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insidergene1
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Join date: Dec 2007
166 IQ
#1
it seems to me that there is a true lack of quality music coming out today. as far as i can tell there seems to be some very talented ppl on this forum. i dont realy understand the music industry, they give us all this fall out boy, my chemical romance bs, when there are truely talented vocalists and musicians to be had. how do these guys that whine and cry on an album gte their voice heard and others not. is it the new generation of kids that are all "i wanna kill my self for attention" that control this thing"mass marketing" or what. why is their voice even heard, in my town the rock sations suck theres no blues station at all and the oldies plays u2 and sticks all day. what happened, whats the best route for getting your music heard on a large scale, move to cali or what. idk what the hell is wrong with the music of today
The Rambler
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Join date: Dec 2007
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#2
No one ever plays blues, nor have they ever, really. I mean, Buddy Guy was saying that in the 60s. Also, the music industry is run by fads and who you know. It doesn't matter if emo is good per se, the label executives might even personally hate the bands, but they sell. Some necktie somewhere decided that the thing to do was to take the underground emo scene from the 80s and fuse it with pop and create a bastard that sells a lot of records. As far as for people like you and me making it big, you have to know someone in the industry, or be really good.
Page/Rhoads
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Join date: Nov 2007
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#3
I hate music now. I base it off of talent, but mostly passion. If I can't feel anything when I listen to the music, then it just sucks. There is no point to most music now and many people have lost touch with blues and true rock and roll.
Hadeed
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Join date: Oct 2007
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#4
exactly, record labels use the theory of "if its sells, its good enough for us".

so with that in mind, its the mainstream public that drive the quality of music down, which then drives the record labels, which drives more mainstream people... i'm sure u can see the vicious cycle now.
zepledfan413
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Join date: Aug 2007
99 IQ
#5
Modern music (they call it music) is all image in my opinion. Who's wearing the mask, who's wearing the shirt, the hair, the gothic look, the emo look, the preppy gay look....it's stupid.

In the days of Zeppelin, Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc...music was fun. Now it's depressing. If you have to look a certain way, say certain things, and be what people want you to be...I don't want to be in a band.
Dazed/Confused
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#6
With the advent of iTunes and like musical distributers coupled with the rise of free music downloading programs, record companies are less likely to take risks on bands that are musically talented, when there are bands that fit a formula and are more likely to succeed. The tradition continues from hair metal, largely, when you would take a band of "good looking" guys and have them play a song or two on the album that was generic and relatable to sell albums. It is a business, so the record companies are less likely to take risks on bands that are musically Zeppelin, Boston, or GN'R-esque. The manufactured whiny bands are relatable and appealing to more people more quickly. Think of hearing "You Shook Me" off of Led Zeppelin I, or the whole album, if you're not a blues/rock fan...not as appealing in general as something that general music listening audiences would take to as a catchy beat and followable structure.
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insidergene1
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Join date: Dec 2007
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#7
i dont know who said it but ima quote my buddy "to play blues you had to have lived a ruff life" all these kool-aid drinking cochroaches have had it way to easy so all the can write about is how they hate themselves its very rare to hear a good album, but my tastes tend to leed me down the blind mellon nirvana tom petty simon and garfunkl skinnered bb king path so if those guys didnt put out good albums in your opinion then im stummped
The Rambler
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#8
I think the music industry (why is it an "industry" anyway?) really lacks artists. I think that a lot of bands that are out there could be a lot better if they took more pride in their craft instead of just pumping out material that will sell.
Dazed/Confused
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#9
Quote by The Rambler
I think the music industry (why is it an "industry" anyway?) really lacks artists. I think that a lot of bands that are out there could be a lot better if they took more pride in their craft instead of just pumping out material that will sell.


It's an industry because it's businesses. There are companies selling things.

However, I agree wholeheartedly with your statement that there aren't artists. It's not a matter of the current bands taking pride in their work, it's a matter of getting musicians who take pride in their art, but also feel the blues. The unparalleled (in blues) SRV didn't come from a particularly hard life, nor did Jimmy Page...but they felt it and they took pride in it and it was their lives.
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The Rambler
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#10
I know that it is, I was just asking why it's an industry. Art should not be products.
frigginjerk
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#11
you guys need to bear in mind that even though the music industry is a business, the natural forces of supply and demand will prevail.

since the 60's, there has always been a demand for highly talented rock bands that play good songs, plain and simple. Virtuosity goes in and out of style, but good songwriting never leaves.

when a new music fad begins, there will of course be an explosion of bands that play that kind of music. Over the years, we all know what happens. The hype turns to criticism and complaints of stagnation in the genre, and most of the bands disappear as soon as the next fad starts up. But a handful of these bands will prevail and continue to be successful for 10 more years. These are the bands that are good songwriters and consumate musicians, and who were never doing it to be famous, just to be successful.

it's why the chili peppers have been around for over 20 years and they keep selling more and more albums. it's why jack white will probably sell albums consistently for the rest of his life. it's why bands like limp bizkit and Simple Plan were only famous for about 3 or 4 years, and only really cool for about a year and a half, when the novelty of their first hit wore off.

bottom line: great bands don't go undiscovered for long. Anyone can write ten songs to sound just like Fall Out Boy, and if they luck out, they'll sell out a few all-ages gigs, someone will call someone who know someone at a label and they might get signed because the label knows they can cash in on this fall out boy soundalike band. Naturally, when us condescending musicians hear this stuff, we will be angry that they got famous and we didn't, but they'll only be famous long enough to not make any real money, and get spit out the bottom of the industry when the next fad starts.
frigginjerk
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#12
Quote by The Rambler
I think the music industry (why is it an "industry" anyway?) really lacks artists. I think that a lot of bands that are out there could be a lot better if they took more pride in their craft instead of just pumping out material that will sell.


^

you've answered your own question. It's an industry because they want to pump out material that will SELL. The problem is that the labels themselves have shifted from the concept of investing in quality material that takes more time and money to produce, but pays big in the long term, and now they want sub-par material that is cheap to produce and cheap to market, and will pay off right away, despite not having the quality required to still sell 5 and 10 years down the road.

and the reason WHY it's an industry is because artists used to have no other way of getting their music out to the people. The straight up reality is that everything a band does costs money. Equipment costs, rental costs, transportation costs, recording costs, the cost of packaging a CD, the cost of advertising a show, the cost of printing tickets, etc etc etc... adding to the problem, musicians themselves don't inspire a lot of trust in the companies that provide these services.

somewhere along the line, artists realized that, due to competition from other artists, they can't sell enough art to be able to buy food, or rent a flat, or to basically LIVE. they realized that they must work with groups of people (aka "businesses") that will help them to promote their art, help them to live day to day while working on new art, cover some materials costs, etc etc etc... in turn, the business could take their cut of sales. The artist prefers to get a smaller percentage of a large amount of money, rather than 100% of barely any money.

the only problem is that some of those businesses shifted their focus from promoting the music / art as it was originally intended, and they started trying to guess the next trend, and then they would try to sign bands ahead of time to be the first company to be promoting this cool new music. Guessing the next trend was a good idea, but it caused greedy companies to start trying to dictate what the next trend would BE, and that's when we started getting these manufactured fashion bands that everyone hates.
Last edited by frigginjerk at Dec 29, 2007,
Retro Rocker
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#13
Anyone else think that this money-making phase will end once/if honest, music-loving people start controlling the major labels?
StrokeMidnight
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#14
It's like a repeat of the '60s. Back in the early '60s/late '50s all you would hear on the radio was Freddie and the Dreamers. Then the Beatles came along and changed that. After them all you'd hear on the radio was The Beatles, Stones, Hendrix, etc. We just need to wait for the next musical revolution and it's going to come soon. There was a show "The Next Great American Band" and the country band (they were amazing! check them out they're called the Clarke Brothers) won the whole show and beat out the emo bands.
The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason.-John Cage
The Rambler
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#15
Quote by Retro Rocker
Anyone else think that this money-making phase will end once/if honest, music-loving people start controlling the major labels?

That won't happen. Honest people rarely ever end up on top in business. That's like saying foundry workers will end up controlling the steel companies.
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#16
Quote by The Rambler
That won't happen. Honest people rarely ever end up on top in business. That's like saying foundry workers will end up controlling the steel companies.

Sad but true.
We need disguises.
The Rambler
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#17
Quote by Retro Rocker
Sad but true.
We need disguises.

Like business suits, sports cars, and a messy divorce.
tbca
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#18
ok the first reason new music sells is because its shallow. Most American kids can relate to that(including me)because they are about as shallow as kiddy pools

the second reason is like everyone says the music industry doesnt care about people who listen to good music. For everyone one person who likes good music I would estimate that there are about 271 whoo like new music.

and finally third no one actually cares enough to try and do something about its like global warming


anyway dint mean to make any one mad i person like new and old music
shredder1223
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#19
I'm gonna say some words that will probably make you guys angry.

soulja boy
HeavyReverb
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#20
does anyone else find it strange that as soon as green day cool off, fall out boy shows up. when they cool off, mcr show up. its all just new-era boybands.

why the f**k are the chili's or so many amazing underground artists not as big as these? personally i dont like srv or led zeppelin but they were 200 times better than the s**t being pumped onto itunes to feed the 'depression' of todays teenagers. im only 17 but im seriously fed up with all the whining emos thinkin 'mcr are sooooo deep'.

im hope that real music will return in the near future. we need a new hendrix!
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#21
Quote by zepledfan413
Modern music (they call it music) is all image in my opinion. Who's wearing the mask, who's wearing the shirt, the hair, the gothic look, the emo look, the preppy gay look....it's stupid.

In the days of Zeppelin, Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc...music was fun. Now it's depressing. If you have to look a certain way, say certain things, and be what people want you to be...I don't want to be in a band.

It's not just modern music that's based on an image. The Sex Pistols were basicly an image created by their manager to sell clothes. A lot of so-called new wave bands in the mid-'80s were image-based, and hair metal was the same way.
Ben Wright
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#22
The music industry has changed drastically. Its now, not about the talent, its about the image. The big people in music want to make money so they sign bands that they think a lot of people will like. They think of all the teenage girls who will go out and buy the albums which is probably the biggest reason that Fallout Boy are so popular.
Record Deal owners don't care about talent, money is their God. Thats what they're out there to do. They decide what will attract the biggest amount of people in the market.
Gwynnell
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#23
It's fair enough really, they want money, they don't want to fail in a business, it makes good financial sense to back bands that will make money, and if you're really that bothered you'd be at the local music venue every night, where i live everyone moans about it but just up the road is a pub which has live music every night, in the past has had, Radiohead, Muse, Oasis, Coldplay, Snow Patrol, Green Day, Lostprophetes, Suede, Verve, Idlewild, Manic Street Preachers and pretty much everyone else who's big. If you go to local clubs you find good music mostly.
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yatta
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#24
Sometimes, the people on these forums really annoy me. Just because you aren't famous, doesn't mean you have to be lamely jealous of it consistently. Bands like Fall Out Boy and My Chemical Romance are big because they are talented songwriters.

Just because they're not ripping a sexy blues solo in every song, or playing some badass riff doesn't mean they're a bad band. Music has shifted away from "THAT'S SO HARD TO PLAY THIS GUY IS SO GOOD" to a band being good if they can make incredibly hooky music. With good reason.

Besides, the guitarist in MCR is most likely better than you, to be honest. I'm not a fan, but he's not a terrible guitarist by any means. You're right, these bands are like the "boy bands of our era", except they write and play all of their music, so everything that made boy bands invalid, is valid in this case. I admire the backstreet boys for their over-the-top vocal harmonies constantly. They're really well put together. Only problem, is they didn't write them.

Led Zep and AC/DC are just boy bands for hicks and elitists, anyway.
The Rambler
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#25
^ You have some good points, and I'm not one of those people sitting around saying that music isn't what it used to be, blah blah blah. I like a lot of modern bands. However, there's a lot of poor-quality music that is popular. There was a lot of bad music back in the 60s and 70s (though we mostly only remember the good stuff). I think Fall Out Boy can write catchy music, but are not artists as they ought to be. I don't care if I don't personally enjoy the musical genre, but if you aren't an artist, you aren't a musician.

[EDIT]: AC/DC definitely isn't for elitists. They suck (can be fun sometimes, but still suck).
crocoscar
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#26
Quote by zepledfan413
Modern music (they call it music) is all image in my opinion. Who's wearing the mask, who's wearing the shirt, the hair, the gothic look, the emo look, the preppy gay look....it's stupid.

In the days of Zeppelin, Sabbath, Iron Maiden etc...music was fun. Now it's depressing. If you have to look a certain way, say certain things, and be what people want you to be...I don't want to be in a band.


I'll second that, all is about the damn look today ... bands such as mcr (to not name them), tokio hotel, or any band with that faggy-"emo" look help some people with a lack of personnality to say "Oh I'm ****ing metal" just because they wear black clothes and gay make-up, but listening to pop music. Yes, some people really say that mcr or linkin park are metal -___-
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#27
Quote by yatta
Led Zep and AC/DC are just boy bands for hicks and elitists, anyway.

Everything you ever say is now null and void.
HeavyReverb
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#28
Quote by Retro Rocker
Everything you ever say is now null and void.


no he's correct- zeppelin and ac/dc do sound like something you'd hear coming out of a pickup truck. also i agree the guitarist from mcr is better than me and probably most of us here. fall out boy shouldnt be allowed play due to their horrible live show. i dont mind if bands can at least play their music but fob cannot.
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kaptink
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#29
I think what you have to remember is that of course record labels want to sign talented and great artists and they do ( not always rock bands however). They make money from these fad bands and one-hit wonders but the true money comes from those legendary records, i'd wager that dark side of the moon or appetite for destruction made a lot more money this year compared to bands like FOB's records from 2006 did and they will keep selling.
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#30
Quote by insidergene1
it seems to me that there is a true lack of quality music coming out today.


Total crap.

Theres some bad bands, and some good. Same as it ever was.
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take_it_t
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#31
There will always be both good and bad bands, and theres nothing you can do about that, good bands only exist because you have bad bands to compare them to. Its all about the money, just like everything else in the world. If a record company feels that a band has a product which can earn a lot of money, than they will more than likely be interested in selling that band. I don't have a big problem with that either, because I choose what I want to listen to, if I don't like something I won't listen to it, and I'm not going to complain because somebody else does. In twenty years from now, most of those one hit wonder bands will have been forgotten, and the truly successful bands will continue to be remembered. Thats just how it works. No matter what the genre, or how good of an artist may be, there will always be someone who doesn't like the music.
GuitarMunky
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#32
Quote by shoolocomous


Theres some bad bands, and some good. Same as it ever was.


Yep. nothing has really changed.
shred is gaudy music
brooklynsoulja1
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#33
people just need to execpt things change like seriously if u dont liek someones music dont listen dont care about it
i like old bands like black sabbath and ac dc,i like bands like pearl jam and nirvana,i like bands like avenged sevenfold and mcr
learn to love all types of music for whats good about each of them.theres alwayz going to be fads get over it people shouldnt hate on other bands that have sucess/honestly if i were them id do the same thing ill take advantage of my fame id enjoy being looked up to by teenagers and by whoever
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#34
these threads are stupid. i mean, seriously, right now there is a wider range of music available than ever before, and its available much more freely than ever before. who cares what the major labels do? you don't need them to listen to good music, and you never have. they've always sucked and they always will.
my name is matt. you can call me that if you like.
axemanchris
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#35
except the major labels dictate what the figurative "most of us" listen to.

same as it ever was.... agreed.

Not fair, IMO, to lump Green Day in with MCR, FOB, etc. How many other bands have been around, selling records consistently in big numbers since, what, 1994? Not many. Like them or not, they are NOT a flash-in-the-pan band. 14 years of those kinds of sales is rare, especially given the high-turnover rate and "disposable" nature of music today.

Like was said above, good songwriting never goes out of style. They write good songs, and they perform them well. They have a kick-ass live show. Their image is always current. What else do you want?

(Of course, good is subjective. I know loads of people here are really quick to say they suck, but their track record and endurance in a brutal market speaks for itself.)

CT
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Ramco
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#36
One could argue that the trend of having "flash in the pan" artists is a good thing, as it doesn't keep only a few bands on top. This gives bands a better chance of "making it", and if they're only on top for a few months or years at least they've gathered a large enough following to live comfortably for the rest of their lives and continue to play shows that won't be close to empty.

Also, I get the feeling that nearly every person who complains about bands like MCR and FOB have only heard their singles. In this day and age the singles are usually either chosen by the label or at least bands are heavily pressured by their label as to what song they should release. No band has had every song be great, or even every album be great, and in the case of a lot of bands their singles have been their weakest songs.

Also, please PLEASE don't ever judge a band by their fans. Just because kids think they're punk or emo because they listen to FOB or they're metal because they listen to Linkin Park it doesn't mean that the bands themselves are "ripping off a genre" and are idiots. Well, maybe Pete Wentz is. I'm sure the guys in those bands are exactly like nearly everyone here on UG; they love playing music and they're actually making a great living off of it, and they're taking a lot of stupid people's money - wouldn't you want the same? I like Blink-182 style pop rock enough to play it while wearing eyeliner if it means I can actually afford to put gas in my car this week. Does being poor enough to understand my priorities equal selling out?
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#37
Quote by axemanchris
except the major labels dictate what the figurative "most of us" listen to.

same as it ever was.... agreed.

Not fair, IMO, to lump Green Day in with MCR, FOB, etc. How many other bands have been around, selling records consistently in big numbers since, what, 1994? Not many. Like them or not, they are NOT a flash-in-the-pan band. 14 years of those kinds of sales is rare, especially given the high-turnover rate and "disposable" nature of music today.

Like was said above, good songwriting never goes out of style. They write good songs, and they perform them well. They have a kick-ass live show. Their image is always current. What else do you want?

(Of course, good is subjective. I know loads of people here are really quick to say they suck, but their track record and endurance in a brutal market speaks for itself.)

CT


i don't think its really true that major labels dictate what we listen to. i don't think thats been true really since the eighties when you started getting some really great indies doing something different (k records, sst, dischord, touch and go etc), and i think its even less true now. the internet is such a massive tool. once upon a time, if you wanted to put out a record, it was tough, because distribution was so difficult. now all you need is some recordings and enough money to press up 500 7"s and you've got yourself a record label, because things like myspace and paypal have made an internet presence easily achievable and hence have also made it very easy to sell your records to anywhere in the world.

and, besides that, its so easy now to just put music on a website and let people listen to it... i mean, look at 'black kids' for a great example.

what do all these changes mean for the consumer? it means music is everywhere. corporations have never been weaker in the music industry. go online and you can find some amazing webzines and mp3 blogs recommending amazing music that you can freely access thanks to things like myspace and last.fm, and which can be very often bought by some bedroom based record label selling 7"s by mailorder.

honestly, i don't know how people can complain about the state of music.
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axemanchris
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#38
What you say is entirely true for those who actively subscribe to the indie-rock aesthetic.

The 'average' consumer isn't motivated enough to pursue all of the alternative sources that are out there, and still finds their music by turning on MTV, turning on the radio, and other mainstream media. The stuff there is chosen by the major labels. This represents, I would estimate, easily 90% of the music-buying public, and what I meant by the figurative "most of us."

Also, the advantage of being on a label is much, much more than distribution. You can have not only virtual, but actual distribution all over the planet. You can have a great website with streaming and on-line purchase capabilities. It doesn't mean anything without the promotion and marketing to go with it.

It's the old "if a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is there to hear it, did it make a sound?" question.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

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#39
Quote by axemanchris
What you say is entirely true for those who actively subscribe to the indie-rock aesthetic.

The 'average' consumer isn't motivated enough to pursue all of the alternative sources that are out there, and still finds their music by turning on MTV, turning on the radio, and other mainstream media. The stuff there is chosen by the major labels. This represents, I would estimate, easily 90% of the music-buying public, and what I meant by the figurative "most of us."

Also, the advantage of being on a label is much, much more than distribution. You can have not only virtual, but actual distribution all over the planet. You can have a great website with streaming and on-line purchase capabilities. It doesn't mean anything without the promotion and marketing to go with it.

It's the old "if a tree falls in the forest, and nobody is there to hear it, did it make a sound?" question.

CT


but as a consumer i don't particularly care what others listen to. i'm happy as long as i can get to what i can listen to. the only reason people don't do what i do is.... well, i don't know actually. idiocy?

and, furthermore, i'd say that major label music is no different to how it has been. i mean, there are still classic rock style bands on major labels, there have always been pop acts, there have always been acts following trends. i don't think its a whole lot different. the only difference is that we can now get to the other stuff much more easily. so things have only improved, objectively.

as a musician, it doesnt concern me because the chances of getting onto a major label are still as slim as ever, and the prospect is still as unappealing as ever, but there are now many more avenues to distribute and disseminate music through.

besides anything else though, i just think that its ridiculous in a way to get so stressed out about what the major labels are doing, because the major labels ARE dying. they are losing their stranglehold, whichever way you look at it. i think this is a wonderful thing.

ultimately, i think the democratisation of the music industry that the internet is causing is pretty much inexorable. i'm not an optimist much, but i am about this. i honestly believe that thanks to the internet, its only going to become easier and easier to disseminate and also access a massive range of music, the boundaries between signed and unsigned are only going to become hazier and major labels are only going to be weaker, unless they realise what is happening and shift their business models to accept these changes, but even if that happens we'll still have won.
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rhoads4ever
Registered User
Join date: Jul 2006
196 IQ
#40
Quote by Gurgle!Argh!
these threads are stupid. i mean, seriously, right now there is a wider range of music available than ever before, and its available much more freely than ever before. who cares what the major labels do? you don't need them to listen to good music, and you never have. they've always sucked and they always will.


Seriously. There is so much music available. And to say that music doesn't have "talent" anymore is kind of moronic, was the popular classic rock of Led Zep, Sabbath etc. as "talented" as the Jazz of the 20s? was that jazz as musically "talented" as the classical music before it?
Music has always been a simplified in one form or another over the years... Notice how when people want to learn more about the theory of music they study Beethoven not Richie Blackmore?
Thats just my 2 cents. I think music is cool now because its so available... So what if Soulja Boy is a hit in the charts, I don't like it, so I don't listen to it.
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