#1
I understand playing in key (like key of G+ has F#, etc), I understand how to play a scale in that regard, but I don't understand scales, as in the actual note playing..

http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php

I go here, I look at 1/C/Major, then go to 2/C/Major, and I see absolutely no pattern.. I don't understand how you can tell the different scales apart..

I mean, I could memorize ALL of them (which would take a long-ass time), but most of the time in music there are patterns.. I see none here.. How do I tell where to start and stop a scale (like the 1, 2, 3, etc)..
#2
in those two, they are each just the same thing with the same noted played in different places on the neck
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#3
Those are box shapes, and you should ignore them. Scales are collections of notes. You can play those notes in any order, anywhere on the fretboard.
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#4
So, for example in key of C on small E string, for the first, say, 4 notes, you could just play E(open), F(1), G(3), A(5), and that's a scale?

If you just play every note (in key) on one string, is that considered a scale?
#5
Quote by Archeo Avis
Those are box shapes, and you should ignore them. Scales are collections of notes. You can play those notes in any order, anywhere on the fretboard.

Listen to Archeo.

If you really want you can move up a string to play a lower note (using open strings). I prefer not to do this as it messes with my mind.
#6
Quote by Dog--
So, for example in key of C on small E string, for the first, say, 4 notes, you could just play E(open), F(1), G(3), A(5), and that's a scale?

If you just play every note (in key) on one string, is that considered a scale?


That would be part of a scale.... An entire scale goes exactly one octave (c to high c. etc...)

What strings you use is irrelevant, all that matters is the notes.
#7
Quote by Dog--
So, for example in key of C on small E string, for the first, say, 4 notes, you could just play E(open), F(1), G(3), A(5), and that's a scale?

If you just play every note (in key) on one string, is that considered a scale?


You can play them on one string, or one note on each string, or on different halves of the fretboard. It doesn't matter. Anywhere in the fretboard and in any order.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#8
I think I understand.. One last thing, though, scales can be as many notes as you want, right? I mean, you could play 4 notes and call it a scale, or play 50 and call it a scale?
#9
Well technically you could have a 4 note scale or a 50 note scale. But four note scales will make very boring music, and 50 note scales would need more notes than we have available. We have 12 notes, and our chromatic scale is those notes. Generally most scales have 12 notes, with some having 5, 6, or 8. Other scales exist but arent generally used. If you play any note at a different octave it does NOT count as a new note.
#10
I don't mean different actual notes, I mean using ABCDEFG on different strings, different positions, etc, but as you said, I guess it doesn't count like that..

Also, obviously a 4 note scale wouldn't be very good, I was just using an example
#12
Quote by Dog--
I don't mean different actual notes, I mean using ABCDEFG on different strings, different positions, etc, but as you said, I guess it doesn't count like that..

Also, obviously a 4 note scale wouldn't be very good, I was just using an example

Like Archeo said, anywhere on the fretboard. C D E F G A B is the C major scale in any position, on any string, on any instrument.
#13
Ok, this would answer everything: Is this a scale?

All on the Little E, btw..
In C+
E(open) F(1) G(3) A(5) B(7) C(8) D(10) E(12) F(13) G(15) A(17) B(19)
#14
Quote by Dog--
Ok, this would answer everything: Is this a scale?

All on the Little E, btw..
In C+
E(open) F(1) G(3) A(5) B(7) C(8) D(10) E(12) F(13) G(15) A(17) B(19)


It's the major scale.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#15
Quote by Dog--
Ok, this would answer everything: Is this a scale?

All on the Little E, btw..
In C+
E(open) F(1) G(3) A(5) B(7) C(8) D(10) E(12) F(13) G(15) A(17) B(19)


The more correct way to describe it is that it's using the notes of the C major scale. When someone refers to a scale it tends to mean a repeating pattern of notes across a single octave with a constant pattern of intervals. So, the C major scale is C D E F G A B, and if you play only those notes you're strictly adhering to the C major scale.

I think I'm just picky to be honest, but I tend to think of playing the notes in order as "playing the scale", anything else I tend to think of as "using the scale" or "playing within the scale"....I think it helps keep the concept of scales separate from finger positions.

[EDIT]Although looking at it again those notes ARE in order, so yes, it's the C major scale
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#17
Quote by isaac_bandits
^^^ And Id think its E Phrygian


Not without context, no. Those notes will naturally gravitate towards C major (and to a lesser extent, A minor) The backing chords determine the modes.
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#18
Quote by Archeo Avis
Not without context, no. Those notes will naturally gravitate towards C major (and to a lesser extent, A minor) The backing chords determine the modes.


Im pretty sure it should be A minor they would gravitate rather than C major. When playing sevenths, the tonic for A minor does not feature any notes in the scale which are involved in a tritone interval. The major seventh of C major has B, which together with F forms a triad. Therefore Amin7 is more stable than Cmaj7 (while playing in Cmaj or its relative modes). Therefore A minor is more stable than C major, but either of them are stable enough that a melody ending on that note would sound resolved.
#19
Quote by isaac_bandits
Im pretty sure it should be A minor they would gravitate rather than C major. When playing sevenths, the tonic for A minor does not feature any notes in the scale which are involved in a tritone interval. The major seventh of C major has B, which together with F forms a triad. Therefore Amin7 is more stable than Cmaj7 (while playing in Cmaj or its relative modes). Therefore A minor is more stable than C major, but either of them are stable enough that a melody ending on that note would sound resolved.


Aeolian actually has a fairly weak and easily displaced tonic, which is the whole point of raising the 7th degree to form harmonic minor. This aside, there is no tritone in a maj7 chord, you're thinking of a dominant chord. The major scale is, by far, more harmonically stable than the natural minor scale.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Jan 27, 2008,
#20
Quote by isaac_bandits
But four note scales will make very boring music,


Actually, the major scale has its origins in a 4 note scale -- called a tetrachord.
The major scale is composed of 2 tetrachords separated by a whole step.

Appropos of nothing in particular. However, being aware of this you can notice
some symmetries between the upper half and lower half of the scale.
#21
Quote by Archeo Avis
Aeolian actually has a fairly weak and easily displaced tonic, which is the whole point of raising the 7th degree to form harmonic minor. This aside, there is no tritone in a maj7 chord, you're thinking of a dominant chord. The major scale is, by far, more harmonically stable than the natural minor scale.


I actually was thinking of the major seventh chord, only I didnt explain what I meant well enough. I meant that the reason why the major and minor scale has a strong pull to the tonic is because none of the notes in their tonic chord are involved in a tritone relationship with any other notes in the scale. Assuming we use C major, the tritone is between B and F. Any chord containing a B or an F will not be as stable as a chord that does not. Maybe you are right about the Ionian being more stable then the Aeolian, which is probably due to the higher consanance of a major chord than a minor chord.

Now the Harmonic minor has a stronger pull towards the tonic than the Aeolian, for a good reason too. C Harmonic minor (C, D, Eb, F, G, Ab, B) contains two tritones: one between D and Ab; another between F and B. Aside from these notes we have C, Eb, and G, which are the notes of the tonic chord. Therefore this chord will be significantly more stable than any other chord in that scale (as they all have a note involved in a tritone interval within them).