice. The ones made in the UK are like 100 per speaker. Also is going used not an option for you?
#6
Quote by Hellscream91
Search for avatar cabs, you can get V30s made in china in a cab of your choice. The ones made in the UK are like 100 per speaker. Also is going used not an option for you?


oh going used is GREAT, as long as what your getting hasn`t been abused, in the other thread i think it was you, you put a list of JCM combo`s up from ebay.... the problem with that is... i`m Canadian and i don`t have a credit card, so i can`t really get things off ebay. and whats it going to cost me in boreder fees if i did order somthing from the states.

my local music store has 2-3 JCM2000 heads used, i don`t know what they want for them though... i think there the 50 watt ones, 1 might be the 100 watt, i know they got the 100 watt one new there, i keep looking at it, i think it`s $1200 new.
#7
Perhaps just get a combo with an extension speaker out?
If i didn't suggest that in the other thread anyway.

And PLEASE, don't buy into names of things. That's one of the worst mistakes you can make. You limit yourself to something that IS good, but there is SO much better. (in some cases - In Marshall MG's case, you just buy a Marshall nametag slapped onto a piece of crap)
Peavey Rage 158
Ibanez RG 320 FM
ESP LTD AX-50
Boss MT-2
Boss CH-1
Belcat Delay
Digitech Jamman Solo
#8
Quote by InanezGuitars44
well those speakers arent really high quality celestions. they are just cheap ones made for the spider most probably. and if you want to stick with a stack then go for it. id keep the cab for a while then upgrade to a better quality cab. its not just the speakers that make the sound.


Wrong.

Line 6 worked with Celestion to come up with the speaker design and now they build the speakers specifically for Line 6. Just like ESP or Jackson contract Schaller to make their tremelos, just like any other company working together.

I hate to say it but celestion aren't making cheap horrible speakers all of the suddebecause they're put in a line 6 cabinet. No, they aren't vintage 30's but obviously you aren't going to get vintage 30's in a $300 cab. 4 vintage 30s costs more than that to buy from a retailer.

blahblahblah oh no cheap celestions. What the hell do you expect? If you want v30's you have to pay a thousand bucks for a Marshall, Mesa, Bogner, VHT, etc cab. You aren't going to get anything other than Avatar brand new with celestions for less than $800.

EDIT- you can. A line 6 spider valve 4x12. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Line-6-Spider-Valve-412VS-4x12-240W-Guitar-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=605504


And you want to know something else? Avatar are ****. I know. I have one. It was so terrible I just took the speakers out and gave the cab to my uncle for his barn cat to sleep in.


To the threadstarter:

I don't know why you're letting these biased idiots continually shape and change your opinion. They're spouting off a bunch of uninformed garbage with absolutely no evidence just because they don't like the product you're talking about (usually for no reason I might add)

Case in point, look at the quote. Look at the other garbage people are saying.

There isn't a damn thing wrong with a spider valve head and an acceptable cab. I know because I've played it. These idiots just get up in arms because it says "Spider" on it. Let them be fools.
Last edited by xxgenocide98xx at Dec 14, 2007,
#9
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
Wrong.

Line 6 worked with Celestion to come up with the speaker design and now they build the speakers specifically for Line 6. Just like ESP or Jackson contract Schaller to make their tremelos, just like any other company working together.

I hate to say it but celestion aren't making cheap horrible speakers all of the sudden because they're put in a line 6 cabinet. No, they aren't vintage 30's but obviously you aren't going to get vintage 30's in a $300 cab. 4 vintage 30s costs more than that to buy from a retailer.

blahblahblah oh no cheap celestions. What the hell do you expect? If you want v30's you have to pay a thousand bucks for a Marshall, Mesa, Bogner, VHT, etc cab. You aren't going to get anything other than Avatar brand new with celestions for less than $800.

And you want to know something else? Avatar are ****. I know. I have one. It was so terrible I just took the speakers out and gave the cab to my uncle for his barn cat to sleep in.


To the threadstarter:

I don't know why you're letting these biased idiots continually shape and change your opinion. They're spouting off a bunch of uninformed garbage with absolutely no evidence just because they don't like the product you're talking about (usually for no reason I might add)

Case in point, look at the quote. Look at the other garbage people are saying.

There isn't a damn thing wrong with a spider valve head and an acceptable cab. I know because I've played it. These idiots just get up in arms because it says "Spider" on it. Let them be fools.

The thing is your trying to make him buy the Spider Valve head when he might like another one better, quit being a hypocrite. You get up in arms when someone recommends something other than the spider valve head.
#10
Quote by Hellscream91
The thing is your trying to make him buy the Spider Valve head when he might like another one better, quit being a hypocrite. You get up in arms when someone recommends something other than the spider valve head.


No, I'm not trying to make him buy a damn thing.

I'm trying to make sure he doesn't get misinformed by a bunch of people who know nothing other than a bunch of non-truths posted by a bunch of 15 year old kids on the internet who have never even owned the damn thing, let alone tried or even HEARD one in person.

Sorry but the stupid **** you say doesn't make sense dude. Talking crap about an amp you don't own, haven't tried and haven't heard doesn't make sense. Talking crap about cabs you don't know, haven't tried and haven't heard doesn't make sense.

All you and alot of other people on this forum do is talk. Most of that talking is out of your asses. I'm here to clear away the misinformation.

I don't give a **** about a spider valve head. I don't even like it that much. The fact is he said he was interested. I informed him. I didn't try to persuade him to try something else out of blind bias and distaste for an amplifier that I have NEVER PLAYED OR HEARD like other people in the thread. Like you for instance, talking about solid state spiders and trying to compare them to cheap randalls and JCM amplifiers.

When you start stating facts, when you start using logic and reason I might even consider responding to another thing you say.

Quote by sg-rocker173
Have you ever felt a cranked tube amp? They feel a lot better than a solid state stack. Get a 212 tube combo, hook it up to the 412 you have, then realize it sounds so much better without the cab attached. You could always just throw the combo on top of your 412 if you like the look so much....

Just because it's celestion doesn't mean it's good. It's just a brand. Marshall makes MGs and JCM800s.

Line 6 makes Spiders and Flextones.

Get my drift? Every company has low quality and high/decent quality gear.

Oh. And 300 watts on a cab rating means nothing. Once you've heard the difference, you'd rather have a 30w 112 tube combo than a 300w 412 line 6..

If you don't want good advice then just go out and follow your own. Everyone is going to point you in the same general direction, whether it be to a tube stack for 3 grand, or a tube combo for 500 bucks.. And that direction is away from the spider and its cab.


THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

SPIDER VALVE .

EDIT:

I'd like to throw in the fact that the Spider VALVE combos also come loaded with CELESTION VINTAGE 30 SPEAKERS and so do the 4x12 cabs. So I guess not all line 6 cabs are totally ****, right?
Last edited by xxgenocide98xx at Dec 14, 2007,
#11
Quote by Slayerdeath

Edit: The only reason why i`m thinking about a tube amp is because i`m getting into EMG pickups... with the passive pickups my Line 6 was fine.. but if i push it hard with the EMG`s and the gain booster, i can hear the amp starting to give up at high volume levels, and it gets muddy, it just can`t handle the EMG`s, and thats the pickups i plan on useing so i need an amp that will make the EMG`s shine.

...so you are matching the amp to the pickups... soemthing about that doesn't quite make sense... maybe it's the noob in me speaking, but methinks that you should spend the hundreds(or thousands) on a good head, and then get pickups that bolster the amp, not vice versa.
#12
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
No, I'm not trying to make him buy a damn thing.

I'm trying to make sure he doesn't get misinformed by a bunch of people who know nothing other than a bunch of non-truths posted by a bunch of 15 year old kids on the internet who have never even owned the damn thing, let alone tried or even HEARD one in person.

Sorry but the stupid **** you say doesn't make sense dude. Talking crap about an amp you don't own, haven't tried and haven't heard doesn't make sense. Talking crap about cabs you don't know, haven't tried and haven't heard doesn't make sense.

All you and alot of other people on this forum do is talk. Most of that talking is out of your asses. I'm here to clear away the misinformation.

I don't give a **** about a spider valve head. I don't even like it that much. The fact is he said he was interested. I informed him. I didn't try to persuade him to try something else out of blind bias and distaste for an amplifier that I have NEVER PLAYED OR HEARD like other people in the thread. Like you for instance, talking about solid state spiders and trying to compare them to cheap randalls and JCM amplifiers.

When you start stating facts, when you start using logic and reason I might even consider responding to another thing you say.


THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

THE SPIDER VALVE IS NOT SOLID STATE.

SPIDER VALVE .

EDIT:

I'd like to throw in the fact that the Spider VALVE combos also come loaded with CELESTION VINTAGE 30 SPEAKERS and so do the 4x12 cabs. So I guess not all line 6 cabs are totally ****, right?

You imbecile, the only thing I said about the head was there was much more...probably better according to mass opinion, for the price. You said it was a good head in the previous thread dude but now you say you don't even like it that much? The JCM series and RGTC series are way better than any POS SS line 6, most noobs don't know that. There are no facts when it comes to tone but the majority opinion is that tube>SS
Last edited by Hellscream91 at Dec 14, 2007,
#13
Quote by Hellscream91
You imbecile, the only thing I said about the head was there was much more...probably better according to mass opinion, for the price. You said it was a good head in the previous thread dude but now you say you don't even like it that much? The JCM series and RGTC series are way better than any POS SS line 6, most noobs don't know that. There are no facts when it comes to tone but the majority opinion is that tube>SS

you should watch who you're calling an imbecile. I've known Genocide a long time, he's no noob. The only place the Spider Valve really gets bashed is here. I know several 20+ year players that consider it a very good amp for the cash. These are guys that make their living playing out, have CD's under recording contracts, and support their families doing so. One guy is in a couple bands, a country band, and a hard rock band, and they were honored to have him since he's considered such a good player. It's a modeler that you can actually turn up without sounding ****ty. It's a full tube powersection, which is really where today's modeling fails in an all SS amp. At low volumes, modeling can fool a lot of people. I guarantee you wouldn't be able to tell the difference with this guys playing, I have the comparison clip he did if you are feeling lucky. There isn't much else in the pricerange that can go from country twang to metal, with fx, and still sound decent at gig volumes. It's a good alternative grab and go combo instead of having to lug around several amps and pedal boards to cover all the bases. I've heard some great recordings with it, and that was the combo, so I fully expect to hear the same or better quality when you can match it with your own cab. I personally don't need that kind of versatility, but it's far from the piece of **** amp you are making it out to be.
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wiseman knows himself to be a fool." - W.S.
amp clips
amp vids
#14
Quote by Hellscream91
You imbecile, the only thing I said about the head was there was much more...probably better according to mass opinion, for the price. You said it was a good head in the previous thread dude but now you say you don't even like it that much? The JCM series and RGTC series are way better than any POS SS line 6, most noobs don't know that. There are no facts when it comes to tone but the majority opinion is that tube>SS


Firstly, the popular opinion on Ultimate-Guitar.com is almost always wrong. People lie. People have bias, people flat out don't tell the truth. Other people don't bother researching for themselves and just preach the lies for fact. Then you have 90% of a forum saying crap like that. There are alot of myths perpetuated on this forum, just like everywhere else on the net and even *gasp* in real life. You need to read between the lines and actually think for yourself and not do what everyone else says or does.

Take yourself for example. You bash an amplifier you obviously don't know anything about. You're even incorrectly claiming it's a solid state amplifier. I didn't even SAY anything about solid states, I just informed you the amp he was talking about was in fact tube. You rant and rave, cuss and swear. You can't come up with a single reason why it would be a bad amplifier, or even a bad choice other than (paraphrased) "Line 6 amps are garbage, solid state amps are garbage and you should get (what you prefer) instead." The fact is, line 6 aren't garbage, they make many good amps and have excellent customer support. Another fact- the SPIDER VALVE is a TUBE AMPLIFIER just like your precious Marshalls and Randalls and any other tube amp you can name. It has a wide variety of tone, it has a ton of amazing features (footswitchable presets, direct outs for recording, built in effects) it's built by a dependable, reliable, decent company and it's very VERY modestly priced. You can't hardly get another amplifier like it in it's price range. TAKE YOUR BLINDERS OFF AND LOOK AT IT. CLICK THIS LINK


Second, it IS a good head. Great for the price. It was also GREAT for the original poster of that thread- It met his needs to a T. It doesn't mean I have to like it. I just wont perpetuate a bunch of lies about it. Just because it is not of my taste or it doesn't meet my needs doesn't mean it's garbage like YOU and many other people here say.
#15
You.
Don't.
Understand.
I never said it was ****. I said he should check out other stuff in the price range and he should get a better cab if he wants a tube head for maximum tonality. I said the SS version was ****. Secondly you cannot have an opinion that is wrong.
Last edited by Hellscream91 at Dec 14, 2007,
#16
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
Firstly, the popular opinion on Ultimate-Guitar.com is almost always wrong.



+19572094784276


I would actually go with a spider cab over the v30s for a spider head. They make their cabs pretty sterile, so that they don't color the sound a lot. Thats the point, its a modeling amp. You're gonna get a huge range of tones, so they make the cab not color the tone.
#17
Quote by Hellscream91
You.
Don't.
Understand.
I never said it was ****. I said he should check out other stuff in the price range and he should get a better cab if he wants a tube head. I said the SS version was ****. Secondly you cannot have an opinion that is wrong.


Yes, your opinion can be wrong. Wrong in the sense that it defies all logic.

You bring up things that have no bearing on the subject at hand, you call names, you slander people, you slander companies. You argue with opinion and no fact. Everything here is night and day. All you bring to the table is "Stacks are for stupid noobs buy them because they're solid state and if you have a stack you have small genitals" and when questioned all you do is get butthurt and explode in a flurry of swearing and nonsensical arguments. You need to step back and evaluate the things you say on this forum.

I'm not going through the motions with you any more.
Last edited by xxgenocide98xx at Dec 14, 2007,
#18
OK, one I hate all of the bashing that goes on around here and I'm with Genocide and that other dude. I have friends who have everything from Line 6's to Laneys to Mesa's alright. One of my friends plays through a MG halfstack and he's great and you can get good tone through it you just have to be patient no it's not a tube and I wasn't expecting it to be. Another plays through a Spider III halfstack, and the same as the MG with a hell of a lot more versatility alright. Another plays through an SS crate those also tend to get bashed around here, yet again not valve but I wasn't expecting it to be and it's great for the price and for an SS amp. Then I've played through high-end Marshall's and Laney's and Oranges (in the U.S. (my music instructor has the Laney's and Orange's) and while those sounded a lot better than any of the SS amps, they were also thousands of dollars more and out of the price range of any of the people I know looking for an amp. So my advice is to
1.Shop used
2.Don't listen to UGers about Spider's and MG's
3. Try before you buy
Quote by thefitz
Interesting. It turns out that there are people on the forum who play an upright bass. I'll make a note of that.

*makes note*

*puts note on wall*

*stares at note for a minute*

*sits back down and resumes doing what I was doing*
#19
Finally some friggin reason!
My Gear
Guitars:
-Gibson Les Paul Studio
-Ibanez "lawsuit" Les Paul
-Ibanez S470
-PRS SE Custom

Amp:
Marshall TSL100
Marshall 1960a cab

Effects:
Dunlop 535q wah
Visual Sound Liquid Chorus

Pickups:
Guitarforce
MHD
#21
Quote by PunkRocker33133
OK, one I hate all of the bashing that goes on around here and I'm with Genocide and that other dude. I have friends who have everything from Line 6's to Laneys to Mesa's alright. One of my friends plays through a MG halfstack and he's great and you can get good tone through it you just have to be patient no it's not a tube and I wasn't expecting it to be. Another plays through a Spider III halfstack, and the same as the MG with a hell of a lot more versatility alright. Another plays through an SS crate those also tend to get bashed around here, yet again not valve but I wasn't expecting it to be and it's great for the price and for an SS amp. Then I've played through high-end Marshall's and Laney's and Oranges (in the U.S. (my music instructor has the Laney's and Orange's) and while those sounded a lot better than any of the SS amps, they were also thousands of dollars more and out of the price range of any of the people I know looking for an amp. So my advice is to
1.Shop used
2.Don't listen to UGers about Spider's and MG's
3. Try before you buy



Some of your comments make sense. I agree with shopping used and I also agree with try before you buy. I am not going to comment on number 2.
To the Original poster, the Vingage 30's are okay, I prefer the Greenback 25W speakers over the 30's. The Greenbacks come in a few varieties, but the G12M is only about $100 usd per speaker. If you have a decent cabinet, just swap out the speaers. If it is cheaply made, then find a different cab.
#22
Quote by xxgenocide98xx
Firstly, the popular opinion on Ultimate-Guitar.com is almost always wrong. People lie. People have bias, people flat out don't tell the truth. Other people don't bother researching for themselves and just preach the lies for fact. Then you have 90% of a forum saying crap like that. There are alot of myths perpetuated on this forum, just like everywhere else on the net and even *gasp* in real life. You need to read between the lines and actually think for yourself and not do what everyone else says or does.

Take yourself for example. You bash an amplifier you obviously don't know anything about. You're even incorrectly claiming it's a solid state amplifier. I didn't even SAY anything about solid states, I just informed you the amp he was talking about was in fact tube. You rant and rave, cuss and swear. You can't come up with a single reason why it would be a bad amplifier, or even a bad choice other than (paraphrased) "Line 6 amps are garbage, solid state amps are garbage and you should get (what you prefer) instead." The fact is, line 6 aren't garbage, they make many good amps and have excellent customer support. Another fact- the SPIDER VALVE is a TUBE AMPLIFIER just like your precious Marshalls and Randalls and any other tube amp you can name. It has a wide variety of tone, it has a ton of amazing features (footswitchable presets, direct outs for recording, built in effects) it's built by a dependable, reliable, decent company and it's very VERY modestly priced. You can't hardly get another amplifier like it in it's price range. TAKE YOUR BLINDERS OFF AND LOOK AT IT. CLICK THIS LINK


Second, it IS a good head. Great for the price. It was also GREAT for the original poster of that thread- It met his needs to a T. It doesn't mean I have to like it. I just wont perpetuate a bunch of lies about it. Just because it is not of my taste or it doesn't meet my needs doesn't mean it's garbage like YOU and many other people here say.

It really isnt, for what you are getting. It doesnt really sound all that nice. I prefer the tone of almost any other tube amp under its price range...the problem is they dont have the versatility that the line 6 does. It doesnt really sound that good, but they have a monopoly on budget tube amp heads that are versatile. The next cheapest amps that have the same versatility are almost double the price....but they sound sooooo much better. The best advice that i can offer to you, TS is to save up more for a nicer amp head, and go with avatar for the cab. They are by far the best bang for your buck.
Gear:
Ibanez RG550 20th RFR
Traynor YCV50
Fender FMT HH Tele
Mesa Boogie 2ch Triple Rectifier
2 1x12 custom Theile cabs
ISP Decimator
Krank Kranshaft
Boss BF-2 Flanger
BBE Sonic Maximizer