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BRAVO!
Now that yall have that settled maby there could be a bass upgrades part so the noobs who already know some bass know what to look for next.
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
Last edited by c3powil at Dec 17, 2007,
If you need more post space for any additions, I will rent out post #13 for *BUSH* credits.
Call Me Joe
Quote by wesleyisgay
IF MATT DAMON DIES TOMMAROW

FUK

Communist Mormon of 2.21.19.8

Caffeine Head of The Bass Militia
Nice work chaps.

Quote by Deliriumbassist
If you used 8Ohms, the output might be reduced down to around 60%.

Might be? Why not actually do the maths and tell me what the actual answer is?
Quote by Deliriumbassist
If you were to have them in series, their impedance would be 16ohms and would probably only draw about 30-40% of the output of the head.

See above. Also by this point you haven't mentioned that generally power ratings are given for a 4 ohm load - this is essential to understanding the issue. There's no such thing as a "4 ohm head" - you have a head that produces x watts at 4 ohms. I don't want to be too pedantic, but "ohms" and "watts" shouldn't be capitalised.
Quote by Deliriumbassist
When Behringer advertise their gear they will generously rate the output (Wattage) often quoting more than is true. Furthermore, they quote the PEAK output – the peak output is the output when the amp’s output spikes, not the RMS (root-mean-squared) which is the average. So they advertise something as being 300W for \$200 and you’re thinking wow but actually it’s only 150W which isn’t as good value for money.

Surely if they quote the peak output as 300W the RMS output will be 300/(sqrt2) = 213W.
Last edited by smb at Dec 16, 2007,
Quote by smb
Surely if they quote the peak output as 300W the RMS output will be 300/(sqrt2) = 213W.

Typically (i.e. I can't think of any situations otherwise), the peak value is exactly double the RMS value. Fender, SWR, and Ampeg cabs have that.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about \$200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
Quote by smb
Nice work chaps.

Might be? Why not actually do the maths and tell me what the actual answer is?

See above. Also by this point you haven't mentioned that generally power ratings are given for a 4 ohm load - this is essential to understanding the issue. There's no such thing as a "4 ohm head" - you have a head that produces x watts at 4 ohms. I don't want to be too pedantic, but "ohms" and "watts" shouldn't be capitalised.

Surely if they quote the peak output as 300W the RMS output will be 300/(sqrt2) = 213W.

Not my sections dude Don't jump down my throat
Last edited by Deliriumbassist at Dec 16, 2007,
Quote by thefitz
Typically (i.e. I can't think of any situations otherwise), the peak value is exactly double the RMS value. Fender, SWR, and Ampeg cabs have that.
According to this equation (source:Wikipedia/Audio power)

RMS power is equal to peak power over root two (the impedance being constant.) This is actually a fact for any sine wave so if different figures are quoted the manufacturer is using a non-standard method of measuring or calculating one or the other of these figures. Commonly the peak power rating allows for some compression (usually distortion) of the signal which shouldn't be the way it's done. But hell, which manufacturer doesn't overstate the power of their amps.
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Not my sections dude Don't jump down my throat

I couldn't care less who wrote what. I just glanced at it and suggested some improvements. Don't be so defensive.
Quote by smb

I couldn't care less who wrote what. I just glanced at it and suggested some improvements. Don't be so defensive.

The makes the post light hearted. Of course it's open to suggestions. The ohms have been decapitalised where I saw them (Was just a quick glance through though), I changed some the wording, and I'll sort something out with the other stuff later. And I'm choosing not to include the mathematics as this is a general, first line of knowledge FAQ. If people want to understand any of the physics or maths behind any of it, they're perfectly welcome to do their homework.
Fair enough - it's just me being picky really. Maybe something did get through to me during my half a physics degree

Seriously, good job though. It's damn good that you people could be bothered.
Quote by smb
Fair enough - it's just me being picky really. Maybe something did get through to me during my half a physics degree

Seriously, good job though. It's damn good that you people could be bothered.

Damn picky physics students
Quote by smb
Fair enough - it's just me being picky really. Maybe something did get through to me during my half a physics degree

Seriously, good job though. It's damn good that you people could be bothered.

Equations or no, I've seen dozens of cabs that have the way I mentioned. Go to Fender's site - 1000W peak, 500W continuous.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about \$200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
A really noob question here, forgive me:

I want to audition for this awesome local band, but they play in "drop B".

Since I'll have to file down the nut on one of my basses to accommodate the 5-string set, I won't be able to string it back to normal, will I? Or would I just have to buy a heavy gauge 4-string set?
Last edited by Charlatan_001 at Dec 16, 2007,
Quote by Charlatan_001
A really noob question here, forgive me:

I want to audition for this awesome local band, but they play in "drop B".

Also, since I'll have to file down the nut on one of my basses to accommodate the 5-string set, I won't be able to string it back to normal, will I? Or would I just have to buy a heavy gauge 4-string set?

I think drop B would have the same string tuning ratios as drop D. So, I guess it's drop D, but, um, all strings 1 and a half steps down? So the bottom string is B, which would be the same note as what your string would be. BF#BE is drop B, the way I see it.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about \$200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
Quote by Charlatan_001
A really noob question here, forgive me:

I want to audition for this awesome local band, but they play in "drop B".

Since I'll have to file down the nut on one of my basses to accommodate the 5-string set, I won't be able to string it back to normal, will I? Or would I just have to buy a heavy gauge 4-string set?

You don't need to file down anything. Find the heaviest 4 string set you can find and tune it BF#BE low to high, and set up the bass accordingly.
But won't even a really heavy gauged 4-string set require some nut filing?
Quote by Charlatan_001
But won't even a really heavy gauged 4-string set require some nut filing?

Not really. I've never had a problem with it, and I've put .140s in my low B groove.
i saw delirium posting to check the faq, and instantly thought no F'n way, they finished the FAQ?
This is amazing and yet at the same time terrible

now when we get asked nooby questions, all we have to say is check the FAQ, but then that pretty much eliminates at least every other thread

but then it will get kind of annoying, kind of like when someone posts something against the rules, and the next ten posts just say *reported, everyone will be saying 'check the faq'

nonetheless the effort put into this is amazing, i applaud you guys for your awesomeness, as this truly will make our lives easier (although eventually more uneventful)

i also second the idea of a starter amps section
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Not really. I've never had a problem with it, and I've put .140s in my low B groove.

What does the second part of your statement mean in this context?

Also, what gauge do you think will do? I"m looking at DRs and the heaviest 4-string set for the Hi-Beams is .50 - .110, but Rotosound Swing 66's come in .65 - .130
Last edited by Charlatan_001 at Dec 17, 2007,
Those Rotos are basically BEAD sets. A 5-string set is that exact gauge with a 45. I wish I could get some of those BEAD sets for my Warwick, but all I do is put 4 of my 5 strings on when I replace my Jazz's strings. The Warwick gets the old strings.

For that BF#BE tuning, I'd suggest a totally custom set - .130 .95 .70 .55
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about \$200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
Quote by thefitz
Those Rotos are basically BEAD sets. A 5-string set is that exact gauge with a 45. I wish I could get some of those BEAD sets for my Warwick, but all I do is put 4 of my 5 strings on when I replace my Jazz's strings. The Warwick gets the old strings.

For that BF#BE tuning, I'd suggest a totally custom set - .130 .95 .70 .55

What would the advantage of this custom set be over a BEAD set? Sorry for this noob question, but I don't tune like this.. ever.
Quote by Charlatan_001
What does the second part of your statement mean in this context?

Also, what gauge do you think will do? I"m looking at DRs and the heaviest 4-string set for the Hi-Beams is .50 - .110, but Rotosound Swing 66's come in .65 - .130

That you can put larger gauge strings into groovers wih no problem. Just giving you a practical example.
Quote by smb

Might be? Why not actually do the maths and tell me what the actual answer is?

Because I don't know the maths! It was just a general statement based on figures which I've seen given by several manufacturers.

Quote by smb
See above. Also by this point you haven't mentioned that generally power ratings are given for a 4 ohm load - this is essential to understanding the issue.

In my example we used a head that works best at 4ohms. Like you said "in general" not for every amp - some amps work most efficiently at 2ohms. I'm sure if you re-read that paragraph or two you'll see that I've mentioned that the amps work when their minimum load is the same as the load of the cabinets.

Quote by Me
For example, our amp produces 100% of it's output at 4 ohms.

Quote by smb
There's no such thing as a "4 ohm head" - you have a head that produces x watts at 4 ohms.

I think for all intents and purposes we can use the term "4ohm head". It's a lot less confusing and less wordy than "a head that produces x watts at 4ohms". Much easier to identify between an "8ohm head" and a "4ohm head" also.

Quote by smb
I don't want to be too pedantic, but "ohms" and "watts" shouldn't be capitalised.

That's just an insult now. Tbh, I'm offended that people can beg and call for this FAQ to be published then nitpick over the smallest of things!

Ohms and wattage is one of the hardest to understand and difficultest to explain topics. I dreaded doing it and my aim was to explain it in terms which anyone could understand. People don't need the maths, if they want to look deeper into it they can do themselves by all means.

Perhaps you should have contributed? Yunno, spend a few hours of your own time helping the forum?

Gear:
Fender Standard Jazz Bass
Artec Matrix Pedal Tuner
BBE Optostomp
Boss GEB 7
EHX NYC Big Muff
Ashdown MAG C410T-300
Torque T100BX
GAS-ing for:
Boss SYB5
Behringer Intelligate IG9
Quote by Charlatan_001
What would the advantage of this custom set be over a BEAD set? Sorry for this noob question, but I don't tune like this.. ever.

If you use that custom set, the string tension will be proper. .105 is too thick for an F# string, but .95 is fine (.05 per half-step, remember?). .80 is too thick for a B string, but .70 is fine. .65 is too thick for an E string, but .55 is fine. However, .130 is just perfect for a low B string. If you get 130-65, you'll have a fine low be, but too tight other strings.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about \$200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
Quote by Jonnomainman
That's just an insult now. Tbh, I'm offended that people can beg and call for this FAQ to be published then nitpick over the smallest of things! [...] Perhaps you should have contributed? Yunno, spend a few hours of your own time helping the forum?

Get over it - you're a kid on the internet. Sounds like you're taking things a bit seriously. I would happily have contributed but over the time this was made in I have been far too busy...not that that makes the slightest bit of difference. The couple of minor things I pointed out are there whether or not the FAQ was something I wanted to get involved in. If you couldn't cope with suggestions you should have tacked that on to the end of your section. Something like "My ego is too fragile to handle criticism so please don't comment on what I've written" would have done the job.
Kid on the internet?

You're coming off as the ungrateful, childish one here.

Quit getting patronising, grow up.

Gear:
Fender Standard Jazz Bass
Artec Matrix Pedal Tuner
BBE Optostomp
Boss GEB 7
EHX NYC Big Muff
Ashdown MAG C410T-300
Torque T100BX
GAS-ing for:
Boss SYB5
Behringer Intelligate IG9
Wow--a lot has happened here since I emailed Ben back the FAQ on Saturday morning..

And I tried to make tea, but all of you damn Brits wouldn't drink it, 'cause you said I didn't make it all proper like. Picky lot!
I'm just amused by "this is an insult" and "I'm offended now" because I really couldn't care less - I was just taking the text for what it is and responding in ways I thought it could be improved. I can see that most people aren't going to care about the maths but on the other hand the question of power output is a big one that confuses a lot of people and I'm not sure how much this helps. I'm not calling you a kid because of what you said - I called you a kid because you are a kid. If I was at school I'd likely have the time to spare and care enough to contribute but I'm not and I don't. I just suggested a couple of changes and you decided to make it personal. Well I'm not playing that game because I don't care about you - I just had a look through because I'm interested in amplifiers. If I wanted to make friends I'd put the computer off!
Quote by smb
I'm just amused by "this is an insult" and "I'm offended now" because I really couldn't care less - I was just taking the text for what it is and responding in ways I thought it could be improved. I can see that most people aren't going to care about the maths but on the other hand the question of power output is a big one that confuses a lot of people and I'm not sure how much this helps.

It just takes the piss to nitpick like that, go take your complaint about grammer to the proof readers anyway. The "de-captialisation" so to speak of those two words would not have helped anybody - why would they? It is completely unnecessary to point it out.

Quote by smb
I'm not calling you a kid because of what you said - I called you a kid because you are a kid. If I was at school I'd likely have the time to spare and care enough to contribute but I'm not and I don't. I just suggested a couple of changes and you decided to make it personal. Well I'm not playing that game because I don't care about you - I just had a look through because I'm interested in amplifiers. If I wanted to make friends I'd put the computer off!

So being 17 and in college is a "kid" now huh?

You're what 20? 21? Still in uni if I recall so probably about 23 tops. You remember what it's like to be 17 and you should remember how patronising it is to be called a "kid" at that age. This isn't about making friends, this is about being polite and nice at least!

You're really starting to sound like a child when you say "I don't care about you" btw. You might wanna cut that out yunno, makes you look a tad hypocritical

EDIT - lets just stop this now before one or both of us get banned. For the good of the forum as we both contribute and are an asset that would be missed.

Gear:
Fender Standard Jazz Bass
Artec Matrix Pedal Tuner
BBE Optostomp
Boss GEB 7
EHX NYC Big Muff
Ashdown MAG C410T-300
Torque T100BX
GAS-ing for:
Boss SYB5
Behringer Intelligate IG9
ben the squier vm pm is winging it's way to you as we speak, errr read and type.
Quote by bassmanjoe08
Dan

Don't stop being you <3

I think after this relentless adding for the last 10 mins, that Dan is the coolest looking. Goddamn welsh people and my great etc etc etc etc etc granddad is welsh.
Quote by thefitz
If you use that custom set, the string tension will be proper. .105 is too thick for an F# string, but .95 is fine (.05 per half-step, remember?). .80 is too thick for a B string, but .70 is fine. .65 is too thick for an E string, but .55 is fine. However, .130 is just perfect for a low B string. If you get 130-65, you'll have a fine low be, but too tight other strings.

Cool - I didn't know about the ".05 per half step" rule. Learn something new every day.
Good job on this here!
Very insightful!

Quote by Waters?
Good job on this here!
Very insightful!

It just worked for me--try it again, and if you still can't download it, pm me and I can get it to you via another method.
10/10 for this thread! (my only useful contirbuation for 3 months or so now)
Custom 4 String P/J-Bass
Zoom B2.1u
Ashdown Thomann Special Edition 180w
Ashdown Perfect 10 Combo

Member of the Bass Militia, PM Nutter_101 to join
I <3 this thread. Merry Christmas to me. Good job. And what is the relative idea of the exercise file 'cause I only have powertab and I wonder if I need it.
What a christmas present for the bass forum! Nice one guys.
Quote by Bumper
Looks like you had a big bowl of Downs Syndrome for breakfast.

Member of the Bass Militia, PM Nutter_101 to join

Lover of Ashdown? Join the Ashdown Army!
Quote by FullMetalBass
I <3 this thread. Merry Christmas to me. Good job. And what is the relative idea of the exercise file 'cause I only have powertab and I wonder if I need it.

There's about 50 different exercises in there. I'll try and get it sorted for next week or so, possibly this weekend even. I was doing it, then accidentally closed it without saving and lost 100 bars of it. I was slightly pissed off.
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Works fine for me.

Weird, before it wouldve gave me an error.....

Btw Ben I found a typo:

Ohms – They’re the impedance of the cabinet and it will say what the ohm rating is. The head will require a match between the ohms of the cabinets and the ohms of the cabinets to produce the most output but we’ll worry about that later. For now, you need to be more than or equal to the minimum ohm rating given on the amp. This tends to be 4 ohms, although 8 and 2 ohm amplifiers exist.

Cabinets are written twice - Im sure thats incorrect.
Brilliant work guys. Really great FAQ here!
signature
Quote by anarkee
And I tried to make tea, but all of you damn Brits wouldn't drink it, 'cause you said I didn't make it all proper like. Picky lot!

Sorry love. No caffeine for me - Over a year now.

Yeah, I'd like to thank myself and everyone else for doing the FAQ.

We rule.
In the bass chat:

<Jon> take the quote of me out your sig plx
<Jon> i hate seeing what i said around lol

Leader of the Bass Militia PM to join!

And now on BANDCAMP!

Officially the funniest member of the Bass Forum.
Quote by UtBDan
I honestly would, but UG got rid of the soft delete feature - ie if I delete it, the evidence it was there disappears forever.

Now this may not seem like much, but if he gets banned for a 2nd warning and questions his first, I'll have no proof this ever happened.

Basically, in a month I'll delete it. until then... my apologies. idk why its like that now. it used to be... soft deletable.

D*mmit! This is why I should read before I start prunning. D*mmit! What happened to the soft delete anyway?

Anywho, excellent very very excellent thread. You guys all get a free pizza.
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