#1
Alright so I didn't want to take over anyone else's thread so here is mine
i have a 2x12 cab with bad speakers in it
i thought i wanted vintage 30s but recently i have heard some v30 bashing
i am gonna put my 50watt plexi though the cab
i play a 62 reissue strat or a gibson flying v with seymour duncan pickups
and play classic rock/ chili peppers
anywhere in that rock area, nothing heavier than rage
what do you guys recomend?
tell me pros and cons of each
#2
I have greenbacks and haven't ever had problems/been disappointed. My rhythm player uses eminence speakers and those are good too.
#5
Quote by acdcrocks0323
The vintage 30s are a more scooped sound and the greenbacks are more vintage with a midrange bump. It has that Marshall growl (greenbacks). I would go with them if I were you.



...................................... yeaaahhhh okayyyyy


vintage 30s have an upper mid spike. Usually not used with marshall flavored amps because those amps are already heavy in the upper mids so its usually too bright and probably harsh. They go great with amps that have lower centered mids like rectoa, and they have a tighter bass. Good for modern metal.

Green backs don't have nearly as much of a mid spike, and are warmer. They have a looser bass, and they break up beautifully.

Whoever was bashing v30s was probably an idiot. But with a plexi and that type of music, I would definately take greenbacks, handsdown.
#6
greenbacks are warmer with less sparkling treble, and less bass response too.

that said, it sounds like it has a mid spike, which is awesome with marshalls.
Call me "Shot".

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#8
^old marshalls don't. new marshalls are in desperate need of help from their speakers, tubes, and volume.
Call me "Shot".

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#9
hey,
v30's can't be that bad if people like Steve vai use them...
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Fractal Axe FX
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#10
Quote by Say Ocean
...................................... yeaaahhhh okayyyyy


vintage 30s have an upper mid spike. Usually not used with marshall flavored amps because those amps are already heavy in the upper mids so its usually too bright and probably harsh. They go great with amps that have lower centered mids like rectoa, and they have a tighter bass. Good for modern metal.

Green backs don't have nearly as much of a mid spike, and are warmer. They have a looser bass, and they break up beautifully.

Whoever was bashing v30s was probably an idiot. But with a plexi and that type of music, I would definately take greenbacks, handsdown.

ha +1

lately it seems like just because v30s are often used in metal setups, people automatically think they have a mid scoop
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#11
Quote by tenaciousjp
hey,
v30's can't be that bad if people like Steve vai use them...


No, BUT!

Vintage 30's are good "metal" speakers and if you don't have a lot of upper mids.

This guy plays a Plexi which has, a lot of upper mids (which get them to sound muddy with a V30) and the Vintage 30 has a very harsh treble. They're not vintage sounding at all, they're very modern. This guy doesn't play metal, he plays classic rock and RHCP, which the V30 is AWFUL for IMHO.

Yes I have owned a V30, I sold it for that purpose.
Quote by stratman_13
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#12
Glad you started this thread, because I've been pondering the EXACT same thing! Been trying to decide between Greenbacks, or V30s . . .

I have a non-plus, 6505 head, and like to play all genres of metal sounds. I NEVER play clean. For the phattest, sweetest, fullest-sounding distortion, as a RECORDING cab, which would most prefer with that head?

I've demo-ed a ton of heads through V30-filled 4x12s. Then, I played a Framus Cobra through a 4x12, Greenback-filled, Divided by Thirteen cab, and boy, did THAT sound goddamned f*cking good. Sh*tloads of thumping, thundering bass response, and incredibly well-defined mids and highs, too (of course, the Framus is an amazing-sounding amp, and would probably sound pretty good through almost anything).

What do you guys think? Greenbacks or V30s? This will be used specifically for recording ONLY. I have a large-diaphragm, AT3035, side-address, condenser mic, and an SM57. I plan to dual-mic the cab (haven't chosen my micpres yet). These would be going into a Marshall MC212 cabinet.

Any replies would be MOST appreciated!
.
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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Jan 29, 2008,
#13
in my head, i just simulated a 6505 with a 4x12 with greenbacks... and it sounded like van halen... lol.

i just simulated a 6505 with a 4x12 with V30s... kinda trebly... sort of paul gilbert'ish...
Call me "Shot".

ShotRod Guitar Works

Custom Hand-wired Amplifiers and Effect Pedals.

Est. 2007


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#14
Thanks, EC! Good answer! Short, yet very descriptive! My dream set-up would probably be that Framus Cobra through that Divided by Thirteeen 4x12 Greenback cab. :::sigh::: Guess I'll just settle for two Greenbacks (or two V30s) and my 6505 . . .

Anyone else?
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#16
LEVEL4: Go with the V30s. The Greenbacks are ONLY rated at 25W and the 5150 is rated at 120W. Even if you had a 4x12 with Greenbacks, you could blow them.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

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#18
Quote by Gabel
LEVEL4: Go with the V30s. The Greenbacks are ONLY rated at 25W and the 5150 is rated at 120W. Even if you had a 4x12 with Greenbacks, you could blow them.



I am not sure that is necessarily true. For instance. The 5150III head is 100W head, but the cabinet that goes with it is loaded with 4 G12EVH which are 20W speakers, so they are selling an 80w cab to go with a 100W head? I doubt he would blow the greenbacks. You would hear speakers being pushed before they would blow. In addition, the greenbacks have a 16 ohm version so you could wire it in series and you would have a lot less impedance.
Current Rig:
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MXR MX108 10 Band EQ.
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#19
^Well he's putting them in a 2x12 cabinet. So 2 Greenbacks would give him a power rating of 50 watts, which DANGEROUSLY low.
Quote by stratman_13
It's okay Gabel. You kick ass.



18watter video demo

My band

Recognised by the Official EG/GG&A Who To Listen To List 2009
#20
Quote by zoomzilla
In addition, the greenbacks have a 16 ohm version so you could wire it in series and you would have a lot less impedance.


You wire them in series, you'll get an impedance of 32Ω (for two) or 64Ω (for four): which his amp obviously can't handle.

Regardless, I don't see how impedance is relevant here at all.
#21
Quote by Gabel
^Well he's putting them in a 2x12 cabinet. So 2 Greenbacks would give him a power rating of 50 watts, which DANGEROUSLY low.


Oh, I missed the 2X12 part. yeah, that is a bad idea to do that!
Current Rig:
Splawn Quickrod
Marshall 1960BX
Electrics:
Les Paul with Dirty Fingers
Kramer
Acoustics:
Hohner
Ibanez
Pedals:
Isp Decimator
Cry Baby Wah
MXR MX108 10 Band EQ.
BBE Green Screamer
#24
Yes. I have the greenbacks and they are beastly. I still prefer my EV's over anything that Celestion makes, but as far as celestion, the greenbacks are the speaker to get.
Current Rig:
Splawn Quickrod
Marshall 1960BX
Electrics:
Les Paul with Dirty Fingers
Kramer
Acoustics:
Hohner
Ibanez
Pedals:
Isp Decimator
Cry Baby Wah
MXR MX108 10 Band EQ.
BBE Green Screamer
#25
contrary to popular opinions, greenbacks can get pretty heavy. for your kind of music id still go with them.
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I want an amp good for playing hippie tunes. I want it to be an actual amp, not a tube amp.
#27
Wait! I screwed up! I went to play the Framus Cobra again today at Guitar Center. I spent like two hours switching between a Marshall 1960 and a Divided by Thirteen 4x12 cab. The Divided by Thirteen cab is loaded with G12H speakers, NOT Greenbacks! Man, I f*ckin' LOVE the sound of those G12H speakers! TONS of bass! Lots of mids and highs. Those speakers sound REALLY full!

Quote by Gabel
LEVEL4: Go with the V30s. The Greenbacks are ONLY rated at 25W and the 5150 is rated at 120W. Even if you had a 4x12 with Greenbacks, you could blow them.
Thanks for the head's up. I've pulled two of the tubes in my 6505, so it's only a 60-Watt amp now. Will also use this cab for my Engl preamp, and a yet-to-be-purchased, Mesa 20/20 someday.

Quote by mr_hankey
^Go with G12H's instead?
You read my mind? Why the G12Hs, in your opinion? What is it about them that you like?
.
American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Jan 30, 2008,
#28
TS: If I were you, I would go for Greenbacks without hesitation.
Quote by LEVEL4
Wait! I screwed up! I went to play the Framus Cobra again today at Guitar Center. I spent like two hours switching between a Marshall 1960 and a Divided by Thirteen 4x12 cab. The Divided by Thirteen cab is loaded with G12H speakers, NOT Greenbacks! Man, I f*ckin' LOVE the sound of those G12H speakers! TONS of bass! Lots of mids and highs. Those speakers sound REALLY full!

Be careful mate, because the Cobra is VERY picky about the cabs it likes. It really doesn't make a very good pair with the 1960 cab, but I've heard 5150s sounding great through them. If you can, take your head into the shop and try different cabinets out, it's the only way you can make an informed desicion.
#29
Quote by LEVEL4
Wait! I screwed up! I went to play the Framus Cobra again today at Guitar Center. I spent like two hours switching between a Marshall 1960 and a Divided by Thirteen 4x12 cab. The Divided by Thirteen cab is loaded with G12H speakers, NOT Greenbacks! Man, I f*ckin' LOVE the sound of those G12H speakers! TONS of bass! Lots of mids and highs. Those speakers sound REALLY full!

Thanks for the head's up. I've pulled two of the tubes in my 6505, so it's only a 60-Watt amp now. Will also use this cab for my Engl preamp, and a yet-to-be-purchased, Mesa 20/20 someday.

You read my mind? Why the G12Hs, in your opinion? What is it about them that you like?



You do realize that the only difference between the G12M (Greenbacks) and the G12H is the magnet? The M is for Medium and H is for Heavy.
Current Rig:
Splawn Quickrod
Marshall 1960BX
Electrics:
Les Paul with Dirty Fingers
Kramer
Acoustics:
Hohner
Ibanez
Pedals:
Isp Decimator
Cry Baby Wah
MXR MX108 10 Band EQ.
BBE Green Screamer
#30
Quote by Nolly
TS: If I were you, I would go for Greenbacks without hesitation.

Be careful mate, because the Cobra is VERY picky about the cabs it likes. It really doesn't make a very good pair with the 1960 cab, but I've heard 5150s sounding great through them. If you can, take your head into the shop and try different cabinets out, it's the only way you can make an informed desicion.
Really? I would imagine that the Cobra would sound good though pretty much ANYTHING! I gotta tell ya, there wasn't really a HUGE difference between the G12Hs and the 1960, at least at the volumes I tried them at. Do you prefer the Greenbacks over the G12Hs?

Quote by zoomzilla
You do realize that the only difference between the G12M (Greenbacks) and the G12H is the magnet? The M is for Medium and H is for Heavy.
Yes, I know, the 'H' stands for "heavy" as in a heavier magnet. That's what accounts for its excellent bass response. The speaker is more efficient too—louder! Love the sound of those!
.
American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Jan 31, 2008,
#31
Quote by LEVEL4
Thanks, EC! Good answer! Short, yet very descriptive! My dream set-up would probably be that Framus Cobra through that Divided by Thirteeen 4x12 Greenback cab. :::sigh::: Guess I'll just settle for two Greenbacks (or two V30s) and my 6505 . . .

Anyone else?


How 'bout one of each? that's the beauty of a 2x12 cab..
...
#32
Quote by LEVEL4
You read my mind? Why the G12Hs, in your opinion? What is it about them that you like?


Higher power handling. I prefer G12M's, but they're not that different.
#33
Quote by LEVEL4
Really? I would imagine that the Cobra would sound good though pretty much ANYTHING! I gotta tell ya, there wasn't really a HUGE difference between the G12Hs and the 1960, at least at the volumes I tried them at. Do you prefer the Greenbacks over the G12Hs?

Well, it certainly sounds great through most things, but only sounds at it's best through certain cabs. It's that sizzly high-end it has, can make the sound very harsh through certain cabs like the 1960. Hence the use of Greenbacks in the matching cab, through which the Cobra does sound amazing.
Despite having V30s, I've found that Orange cabs are the best match for a Cobra - they really sound amazingly huge and tight.
#34
Quote by mr_hankey
Higher power handling. I prefer G12M's, but they're not that different.
Ah . . . thanks for your input. The differences, IMO, are actually far more subtle than I had expected.

Quote by bartdevil_metal
How 'bout one of each? that's the beauty of a 2x12 cab..
DUH! Good idea! A V30 + G12H, perhaps?

Quote by Nolly
Well, it certainly sounds great through most things, but only sounds at it's best through certain cabs. It's that sizzly high-end it has, can make the sound very harsh through certain cabs like the 1960. Hence the use of Greenbacks in the matching cab, through which the Cobra does sound amazing.
Despite having V30s, I've found that Orange cabs are the best match for a Cobra - they really sound amazingly huge and tight.
Thanks for your replies. Funny you mention that, because, now, I think I'm switching heads. Sorry to take this thread a bit off-topic, but maybe I'd soon tire of the Cobra's "sizzle" and start Jonesing for that dark, toneful, Mesa-ish sound that the Soldano has.

Kinda already committed on the 2x12 cab itself, though. Got a killer price on the MC212 on Black Friday. So, what would everyone prefer to pair a Soldano with? I'm still thinking the G12Hs . . .
.
American HM Strat | LP Studio
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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Feb 1, 2008,
#35
Quote by LEVEL4
Thanks for your replies. Funny you mention that, because, now, I think I'm switching heads. Sorry to take this thread a bit off-topic, but maybe I'd soon tire of the Cobra's "sizzle" and start Jonesing for that dark, toneful, Mesa-ish sound that the Soldano has.

Well, the Soldano has that slight sizzle to it as well.. EQ'd badly, the Cobra can sound pretty mediocre and that sizzle can be a bit fizzy, but when you find some good settings it absolutely destroys most other amps. The Soldanos are, of course, absolutely incredible sounding amps, but even the SLO is about as versatile as a 5150.

Have you looked into an Engl Invader 100? Blindingly good amp, amazingly versatile and you can get a whole load of different high-gain tones out of it. Runs on EL34s so has that Framus-y fat and clear sound to it, but also has that really tight Engl tone. Plus, it lights up blue .
#36
Quote by Nolly
Well, the Soldano has that slight sizzle to it as well.. EQ'd badly, the Cobra can sound pretty mediocre and that sizzle can be a bit fizzy, but when you find some good settings it absolutely destroys most other amps. The Soldanos are, of course, absolutely incredible sounding amps, but even the SLO is about as versatile as a 5150.

Have you looked into an Engl Invader 100? Blindingly good amp, amazingly versatile and you can get a whole load of different high-gain tones out of it. Runs on EL34s so has that Framus-y fat and clear sound to it, but also has that really tight Engl tone. Plus, it lights up blue.
Thanks again for yet another thoughtful, detailed reply. Can't seem to demo Engls anywhere in L.A., and it's difficult to rationalize buying an amp without demoing it. I have an Engl preamp, but that's a whole different deal than a whole Engl tube amp.

I pretty much agree with most of your assessments, too. "Framus-y fat" describes that amp perfectly. But, I really wasn't able to EQ a "bad" sound out of that Cobra when I was fooling around with it at Guitar Center. At first, I was completely smitten with the Cobra, but now, it seems, I'm swinging back to wanting that "pure" Soldano sound. Ya really think the SLO is as one-trick-ponyish as the 6505?

I just have to decide WHICH sound I want, and which tone will ultimately endure longest. Of course the real answer is only for people with lots of disposable income—you really need more than one amp. A one-trick pony of "each pony." A "big studio" guitar-recording technique I read about recently is to have a Mesa/Boogie at one end of the sonic spectrum, a Fender Twin on the other, and two "in-between" amps in the middle, recording all four amps simultaneously.

Oh yeah . . . one more question: there's two types of G12Hs—a "Classic" and a "Heritage." Which/how to choose?
.
American HM Strat | LP Studio
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Last edited by LEVEL4 at Feb 1, 2008,
#37
Quote by LEVEL4
Thanks again for yet another thoughtful, detailed reply. Can't seem to demo Engls anywhere in L.A., and it's difficult to rationalize buying an amp without demoing it. I have an Engl preamp, but that's a whole different deal than a whole Engl tube amp.

I pretty much agree with most of your assessments, too. "Framus-y fat" describes that amp perfectly. But, I really wasn't able to EQ a "bad" sound out of that Cobra when I was fooling around with it at Guitar Center. At first, I was completely smitten with the Cobra, but now, it seems, I'm swinging back to wanting that "pure" Soldano sound. Ya really think the SLO is as one-trick-ponyish as the 6505?

Shame you can't try out Engls, I understand your sentiments exactly though.

I'm exaggerating when I say the Cobra sounds "mediocre" when EQ'd badly - it still sounds amazing by most standards. However, it takes a bit of fiddling to get the amp to sound its absolute best, at which point you'll be grinning like a madman.

I do think the SLO is pretty similar to the 6505 in versatility.. Well, the 6505+ anyway. After hearing such an amazing drive sound, the clean channel feels like the designers bolted it on as an afterthought. It's certainly usable, but just not good enough for me to justify the price tag.

Have you thought about having your 6505 modded? I've heard an FJA modded 5150II that you could easily imagine to be an SLO. The 5150 was based on the Soldano anyway.. Worth a thought.
#38
Quote by Nolly
Have you thought about having your 6505 modded? I've heard an FJA modded 5150II that you could easily imagine to be an SLO. The 5150 was based on the Soldano anyway.. Worth a thought.
Yes, absolutely. I think of the 5150/6505s as a sort of like stock Mustang GT. And Jerry [FJAmods], takes that stock engine, throws on a blower and some racing cams, and really turns that inexpensive Peavey amp into a very, very nice-sounding "boutique" amp. I agree, Jerry's mods sound really amazing. Sorta like turning a 6505 into a Mako or something for a few hundred dollars.
.
American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

.
#39
Quote by LEVEL4
Yes, absolutely. I think of the 5150/6505s as a sort of like stock Mustang GT. And Jerry [FJAmods], takes that stock engine, throws on a blower and some racing cams, and really turns that inexpensive Peavey amp into a very, very nice-sounding "boutique" amp. I agree, Jerry's mods sound really amazing. Sorta like turning a 6505 into a Mako or something for a few hundred dollars.

Well, you could mod your 6505, and buy yourself a dedicated clean amp for the same kind of money as a Cobra..
#40
Quote by Nolly
Well, you could mod your 6505, and buy yourself a dedicated clean amp for the same kind of money as a Cobra..
HA! No, I wouldn't buy a Cobra new. There's a couple on Ebay I was considering that Riffhog brought to my attention. But, I think you're right. An FJA-modded 6505 would sound pretty damned good, and would lessen the "need" for a Framus anyway.
.
American HM Strat | LP Studio
Soldano Avenger w/DeYoung OT | Mark IV rackmount | DC-3 rackmount | Single-Recto

.