#1
Ok let me first start by saying yes i am mic'ing the kit with a full set of drum mics.

My biggest problem is whenever i record drums.. it always gives me the live recording sound. Not the reverb just like when you hear those live recordings (not the professionally done dvd ones, theyre fixed the same as they are studio wise) and i was just wondering how to get rid of that.. cheap i guess.. sound from the drums. gateing everything? compressing everything?
What should i do.

Thanks for any help you can give.
#2
Probably run the audio into a program where ur able to alter the sound. How they do it on stage is that the have a mixer that "fixes" the sound so i would guess you should do the same to the recordings. Maybe using b programs like sonar or some other stuff
#3
Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I'm running logic studio 8. The way its recorded is mics > mixer > interface (motu 828 mkii) > Logic Studio
Last edited by doommaker at Jan 26, 2008,
#5
So soundproofing makes a big difference when recording drums? Any easy ways of doing that without spending 10 grand on the room.
#6
egg cartons on the walls
foam inside them makes it work even better
#7
Use triggers on the drumset to generate sounds from a drum synth, like a Roland TD-7.

I see a TD-7 going at $300 on Ebay.
#8
Basically you are recording all the reflections in your room as well as the primary sound of your drums. Best solution? Sound treatment. Take note that is more important to get the bass frequencies treated that abound in corners than it is to treat the high end because if you only treat the high end the mix will become horribly muddy. Also the high end is typically much easier and cheaper to treat.
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Quote by BrianApocalypse
Good call

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#9
You COULD sound proof your room...and spend alot of money...but..

I get some pretty decent, well pretty darn pro mixes with my garage set up.

The thing is,

Your plugging everything in to the mixer, which does what its made for, mixes all the tracks and makes one.

You need to buy an interface that has multiple inputs so that way you have control of each thing on the drumset.

Once you have control of each thing, you can use Cubase Le(yea the LE version will work kickass if you know how to use it) or you can use any other program but Cubase is more harsh to the sound, which is what you want when your compressing, gating and eq'ing.

So anyways, Gate and Compression is the key my friend.

Snare: is your signature sound when ever you mix anyones drumset. Depends what your looking for but generally speaking you want a bit of compression on the snare to give it a nice smack. When it comes to gating the snare, just make sure you have the gate set to where you pick up the snare and just a bit of its overtones and KABLAM you got yourself a nice sounding snare.

Toms:no gate, and almost no compression, Pan them well and EQ them well.
usually what i do for EQ is cut most of the lows and mids and boost alittle of the highs.

Kick: is what you need to EQ the best. Depends what your looking for but usually the kick is nice and FAT but cuts through the mix.

a nice EQ Is Cut the Lows, Boost Mids, and add some highs but not as much as mids.

Compress just a bit and gate it like the snare.

Hopefully this all makes sense, im well past 7 beers so im pretty buzzed.

Let me know if you have any more Qs
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#10
^ +1

The Roland modules sound good and all but triggering an acoustic kit still lets acoustic sounds out into the room and when you don't have proper acoustic treatment setup then you will still record that.

Your #1 goal should always be to get the audio the way you want it before sending it down a mic and into a PC. It makes life much easier this way so you are not trying to correct everything, some of which cant be corrected though editing.

Acoustic treatment and room design goes a long way. Try getting some stiff insulation panels and covering them with material and then mount them to the walls.

It's best to read up on acoustic treatments before going and doing it yourself as you can overdo it all and make your sound worse...
#11
Quote by Jorsa
egg cartons on the walls
foam inside them makes it work even better

Been there.
They're great at producing dust, growing salmonella, mold, chrome eating bacteria and keep the place smelling like a mushroom cave. Poorly efficient. Forget it.

If you're going to walk the path of cheap, you'll have a much better result hanging carpet from the ceiling, leaving a few inches between the rug and the walls.
#12
ill repeat what i said before but I'm running logic studio 8. The way its recorded is mics > mixer > interface (motu 828 mkii) > Logic Studio, allll the mics are on seperate channels. I'm actually using the mixer as more of a level setter before it hits the interface and using it for a bit of routing if need be.

Is there anything i can do like making wooden frames and hanging a big rug/carpet over it to make a makeshift wall and place a few around the front and general sides of the kit. Coz that would definately be easier than treating a room i dont intend to use for a studio for more than 5 years and even then its pushing it. Would the wall with carpet idea work? or like office dividers with carpet on them. Im not looking for anything perfect just to make it sound less.... well crap. My logic on the walls is it sort of makes a removable drum booth that can be used for... well anything for all members of the band if i say get 4-6 walls that are say 2 metres wide, i can cover the front of the drums nicely or make a nice vocal booth etc etc etc.

At the moment im doing this all just in a spare room, when i can move into an house or somewhere where i have just a room to myself i can definately work on soundproofing and treating the acoustics properly but one of the major problems is money. Wood and carpet isnt expensive, you don't even need good carpet, water damaged stuff probably can do the trick. Acoustic foam and rooms inside rooms is expensive. I'm just looking for EP quality recordings that dont sound like a quick demo take.

What do you guys reckon.
Last edited by doommaker at Jan 27, 2008,
#13
Quote by Jorsa
egg cartons on the walls


wow read a book or something
Quote by ILuvPillows?
Masturbate it off.
#14
are live drums unnecessary? some styles of music do fine with midi drums from FL studio for example. some big bands use midi drums and it sounds fine.
#15
I'm in a five peice band... its for band recordings and there is nooo way in hell i am going through some of the **** my drummer does. That and thats kinda painful," ok were replacing you for a machine when we record thanks come again."
Last edited by doommaker at Jan 27, 2008,
#16
Well, acoustic panels don't cost a fortune and you could fix these to the walls with brackets or something. However, going back to what you said about office dividers with carpet - they sound pretty much like baffle boards, which are used in studios for this purpose. Try those maybe ?

And flyinguitar, what bands use MIDI drums when recording ? (The obvious ones sure, but you're saying you know of rock bands and such who substitute for MIDI when trying to achieve a good acoustic sound?)
There is poetry in despair.
#17
Definitely treat the room. It won't just impact your recording, but also just the effect of being in the room, and the way instruments and music sound in the room. You'd be amazed at how a well treated room can bring your instruments to life.
#18
What about acousticly treated dividers, so instead of spending 1000 on treating the room or whatever the cost i only spend say 100 on a few pannels
#19
^+2
What i was saying was some music doenst work with the electronic sound, so it needs acoustic drums, but midi drums arent as noticeable in some music.
All-american rejects (im not a fan, but some songs on their old album use midi drums)
+44 (you make me smile)
there is more.
#20
Gobos might work, you could build those out of wood.

They'd also be useful for live work, because you could isolate guitar and bass amps to avoid spill.
#21
Quote by flyinguitar
^+2
What i was saying was some music doenst work with the electronic sound, so it needs acoustic drums, but midi drums arent as noticeable in some music.
All-american rejects (im not a fan, but some songs on their old album use midi drums)
+44 (you make me smile)

there is more.



Ok, didn't know that. (Although I haven't heard the songs, but I wouldn't have thought many drummers would have been pleased about using acoustic simulating MIDI drums in exchange for their talents)
There is poetry in despair.
#24
Quote by doommaker


Is there anything i can do like making wooden frames and hanging a big rug/carpet over it to make a makeshift wall and place a few around the front and general sides of the kit. Coz that would definately be easier than treating a room ...

What do you guys reckon.

Yes, that's the cheap way to go. Don't forget to cover up the spot of ceiling right above the drumkit or the sound will bounce against it and back in the overheads.

Start with the walls, floor, and ceiling, eventually adding vertical panels if you still have more transversal reflections to break.

Panels of 2 layers of dirt cheap carpet with an inch or 2 in between of air separation is better than just 1 layer of thicker, more expensive carpet.

You don't even need to cover the whole surface of a wall, consider covering 60%-70% of a surface, AND corners.

Should get you 90% where you want at at most 5% of the cost.
Last edited by ColdGin at Jan 29, 2008,
#25
Quote by fridge_raider
Haha, why would his dad have a shop??



My dad does

I'm not talking about a store, I'm talking about one of those REALLY big rooms where people work. That's where I'm going to record drums once my overheads come in. Nt-5's baby
#26
Ok say i use gobos (the office dividers or whatever i end up with and have stuff on them) and put stuff up on the ceiling above the drums. Do i still need treatment anywhere else and i mean NEED here?
#27
I dunno how many mic's you using but don't over do it. One for bass and maybe 2 (3 or 4 max) over hangs. Too many mic's can lead to that crummy 'live' sound.
#28
My mic setup is

1 kick
3 toms (4 if necesary)
2 snare
2 overheads in an XY pattern
1 hats
#29
For the overheads you picking up just the cymbals or setting them as a stereo pair?
#30
2 snare mic's, I assume you have them top and bottom?

Hats - they pick up a lot of the snare which is nasty. Roll off the frequencies in the mix for them below ~800Hz to ease out the snare.

I'm not sure if anyone else mentioned this but mic bleed is probably your problem. All the mics are picking up everything and it'll sound messy. You'll have to fiddle with where you place the mics to ensure they aren't out of phase. Moving them maybe a centimeter can fix this. It's tedious but it's a HUGH help so you aren't gating everything at the mix.
#31
The overheads are the cymbals but i mean theyre picking up everything else too.

And yeah i point the hats mic directly down. The bottom snare unfortunately picks up alot of kick unless i point the mic directly away from the kick.

By the way, just checking but drums are the hardest things to record well arent they.
#32
Quote by doommaker
Ok say i use gobos ... Do i still need treatment anywhere else and i mean NEED here?


It really depends on whether you got a few nasty reflections to kill.

What mics are you using ? Really, the only mics that contribute in adding reverberation (the live sound) are the overheads.

I'd keep 3 or 4 extra, smaller 1 meter square panels handy

Quote by doommaker
By the way, just checking but drums are the hardest things to record well arent they.

12 string acoustic and bronze stringed guitars are recording feats.

Quote by doommaker
The overheads are the cymbals but i mean theyre picking up everything else too.


Have you tried muting the drums with straps of cloth tape on the skins and the cymbals ? This works wonders for recovering definition and timbre.

Stupid question: does the drumkit have any resonant (bottom) skins on ? Take 'em off and place big fat pillows a few inches below the drum's bottom openings.
Last edited by ColdGin at Jan 30, 2008,
#33
The overheads are small condensors, brand called bardl, theyre actually pretty decent, the rest are dynamic mics. Oh apart from the hats, thats a SDC too.

Why do you say 12 strings are hard? I've recorded them pretty decently in the past


And yeah all the drums have resonant heads, but i'm recording a fusion kit... toms arent that big, ill try the muting trick though. I'm currently recording my friends pearl export, im buying my own in a couple of weeks anyway so wouldnt good tuning fix that problem aswell.
Last edited by doommaker at Jan 30, 2008,
#34
Quote by doommaker
The overheads are small condensors, brand called bardl, theyre actually pretty decent, the rest are dynamic mics. Oh apart from the hats, thats a SDC too.

My impression is your overheads are capturing some reflection mess generated at ceiling level, or eventually are overworking capturing too much tom/kick/snare stuff.

I would take those condensers out and search the sweet overhead spots with sm57s, keeping in mind to capture the cymbals, NOT the toms..
Last edited by ColdGin at Jan 30, 2008,
#35
Short of buying new microphones could i do the same thing with the SDC's and just close mic the 3 cymbals... or is there any way to just get the cymbals with the SDC's.

Ha, unless i use my two LDC's (MXL V67 and AT 4040) as overheads but i dont spose unless its a revolutionary sound thing that two completely different sounding mics will work that well
Last edited by doommaker at Jan 30, 2008,
#36
Quote by doommaker

And yeah all the drums have resonant heads, but i'm recording a fusion kit... toms arent that big,

Aw shucks, you don't want to gate and isolate a fusion kit. Instead of carpet on the separations, you oughta actually use wood planks, like pine.
Quote by doommaker

I'm currently recording my friends pearl export, im buying my own in a couple of weeks anyway so wouldnt good tuning fix that problem aswell.

Here are my standard overhead lay out specs with a pair of condensers. I use either SM81s or C3000s:

- both mike stands placed one next to each about 4-5 feet center in front of the kit
- mikes pointing downwards, between 4-5 feet higher than the toms and about 3-4 feet away from the kit
- one mike pointing towards the right side of the kit, the other towards the left
- one mike pointing towards the hi-hat, the other towards the ride

Quote by doommaker
Short of buying new microphones could i do the same thing with the SDC's and just close mic the 3 cymbals... or is there any way to just get the cymbals with the SDC's.

Yes, absolutely ! Then you go through a reverb fx to make up for the ambience and depth.

Quote by doommaker

Ha, unless i use my two LDC's (MXL V67 and AT 4040) as overheads but i dont spose unless its a revolutionary sound thing that two completely different sounding mics will work that well

Not as overheads, but as ambience mikes in front of the kit, placement:
- one 6 feet away from the kick, the other somewhere between 10 and 12 feet away
- mikes placed at least 5 feet above ground but never less than 3 feet below the ceiling
- both mikes aiming center of kit, 1 foot above the toms
Last edited by ColdGin at Jan 30, 2008,
#37

Aw shucks, you don't want to gate and isolate a fusion kit. Instead of carpet on the separations, you oughta actually use wood planks, like pine. [\quote]


Why do you say that, i'm still playing rock music.. its just a Pearl Export fusion. As far as i know the only difference is the toms are a bit smaller and the 3rd tom is mounted to the ride stand.
#38
Quote by doommaker

Aw shucks, you don't want to gate and isolate a fusion kit. Instead of carpet on the separations, you oughta actually use wood planks, like pine.


Why do you say that, i'm still playing rock music.. its just a Pearl Export fusion. As far as i know the only difference is the toms are a bit smaller and the 3rd tom is mounted to the ride stand.

Dynamics of jazz drummers. You don't compress them, but give them a nice small room with a short delay.
#39
Quote by fridge_raider
Ok, didn't know that. (Although I haven't heard the songs, but I wouldn't have thought many drummers would have been pleased about using acoustic simulating MIDI drums in exchange for their talents)


Well without a doubt drumming is the hardest instrument out of the regular rock band instruments and requires most training and talent to be able to play them good. But there is also a lot of talent involved in the composing of the drums for a song, and if midi sounds better...

obviously i would go for micing a live set if i had a mic set, interface with 8+ inputs, etc, and if i was a drummer Being a guitarist, i know there is more talent in composing than playing. How many people can play guitar exceptional? hundreds of thousands. How many people can compose exceptional music? not near as many.
#40
How many people can play guitar exceptional? hundreds of thousands. How many people can compose exceptional music? not near as many.


Nothing but the truth. I add to this a Steve Vai quote:

"I've seen many great musicians — especially while attending Berklee College of Music — whose technical abilities far overpowered mine. But some of them lacked a healthy attitude about their music and themselves. I'm not saying that you should be an egomaniac, but if you don't appreciate what you're capable of doing, how can you expect others to?"