cortez0
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2006
144 IQ
#1
Don't really know where to put this but it's a question about monitors.

Monitors are the earphones which make it possible to hear eachother when you're playing with a PA that's really loud.
I'm playing a venue for 300-400 people and we'll have about 1500-2000W so my question is: Do we need monitors?
I need a yes or a no because we need to search them and not the organisation.

Thanks
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"WHY DON'T YOU JUST F*CK OFF?!" So I ran up to her face and went "FINE, I F*CKING WILL" and stuck my hands down my pants and started masturbating. My friends were pissing themselves laughing while she just went "JESUS CHRIST"
Chris_Sleeps
Registered User
Join date: Feb 2007
355 IQ
#2
You'll need monitors for a live performance. In-ear monitors are a different type of tool, so it's up to you if you use normal ones or them.

Just to note aswell; always protect your hearing. In-ear monitors can do this extremely well so if you do get them don't be cheap. The money is worth it. Once your hearing starts to go it won't come back.
jazz_croatia
_
Join date: Jan 2007
123 IQ
#3
Yes, you need monitors. If you don't hear yourself and you aren't prepared well enough you won't know when the cues are. Monitors are God gift.
The jazz student
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#4
Good monitoring is more important than good FOH. (front of house) It is THAT important. If you can't hear yourself, you will suck - especially the vocals. If the vocals suck, according to the audience, then the whole band might just as well suck too, because they won't remember how tight you were, or how fast your guitarist could shred. They'll just remember suffering through ten songs of someone moaning and hollering horribly out of tune.

You have 1500-2000W? PLENTY for a crowd of a few hundred people. Plenty for about a thousand people, I'd say.

With that much power, there is no reason to not be able to *power* a couple of monitors. Even if - worst-case scenario - you had to have one speaker as a main and one as a monitor. Better.... two 500-600W amps - each one running two speakers - two mains from one amp, and two monitors from the other.

Monitors themselves are easy to come by. If you are in charge of getting gear to play a room/audience of that size, you should be getting paid enough to splash out maybe $75 to rent a few bins for the night. It will be money well-spent.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
Dutch_Apples
UG's Career Advisor
Join date: Oct 2004
1,354 IQ
#5
I worked as a sound engineer over the summer. I can tell you that the bands that were NOT picky about monitors were often the worst bands both musically and professionally. You can use some JBL Eons to start out with.
I was once heavily prominent on these forums from 2004-2007, let's see how long I can stay now that I'm back.
cortez0
Registered User
Join date: Oct 2006
144 IQ
#6
Quote by axemanchris

You have 1500-2000W? PLENTY for a crowd of a few hundred people. Plenty for about a thousand people, I'd say.

With that much power, there is no reason to not be able to *power* a couple of monitors. Even if - worst-case scenario - you had to have one speaker as a main and one as a monitor. Better.... two 500-600W amps - each one running two speakers - two mains from one amp, and two monitors from the other.

CT


It's 400 people and I was told 1500W is a minimum, I don't know anything about sound engineering.

And Chris_sleeps: What do you mean with normal ones? I only heard of the in-ear ones. And we protect our ears because we know a nearly deaf musician and he is allways "whining" about it.
Quote by Shea Donoghue
"WHY DON'T YOU JUST F*CK OFF?!" So I ran up to her face and went "FINE, I F*CKING WILL" and stuck my hands down my pants and started masturbating. My friends were pissing themselves laughing while she just went "JESUS CHRIST"
axemanchris
Awwww.... NOW what?!
Join date: Aug 2006
2,471 IQ
#7
"Normal" monitors are those usually wedge-shaped speakers that sit on the stage facing the band. In-ear is a comparatively new technology that is still only used by those fortunate enough to be able to afford them.... which isn't most of us. Most places, if you tell them you have an in-ear monitor setup that you want them to integrate into their house PA, they'll try to accommodate, but they won't be happy about it.

Consider this:
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=71&cat=55&id=45

This is a very typical rehearsal hall style PA head. It is about 300W, and is plenty loud enough to shoot vocals up and over a drum kit. It might get a bit bogged down running full instrumentation including drums through it, but.... whatever.

400 people represents about the size of a regulation sized basketball court, assuming the people are in chairs. That little 300W head would do the trick just fine. We even used one for an outdoor show!

By comparison, a local concert theatre used something like this:
http://www.yorkville.com/products.asp?type=71&cat=59&id=231

They ran two of them.... one for the mains and one for the monitors. Full instrumentation through each, including drums. We're talking a theatre here.

http://www.westsidelive.com/gallerypics/westside01.jpg

That's only 1200W (with only 600W going to front of house.... the other 600W were blasting at the band through monitors), and the capacity of that theatre was over 600 people.

1500W in a room for 400 people sees, to me, only a minimum if you want to inflict pain.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
Join date: Apr 2007
264 IQ
#8
In my band, we don't normaly use any monitoring, (our own 5K system doesn't have any) but that's only because we've been jamming together for the past 20 years or so and can generaly get by with whatever sound we have on stage. If it's really bad, we turn the top speakers around on the PA stacks to point slightly inwards. This really makes a lot of difference as it bounces the sound off the back wall and directly back at you.
The main thing you'll need monitor wise on stage is vocals, as everything else on stage should be turned up to equal levels so everyone on stage can hear everything above the acoustic level of the drums, just as you would have it set up at a practice with a small vocal PA.
It easy to use a seperate small vocal PA as a vocal monitor system by setting it up on stage with the speakers pointed at you and taping the mic to the front of house mic, like they used to do in the sixties.
take_it_t
Music Addict
Join date: Mar 2005
818 IQ
#9
Depending on the venue the FOH speakers may be quite a distance away from the "sweet spot" on the stage. I think monitors are very important, and bad monitoring equals bad performance. I've recently taken to using in-ear monitors, and the sonic clarity and isolation is an incredible experience. Chances are the monitor mix will be way different from the FOH mix and it would be silly to have to use one mix, and one pair of speakers for both the audience and the band. As far as power goes theres also the factor of how many drivers you are powering. Because the more drivers you begin to add the more the sound gets spread out, and "louder" things appear.
SlackerBabbath
Est. 1966.
Join date: Apr 2007
264 IQ
#10
Quote by take_it_t
Depending on the venue the FOH speakers may be quite a distance away from the "sweet spot" on the stage. I think monitors are very important, and bad monitoring equals bad performance. I've recently taken to using in-ear monitors, and the sonic clarity and isolation is an incredible experience. Chances are the monitor mix will be way different from the FOH mix and it would be silly to have to use one mix, and one pair of speakers for both the audience and the band. As far as power goes theres also the factor of how many drivers you are powering. Because the more drivers you begin to add the more the sound gets spread out, and "louder" things appear.

If they work for you, that's fine, but when I tried them out, it was that very same isolation that bothered me, I just felt seperated from the band somehow and I must admit, having seen many people use them onstage, it is quite annoying from an audience point of view to see someone constantly fiddling with them to get their sound perfect.
Personaly, I find it more useful to be able to hear what the audience hears rather than a seperate mix just for the band.
But that's just my preference, something like monitoring really is a matter of 'each to their own.'
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Dec 23, 2007,