#1
So im trying to get myself to memorize my scales so i can add some structure to my shreds. First of what are the most important i should get down first? I mainly play power and speed metal, a bit of melodeath and death. Nextly, does anyone have anytips or tabs of fun little ways to get them memorized rather then going lik there is a e here here and here there is a a here here and here . . .ect.
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#3
Firstly you should learn Ionian, then all of its modes. Then learn harmonic minor and relative modes. Then learn melodic minor and relative modes. These might not be the best scales for what your playing but the help tremendously with understanding all music. For your styles you should probably look into diminished and half diminished scales.
#4
define modes lol i hear it tossed around alot. (theory noob but i just want a basic explination)
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#5
Quote by Sheepbane
define modes lol i hear it tossed around alot. (theory noob but i just want a basic explination)



Congratulations.. You read my mind

Anyways modes are scales built from one scale. For example :
C Ionian : C, D, E, F, G, A, B
D Dorian : D, E, F, G, A, B, C
E Phrygian: E, F, G, A, B, C, D
F Lydian : F, G, A, B, C, D, E
G Mixolydian: G, A, B, C, D, E, F
A Aeolian : A, B, C, D, E, F, G
B Locrian : B, C, D, E, F, G, A

You may say "But those are all the same notes" and the answer is "Yes they are the same notes, but... They really arent the same notes. If you play each of the modes with the same tonal center, they would be completely different scales." The idea of modes, is scales, which have different formulas, but use the same notes. Each scales formula changes, and therefore its mood is different and it will have a different tonal center (tonic) provided you are playing all parallel modes.
#6
im also starting to learn theory, so basically a mode is just a scale, made from a scale with the root note changed?
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#7
Quote by petey gunnz
im also starting to learn theory, so basically a mode is just a scale, made from a scale with the root note changed?


Umm thats confusing what you said. I think you have the right idea. A mode is like playing a scale from a different degree of the scale, while keeping the notes of the scale the same, but playing each note up X scale degrees.

Its hard to understand at first, and difficult to explain, but once you get it its very easy.
#8
First thing - learn the notes on the fretboard.
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#11
Quote by isaac_bandits
Once you know all the scales, learning chords is just about taking each scale degree and adding thirds above it. Its ridiculously easy once you know how.


There are little complicated chords, but if you don't want to know it all, it's easy.
But it helps in your soloing too.
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#12
Ignore modes for now, you're not ready for them. Focus on learning the notes all across the fretboard. Then, learn the circle of fifths and the theory behind the major scale.

Congratulations.. You read my mind

Anyways modes are scales built from one scale. For example :
C Ionian : C, D, E, F, G, A, B
D Dorian : D, E, F, G, A, B, C
E Phrygian: E, F, G, A, B, C, D
F Lydian : F, G, A, B, C, D, E
G Mixolydian: G, A, B, C, D, E, F
A Aeolian : A, B, C, D, E, F, G
B Locrian : B, C, D, E, F, G, A

You may say "But those are all the same notes" and the answer is "Yes they are the same notes, but... They really arent the same notes. If you play each of the modes with the same tonal center, they would be completely different scales." The idea of modes, is scales, which have different formulas, but use the same notes. Each scales formula changes, and therefore its mood is different and it will have a different tonal center (tonic) provided you are playing all parallel modes.


I hate this explanation of modes. Teaching relative modes is the reason we have people thinking they can play D dorian over a C major progression. Learn parallel modes and think of them as altered major scales.

Ionian: C-D-E-F-G-A-B
Dorian: C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb
Phrygian: C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb
Lydian: C-D-E-F#-G-A-B
Mixolydian: C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb
Aeolian: C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb
Locrian: C-Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb

Modes work just like any other scale. You establish your tonal center with a progression built from the notes of the scale, and play the mode. This way, you don't get people thinking that modes are box shapes that can be interchanged at will (you do not have your choice of D dorian, F lydian etc over a C major progression)
This said, I find modes incredibly limiting. I'd just prefer not use them at all.
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Last edited by Archeo Avis at Jan 27, 2008,
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
Ignore modes for now, you're not ready for them. Focus on learning the notes all across the fretboard. Then, learn the circle of fifths and the theory behind the major scale.


I hate this explanation of modes. Teaching relative modes is the reason we have people thinking they can play D dorian over a C major progression. Learn parallel modes and think of them as altered major scales.

Ionian: C-D-E-F-G-A-B
Dorian: C-D-Eb-F-G-A-Bb
Phrygian: C-Db-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb
Lydian: C-D-E-F#-G-A-B
Mixolydian: C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb
Aeolian: C-D-Eb-F-G-Ab-Bb
Locrian: C-Db-Eb-F-Gb-Ab-Bb

Modes work just like any other scale. You establish your tonal center with a progression built from the notes of the scale, and play the mode. This way, you don't get people thinking that modes are box shapes that can be interchanged at will (you do not have your choice of D dorian, F lydian etc over a C major progression)
This said, I find modes incredibly limiting. I'd just prefer not use them at all.


I think its important to learn the relationship of each mode to the Ionian mode, just as it is important to understand the relationship between Major and its relative minor. I wouldnt avoid being familiar with that relationship. Yes alot of people dont take it past that 1 relationship, and are unable to properly apply the modes. But its still a good place to START. You definitely should learn the other relationships as you suggest though.


I agree with you about seeing them as individual scales. I would rather compare each to the scale that they are most like though. In other words I wouldnt think of Dorian as an altered Major scale - theres really nothing Major about it. Its good to be able to see that relationship, but when it comes to application, its a "minor mode" and ultimately it's more efficient to see it as relating to minor.

dorian = minor scale with a raised (natural) 6th.


Ultimately, its good to see all of the relationships.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 27, 2008,
#14
I usually explain them using parallel modes, as I find that people dont understand them otherwise (or they do but think "why should i learn all these random modes, instead of other random scales?").

I think of modes like this

Lydian (nat 4) = Ionian
Ionian (b7) = Mixolydian
Mixolydian (b3) = Dorian
Dorian (b6) = Aelion
Aeolian (b2) = Phrygian
Phrygian (b5) = Locrian
Locrian (nat 2, nat, 3, #4, nat 5, nat 6, nat7) = Lydian

The locrian - lydian transition can be thought of b1, while leaving all other scale degrees the same.
#15
Quote by isaac_bandits
I usually explain them using parallel modes, as I find that people dont understand them otherwise (or they do but think "why should i learn all these random modes, instead of other random scales?").

I think of modes like this

Lydian (nat 4) = Ionian
Ionian (b7) = Mixolydian
Mixolydian (b3) = Dorian
Dorian (b6) = Aelion
Aeolian (b2) = Phrygian
Phrygian (b5) = Locrian
Locrian (nat 2, nat, 3, #4, nat 5, nat 6, nat7) = Lydian

The locrian - lydian transition can be thought of b1, while leaving all other scale degrees the same.


That seems kind of confusing to me, although your formulas seem correct.

Think about where you apply them, and what type of scales they are.

Ionian = standard major scale
Dorian = minor scale with a raised 6 (natural 6)
phrygian = minor scale with a b2
Lydian = Major scale with a raised 4 (#11)
Mixolydian = Major scale with a b7
Aoleian = natural minor
Locrian = diminished

thinking of it this way will get you to applying them quicker.

playing over a static minor chord? ........ any of the "minor modes" will work, each having their own unique color.

Playing over a static Major chord........ play any of the Major modes ( Ionian and Lydian )

dominant chords ........ play Mixolydian


Your saying you think of the natural minor scale as a dorian with a b6. I would see it the opposite. Dorian = minor with a raised (natural) 6


anyway seeing it this way helped me alot when it came to learning how to apply the modes.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jan 27, 2008,
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky

Your saying you think of the natural minor scale as a dorian with a b6. I would see it the opposite. Dorian = minor with a raised (natural) 6


I see it that way as well. I realize the differences between the modes, so I think of the natural minor as dorian (b6), and as phrygian (nat2), but i also think of dorian as aeolian (nat 6) , and i think as phrygian as aeolian (b2). Its like a "modal circle" which can work in either direction (similar to the circle of fifths)
#17
Quote by isaac_bandits
I see it that way as well. I realize the differences between the modes, so I think of the natural minor as dorian (b6), and as phrygian (nat2), but i also think of dorian as aeolian (nat 6) , and i think as phrygian as aeolian (b2). Its like a "modal circle" which can work in either direction (similar to the circle of fifths)


Thats cool man. you seem to know your stuff
#18
Quote by GuitarMunky
Thats cool man. you seem to know your stuff


One day I just sat down with a pen and paper and started finding all the relationships I could between any and all of the modes.... It worked pretty well... I spent about three hours and now I understand the modes much better, and can actually play them.