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#1
I was thinking about this. Some of musicians biggest criticisms is "Oh, he can play really technical stuff, but he has no emotion", even if they are talking about a composer.

If you think about it, can't there be more to Art than emotion? Musical Impressionism is more about depicting atmosphere rather than emotion. Impressionism is my favorite kind of music, and it had heavy influence on Jazz.

Impressionist Music:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=l0IjEPsmtuI

So my questions for you in this thread:

If a musician plays music with strong dynamics, is it really important if he is feeling very emotionally connected to the music?

Do you think it's that important for a musician to display emotion?

Obviously we know that music itself doesn't contain emotion, rather than a display of emotion. But I think that Art can be about more.
#2
I think it's crucial for music to display at least some sort of emotion, not just atmosphere. For example what would Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah, a song with a fantastic and soothing atmosphere be without him putting his soul into it?
#4
I don't know if it is much of a choice for a composer's music to have emotion or not. The example you've given of impressionism was beautiful, it stirred something inside me. I think what you might mean to say is why do people put so much effort into making their music "emotional"? There are many possible answers to this, one being that music can be a way of venting emotional build-up, another being that they are just repeating what the dimwit to their left has just iterated.

John Cage has quoted a philosopher, I've forgotten his name, that said:

There are two things in life that don't have to mean anything: laughter and music.

In conclusion, certain music makes certain people feel certain things, it is all subjective.
Last edited by Paquijón at Jan 27, 2008,
#5
If by displaying emotion, you mean actually physically showing that you are almost carried away with the music, then it is absolutely unnecessary. Music is an aural concern, so I find it hilariously stupid that some people judge a musician's live performance based on how swayed he looks while playing. Musical emotions are in music, not in a man's body.

And as for portraying human emotions and messages through music, it is also not absolutely required. Many forms of music are absolute and non-programmatic, focusing on the music purely for its sounds.

But as for musical emotions, such as dynamics, phrasings, and ornamentations, I find it inartistic and distasteful if a musician failed to create and hit those emotions. The music would sound bland and droning.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#6
People say "Oh, he doesn't play with emotion" when somebody plays some fast stuff. However, what they are really saying is "Damn, that guy is really good, I have to think of an excuse to why he can play faster than me".
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#7
If you write a song about your dick it's not going to be over emotional is it?

Technical players are cool because they can DISPLAY their emotion through their guitar better.
I don't even shred
#8
Quote by Paquijón
I don't know if it is much of a choice for a composer's music to have emotion or not. The example you've given of impressionism was beautiful, it stirred something inside me. I think what you might mean to say is why do people put so much effort into making their music "emotional"? There are many possible answers to this, one being that music can be a way of venting emotional build-up, another being that they are just repeating what the dimwit to their left has just iterated.
I sort of have multiple views of emotion.

1. A guitarist doing bend on the high string, while making some ugly face (a.k.a. Guitargasm)

2. Composing music that depicts emotional qualities like Anger, Happyness, hopefulness, etc.
#9
there is some sort of emotion in all music no matter what
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#10
if there is no emotion then its not music or an art of expression therefore it is only good sounding noise .. thats what your technical guitar playing is
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#11
Quote by Nebjy
If you write a song about your dick it's not going to be over emotional is it?

Technical players are cool because they can DISPLAY their emotion through their guitar better.


Why not? Somebody could write a song about how much he loves masturbation. Last time I checked, love was an "emotion".
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#12
Quote by Xiaoxi
If by displaying emotion, you mean actually physically showing that you are almost carried away with the music, then it is absolutely unnecessary. Music is an aural concern, so I find it hilariously stupid that some people judge a musician's live performance based on how swayed he looks while playing. Musical emotions are in music, not in a man's body.

And as for portraying human emotions and messages through music, it is also not absolutely required. Many forms of music are absolute and non-programmatic, focusing on the music purely for its sounds.

But as for musical emotions, such as dynamics, phrasings, and ornamentations, I find it inartistic and distasteful if a musician failed to create and hit those emotions. The music would sound bland and droning.
I guess I really meant the first two. I really get angry by how many insult John Williams for just sitting there and playing, because so many people call him emotionless for that.

As for the second paragraph, I meant that, too. I really like Romantic music, Mexicana and Blues, which all sort of portray human emotions. However I don't feel like it's the only thing Music should be about.

And I also agree with you on the 3rd part. I get bored easier with little dynamical change, and things of that nature, because it gets dull to me after a while. I don't know why, but I guess I feel that it doesn't sound ambitious enough.
#13
Alter-Bridge, what you said might be the dumbest thing I've ever read.

Most people that 'shred' usually seem like they're just trying to look cool, like they need an ego boost. It doesn't matter how much technique and speed you use if the actual music you make doesn't even sound attractive.
#14
The problem is the only emotion 99% of people see in music is sadness and think that is the only emotion, unfortunately it is not. Ever listened to Operation Ground and Pound solo by Dragonforce? That solo makes feel so happy and epic. Guess what, happiness=emotion.

Another problem is jealous losers think that fast music automatically takes away emotion when it doesn't. Shawn Lane and John Petrucci proved that theory wrong.
#15
Quote by godofthemoon
if there is no emotion then its not music or an art of expression therefore it is only good sounding noise .. thats what your technical guitar playing is
So Art has to depict emotion? Art having rules like this is new to me.
#16
This thread is too sophisticated for me. But I'll say what I have to say.

If I can sense from a song that an artist has put something of themselves into the work, if I can tell from the song writing and the technical skill that it meant something, then it moves something inside me, which is more impressive to me then technical skill.
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#17
I think that the music definately should display emotion, and almost all music does, but I think it's up to the musician whether or not he/she wants to display emotion themselves.

If that's what you mean...
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#18
Quote by symphonyX99
The problem is the only emotion 99% of people see in music is sadness and think that is the only emotion, unfortunately it is not. Ever listened to Operation Ground and Pound solo by Dragonforce? That solo makes feel so happy and epic. Guess what, happiness=emotion.

Another problem is jealous losers think that fast music automatically takes away emotion when it doesn't. Shawn Lane and John Petrucci proved that theory wrong.



Agreed with a lot of people thinking emotional only is sad. Eric Johnson's Cliff of Dover is an awesome example of happy emotions in music. That song always makes me want to pee myself.
#19
Quote by Angry-Mares
For example what would Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah, a song with a fantastic and soothing atmosphere be without him putting his soul into it?


A Leonard Cohen song.
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#20
Quote by athlete1
i think sometimes people don't recognize when emotion is being applied


+1

I believe that the more you concisely articulate emotion through music, less people are going to get the message. imo it's because emotions are infinitely complex and unique...so a song that says "my girlfriend dumped me and it hurts a lot" is going to get much more attention cause well, it's knee-jerk emotion shared by everybody.

Complexity is too often associated with technicalness.
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#21
Quote by The Madcap

As for the second paragraph, I meant that, too. I really like Romantic music, Mexicana and Blues, which all sort of portray human emotions. However I don't feel like it's the only thing Music should be about.
Well, you're not alone. Anyone who likes pre-romantic music or pop music would agree with you.

And I also agree with you on the 3rd part. I get bored easier with little dynamical change, and things of that nature, because it gets dull to me after a while. I don't know why, but I guess I feel that it doesn't sound ambitious enough.

It's dull because there is no change or difference for comparison. There's simply one long constant sound. Boring.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#22
I think there is an artistic "soul" that transcends typical words or description. Simply put, it is just something that is "felt"

Whatever the style of music is, the "soul" at the core is what really takes it to the next level.

A lot of times, people call this "emotional". I don't really dig calling it that, since thats not exactly what it is.
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#23
Alot of people seem to have this idea that if it isn't slow playing, with a few sad bends, then the player isn't showing emotion. I think Yngwie plays with emotion, I think that Necrophagist plays with emotion. The first plays with burning passion, and the latter with absolute hate violence and anger. There are more emotions in the world than just those displayed in blues.
#24
Quote by Xiaoxi
It's dull because there is no change or difference for comparison. There's simply one long constant sound. Boring.
That's one of the reasons I don't care for Metal. Generally speaking, the Metal I have heard (I'm bolding certain parts so all the Metal fans won't freak out) is defined by a dynamic of music. If there's a musician who writes really sensitive and soft sounding music, I don't think he would be considered Metal. Metal is defined by music with a very intense and loud dynamic. I guess it just gets boring to me for the reasons you said.

But remember, people, I speaking in generality.
#25
Quote by The Madcap
That's one of the reasons I don't care for Metal. Generally speaking, the Metal I have heard (I'm bolding certain parts so all the Metal fans won't freak out) is defined by a dynamic of music. If there's a musician who writes really sensitive and soft sounding music, I don't think he would be considered Metal. Metal is defined by music with a very intense and loud dynamic. I guess it just gets boring to me for the reasons you said.

But remember, people, I speaking in generality.

Well, I love Necrophagist but yeah, I only listen to 2 or 3 songs at a time because their style is constant and unwaivering.

However, I think they're interesting in their rhythmic effects and unconventional harmonic structures. They just have no dynamics in the long run, which makes them unlistenable after a few songs. But regardless, I still love them.

I think a lot of metal fans are fine with the fact that there aren't that much dynamic contrasts in the music, and that's fine by me. It's their tastes.

However, bands such as Opeth definitely makes dynamics and the more conventional sense of musical emotions a priority.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#26
well i think that anything anybody makes up involves creativity (obviously) and the creativity comes from the emotions of the people making whatever it is up.

that applies to music, movies, art, dancing, whatever and its impossible for any of them not to have emotion IMO.

people seem to think emotion = sad = david gilmour solo where really why cant a 10nps solo be conveying emotions of anger or frustration, etc.?
#28
Quote by KryptNet
+1

I believe that the more you concisely articulate emotion through music, less people are going to get the message. imo it's because emotions are infinitely complex and unique...so a song that says "my girlfriend dumped me and it hurts a lot" is going to get much more attention cause well, it's knee-jerk emotion shared by everybody.

Complexity is too often associated with technicalness.

Good post, I was going to say something similar.
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#29
If a piece doesn't display emotion or at least some degree of expression, it isn't art. Sorry.
#30
I really don't care if it doesn't express emotion or is simple as heck. If it sounds good to me, I'll listen to it.
...
#31
Quote by The Madcap
That's one of the reasons I don't care for Metal. Generally speaking, the Metal I have heard (I'm bolding certain parts so all the Metal fans won't freak out) is defined by a dynamic of music. If there's a musician who writes really sensitive and soft sounding music, I don't think he would be considered Metal. Metal is defined by music with a very intense and loud dynamic. I guess it just gets boring to me for the reasons you said.

But remember, people, I speaking in generality.


I agree with you partly. I listen to many metal bands that display plenty of emotion in their music. It's not always about dynamics and technicality that makes a metal band. Just don't pay attention to alot of modern metal bands played on headbanger's ball. Metal has integrated itself with different elements. Check out Nightwish, not a very technical band, but the emotion is clearly there.
#32
Quote by solitaryshell90
The thing that most modern metal lacks, is definitely emotion, yeah it's technical, but it's the same pentatonic scales over and over, it's so generic. Personally, I prefer something melodic and emotional over something technical and boring.

...most modern metal avoids the pentatonic scale...

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#33
Quote by suthy16
If a piece doesn't display emotion or at least some degree of expression, it isn't art. Sorry.
I find your definition of Art to be...well, stupid. There's more out there to interest people besides emotion.
#34
I believe that all Art is in the eye of the beholder.
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#35
Quote by The Madcap
I find your definition of Art to be...well, stupid. There's more out there to interest people besides emotion.

Just curious: why do you capitalize art?

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#36
I dont think its important for the player themselves to express emotion... I mean im in an orchestra right, we play some amazing pieces (best school orchestra in the state). If we all suddenly started showing emotion all over our faces or moving around or some **** we would suck and look terrible. We have to keep concentraition on our music, thats first and foremost and it should be to for any sort of musician. But I do think music needs to contain some sort of emotion. Impressionism for me is a very emotional form of music also. Pretty much all music is filled with emotion. People only say that stuff about shred really were the players look more for something thats showing off skill rather than creating a great listening experience which leaves the listener in a state of emotional ecstasy(for the most part dont flame me). To tell you the truth no it doesnt matter to me, if I like the song I like it, I just seem to like songs which envoke and express emotion in me more.
#37
This again...

Music doesn't have emotion, it's just sound. It's the listener who feels emotion. And different listeners react differently to the same music, so the idea that music has emotion somehow embedded in it is stupid.
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#38
Well I think that a song contains an emotion even if it isn't intentional. If you're playing a 20nps solo just because, the listener(word?) might get the show-offy pumping emotion of actually playing that solo or the listener might feel frustrated because he can't play that or something for that matter.
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#39
imo the best music isnt "emotional" or n e of that but causes emotion, like at a section of a song your hairs stand on there ends, that imo is the holy grail of music. even if it makes you just wanna jump up in the air or headbang madly, thats what i like best in music
#40
Yes, there needs to be some or it will be boring as anything, can you put up a poll?
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