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#1
Rudd's apologising to the Stolen Generation.

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23134909-662,00.html

Thoughts? Opinions?

Personally, I think it's silly. It's not our fault, our forefathers maybe, but half of us aren't even FROM Britain.

Also, it just means that the elite Aboriginals will get a chance to become even more so and the rest will just be stuck where they are. It will lead to a bunch of law suits that we can't deal with and that will fall instantly back onto the government and therefore the taxpayers.

I dislike Rudd, and always have, and this just agrees with it.
______________________________________________---

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/apology/text.htm

That's what he's going to say
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Quote by punkman_123
Damn Auals, you're messed up. :P


Quote by ZanasCross
This just reminded me of the time that my brother in law texted his mom on the night after his wedding. All it said was "Consummated."
Last edited by Auals at Feb 12, 2008,
#2
howard is worse and its just to get our connections with the aboriginal's

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#3
It doesnt matter if we didnt do it.
Aboriginal people have been whinging for that long about the whole thing that we might as well just say it so we can start to move forward on the whole issue.

im happy about it.
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#4
No its not our fault. That doesn't mean we cant apologize for their actions. Just because we didn't do it doesnt mean we cant tell the stolen generation that we are sorry for what happened to them, we know it was wrong and against the law and we are sorry.

Fact of the matter is that they are now a dying race because we destroyed them over the past 2 hundred years, if we cant be sorry for that what can we be sorry for
Quote by mattvl
Listen to this guy, he's australian. If there are any people out there who know how to handle women it's australians.
#5
Rudd is a moron. All the people who voted for him cost us the best thing that ever happened to Australia.
#7
Quote by Ravenwoods
Rudd is a moron. All the people who voted for him cost us the best thing that ever happened to Australia.


...so HE killed Steve Irwin???
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#8
god, it seems like you have to have a permission and an allicated time to say sorry these days! he could have done it today if he wanted, but i supposse that leaving it till parliament meets will have it's advantages, more media, more people watching ect.
#9
i dont really care to be honest. whether he says sorry or not doesnt have anything to do with me.

im just sitting here waiting for this broadband he talked up, screw these 5 year plans and that crap i want it overnight

and for the record i voted for Johnny even though neither are ideal prime ministers IMO. I just hate julia gilliard lol
#10
aboriginals are good for nothing petrol sniffers, wasting my taxes on welfare, and rudd is the biggest douche of all time, he has no integrity whatsoever, and just doesnt what the public wants him to do to achieve votes and popularity.!
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#11
man, I was hoping this thread was about Paul Rudd. I love that guy.
"There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."-Duke
#12
What an idiot, he will give everyone our land now, of course they had it first. But everyone like treats them like they are the best and stuff and they treat us like sh*t, I've even bashed up a Aboriginal because they being a wanker to me.

i'm not being racist, I'm just saying the Aboriginals i know just sit around in class doing nothing and wag school for like 2 years and the teachers do nothing, and if i waged a session, they would give me all these punishments and stuff, i don't know what goes on but thats just what i see
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#13
Quote by bris_guitar_guy
aboriginals are good for nothing petrol sniffers, wasting my taxes on welfare, and rudd is the biggest douche of all time, he has no integrity whatsoever, and just doesnt what the public wants him to do to achieve votes and popularity.!

I guess you've met all of them, then?

And the reason a lot of them are petrol sniffers and are on welfare is because they don't know how to function in Western society, their own being very different, and we have made it impossible for them to live their traditional way. It's entirely our fault that they're 'petrol sniffers' and on welfare, they deserve this apology (obviously not literally OUR fault, but the fault of the people that took away their original lifestyle).
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#14
Quote by whalepudding
I guess you've met all of them, then?

And the reason a lot of them are petrol sniffers and are on welfare is because they don't know how to function in Western society, their own being very different, and we have made it impossible for them to live their traditional way. It's entirely our fault that they're 'petrol sniffers' and on welfare, they deserve this apology (obviously not literally OUR fault, but the fault of the people that took away their original lifestyle).


I agree totally. Last time there was a thread like this it descended into the deep undercurrent of racism that exists in Australia.
#15
Quote by whalepudding
I guess you've met all of them, then?

And the reason a lot of them are petrol sniffers and are on welfare is because they don't know how to function in Western society, their own being very different, and we have made it impossible for them to live their traditional way. It's entirely our fault that they're 'petrol sniffers' and on welfare, they deserve this apology (obviously not literally OUR fault, but the fault of the people that took away their original lifestyle).

Saying sorry is hyprocrytical of all of us. If we are truely sorry then we'd all pack up and leave the country for aboriginals to waste this land with their stupid spirituality bull****. I am for one not sorry.
#16
Quote by Ravenwoods
Saying sorry is hyprocrytical of all of us. If we are truely sorry then we'd all pack up and leave the country for aboriginals to waste this land with their stupid spirituality bull****. I am for one not sorry.



I think there is a little bit more to it then simply 'land'
there are many things you cant replace, but i do feel an apology is in order. Better late than never.
I agree with whalepudding.
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#17
Well, without this turning into a threat about Rudd getting elected, all my friends who could vote voted for Rudd almost PURELY because he was on "Rove", for the record I turned 18 on the 30th of December and so wasn't elegible to vote so me bitching about it is probably irrelevant. But I still think that it was stupid.

Quote by Dimester Ds
What an idiot, he will give everyone our land now, of course they had it first. But everyone like treats them like they are the best and stuff and they treat us like sh*t, I've even bashed up a Aboriginal because they being a wanker to me.

i'm not being racist, I'm just saying the Aboriginals i know just sit around in class doing nothing and wag school for like 2 years and the teachers do nothing, and if i waged a session, they would give me all these punishments and stuff, i don't know what goes on but thats just what i see


I haven't met "all of them" like that guy was saying before, however the one's around here have all dropped out of school, I know 2 only who are still going to the school I went to. It is, I say this without bragging, the most academically and physically challenging of the schools in my area.

The ones around here are good, the younger ones are a bit... anger inclined, however they're mostly ok.
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Quote by punkman_123
Damn Auals, you're messed up. :P


Quote by ZanasCross
This just reminded me of the time that my brother in law texted his mom on the night after his wedding. All it said was "Consummated."
#18
I agree with auals. This is rediculous. All this does is open the way for lawsuits. This does not help the aboriginal people in any way, infact most australians ancestors were more than likely not in the country or were in anyway involved in the stolen generation. Im glad his not setting up compensation, but all this does is say we are sorry for a bunch of people who I doubt if they were still alive would be sorry.

Edit: Also I have no idea why the australian people arnt being told how this is will read. What exactly will it say? Im fairly sure it wont just say "We are sorry", id with he would release what will be said before so australians can voice their views.
Last edited by Feel bad inc. at Jan 31, 2008,
#19
Quote by Auals
Well, without this turning into a threat about Rudd getting elected, all my friends who could vote voted for Rudd almost PURELY because he was on "Rove", for the record I turned 18 on the 30th of December and so wasn't elegible to vote so me bitching about it is probably irrelevant. But I still think that it was stupid.


I find that rather funny. Why do people not understand that voting is more than just picking the one you like the most but about which candidate stands for the things you believe in. Unfortunately, A democracy includes the votes of all the fools who let the media influence their decision to the point of deciding their view point on an issue b4 they even know what the issue is.
Quote by mattvl
Listen to this guy, he's australian. If there are any people out there who know how to handle women it's australians.
#20
Quote by Ravenwoods
Saying sorry is hyprocrytical of all of us. If we are truely sorry then we'd all pack up and leave the country for aboriginals to waste this land with their stupid spirituality bull****. I am for one not sorry.



You are grossly ignorant.
How would you like it if someone came to your house killed your family, forced you to live culturally isolated in an alien society or tried to 'civilise' you by taking you away from your family and shoving doctrine down your throat because of your
'stupid spirituality bull****'.

Grow the **** up.
Oh dear god, I dont feel alive.
I have a new blog, of the interesting type.

In so far i have seen,

1. The Darkness
2. Wolfmother
3. The Grates
4. Faker
5. Kings of Leon
6. Coheed and Cambria
7. Architecture in Helsinki

and counting.
#21
Quote by Feel bad inc.
I agree with auals. This is rediculous. All this does is open the way for lawsuits. This does not help the aboriginal people in any way, infact most australians ancestors were more than likely not in the country or were in anyway involved in the stolen generation. Im glad his not setting up compensation, but all this does is say we are sorry for a bunch of people who I doubt if they were still alive would be sorry.

Edit: Also I have no idea why the australian people arnt being told how this is will read. What exactly will it say? Im fairly sure it wont just say "We are sorry", id with he would release what will be said before so australians can voice their views.


We have both apologised to, and continue to pay compensation to our indigenous people, our country hasn't fallen apart. It's called being responsible, at least on the Crown's part.
#22
Quote by whalepudding
I guess you've met all of them, then?

And the reason a lot of them are petrol sniffers and are on welfare is because they don't know how to function in Western society, their own being very different, and we have made it impossible for them to live their traditional way. It's entirely our fault that they're 'petrol sniffers' and on welfare, they deserve this apology (obviously not literally OUR fault, but the fault of the people that took away their original lifestyle).


haha

Most of these aboriginal paint snifers never lived in the 'traditional' way of life, nor did their parents, and more than likely not their grandparents didnt either. Yes its a shame we destroyed their culture. But guess what, they get paid more welfare, there are programs within schools to help them, they choose to live this life. There are many example of aboriginals who are not like this, infact many of them are succesful in their choice of work. Sure we are to blame in some part, but they could help and change themselves instead of looking to the government to do everything for them like they do now.


Fact of the matter is that they are now a dying race because we destroyed them over the past 2 hundred years, if we cant be sorry for that what can we be sorry for


They arnt a dieing race, the culture is virtualy dead amongst many of them yes, but they are not in any way a dieing race.
#23
Quote by jimmmypage#1
You are grossly ignorant.
How would you like it if someone came to your house killed your family, forced you to live culturally isolated in an alien society or tried to 'civilise' you by taking you away from your family and shoving doctrine down your throat because of your
'stupid spirituality bull****'.

Grow the **** up.

if it was a better life I would happily go with them
#24
Quote by Kiwi Ace
We have both apologised to, and continue to pay compensation to our indigenous people, our country hasn't fallen apart. It's called being responsible, at least on the Crown's part.


I never said the country will fall apart, im just saying id rather see exactly what the wording of this apology is.
#25
Quote by Feel bad inc.
haha

Most of these aboriginal paint snifers never lived in the 'traditional' way of life, nor did their parents, and more than likely not their grandparents didnt either. Yes its a shame we destroyed their culture. But guess what, they get paid more welfare, there are programs within schools to help them, they choose to live this life. There are many example of aboriginals who are not like this, infact many of them are succesful in their choice of work. Sure we are to blame in some part, but they could help and change themselves instead of looking to the government to do everything for them like they do now.
A parent that does not understand western society cannot teach a child to understand western society.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#26
Quote by Ravenwoods
if it was a better life I would happily go with them


I suppose ignorance is bliss.
Oh dear god, I dont feel alive.
I have a new blog, of the interesting type.

In so far i have seen,

1. The Darkness
2. Wolfmother
3. The Grates
4. Faker
5. Kings of Leon
6. Coheed and Cambria
7. Architecture in Helsinki

and counting.
#27
Quote by Feel bad inc.
haha

Most of these aboriginal paint snifers never lived in the 'traditional' way of life, nor did their parents, and more than likely not their grandparents didnt either. Yes its a shame we destroyed their culture. But guess what, they get paid more welfare, there are programs within schools to help them, they choose to live this life. There are many example of aboriginals who are not like this, infact many of them are succesful in their choice of work. Sure we are to blame in some part, but they could help and change themselves instead of looking to the government to do everything for them like they do now.

Who's fault's that?
Quote by Feel bad inc.
They arnt a dieing race, the culture is virtualy dead amongst many of them yes, but they are not in any way a dieing race.

Who's fault's that?
Quote by Ravenwoods
if it was a better life I would happily go with them

You imply that your way of life is better than their pre-European way of life. What gives you the right to decide whose life is better?
Quote by Feel bad inc.
I never said the country will fall apart, im just saying id rather see exactly what the wording of this apology is.

You said you were glad they were not paying compensation...
#28
Quote by whalepudding
A parent that does not understand western society cannot teach a child to understand western society.


True but the children can learn, I know many kids who's parents dont speak much english, nor were born in any western country. They arnt running around sniffing glue and beating me up on the street because im white. Its all a matter of choices, its up to them to choose what they want to do.
#29
Personally speaking it doesnt affect me so I'm indifferent.

But I'd rather he didnt do it. What i can see happening is that the Aboriginal leaders will accept the apology, and then use that against the governemtn to get more tax payer dollars on useless causes, something like all aboriginal schools.

Everyone should go to school together. Don't get me started on muslim schools making taxpayers pay for security guards.

Back on topic, obviously aboriginals get alot of funding, clearly not enough, but it'll never be enough according to them, and apologising simply says "we were wrong. we owe you.". I believe there are a few aboriginal leaders who want to move on and educate their young, but i believe there are even more who would fluff it all away and be wastes.
#30
Quote by Kiwi Ace
Who's fault's that?

The early white british settlers

Who's fault's that?

The early white british settlers

You said you were glad they were not paying compensation

Sorry, I am glad we arnt. My personal view is instead of handing out money, maybe put in place some more social programs, id just rather not give these people more drug and booze money personaly.
#31
Quote by Feel bad inc.
True but the children can learn, I know many kids who's parents dont speak much english, nor were born in any western country. They arnt running around sniffing glue and beating me up on the street because im white. Its all a matter of choices, its up to them to choose what they want to do.

Mainly because they decided to come to Australia for a better life; they knew what they where getting into and why. The Aboriginals did not have a choice, the European way of life was forced upon them.
Quote by Feel bad inc.
The early white british settlers

Actually it was the Crown, who should be responsible for their actions.
Quote by Feel bad inc.
Sorry, I am glad we arnt. My personal view is instead of handing out money, maybe put in place some more social programs, id just rather not give these people more drug and booze money personaly.

How about giving more land rights, giving the community leaders more help in running their society, putting more money into re invigorating the culture. It's working here.
Last edited by Kiwi Ace at Jan 31, 2008,
#32
Quote by Kiwi Ace
Mainly because they decided to come to Australia for a better life; they knew what they where getting into and why. The Aboriginals did not have a choice, the European way of life was forced upon them.


Well im sure they can now get over it and make a bit more effort. Either that or go back to their way of life, nobody is stopping them.
#33
Quote by Feel bad inc.
True but the children can learn, I know many kids who's parents dont speak much english, nor were born in any western country. They arnt running around sniffing glue and beating me up on the street because im white. Its all a matter of choices, its up to them to choose what they want to do.

The aboriginal way of life was incredibly simple, and ours is very complicated. I'm guessing the people you're talking about came from countries where it is at least similar.

There was a documentary about this kind of thing, I forget what it was called, but it had a lot of interviews with aboriginal paint sniffers who were on welfare. A lot of them said they didn't even understand basic things they needed to know to function in Western society like numbers, money and jobs - these are things that people learn when they are very young, and would be very hard to learn when they're old enough to go to school. This is entirely a guess, but I think the Aboriginals who became successful are ones who lived around a lot of non-Aboriginals. Most of the paints sniffer ones are definitely from predominantly Aboriginal communities.

Quote by Feel bad inc.
Well im sure they can now get over it and make a bit more effort. Either that or go back to their way of life, nobody is stopping them.

Yes they are. Aboriginals were spiritually attached to their land - it went belong owning it, they belonged to it. This land is now polluted, inhabited by introduced species and owned by non-Aboriginals who certainly haven't left it as it was to say the least.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
Last edited by whalepudding at Jan 31, 2008,
#34
Its pretty easy to say that Feel Bad, but i think the actual integration process is far more difficult than you percieve it to be.
Oh dear god, I dont feel alive.
I have a new blog, of the interesting type.

In so far i have seen,

1. The Darkness
2. Wolfmother
3. The Grates
4. Faker
5. Kings of Leon
6. Coheed and Cambria
7. Architecture in Helsinki

and counting.
#35
To Kiwi Ace

If he says "Sorry for what our forefathers did and everything that occured from it" then it comes onto our shoulders and can be used to rip the **** out of us.

If he says "We are sorry for what happened, and wish it hadn't" then we are taking no responsibility for it.

How he words everything matters IMMENSELY. I know that he has proffesional writers to write it for him, however, I'd still like to see it.
Need Singing Advice?; Read the first page then ask questions.

Quote by punkman_123
Damn Auals, you're messed up. :P


Quote by ZanasCross
This just reminded me of the time that my brother in law texted his mom on the night after his wedding. All it said was "Consummated."
#36
Quote by Kiwi Ace
You imply that your way of life is better than their pre-European way of life. What gives you the right to decide whose life is better?

ummm i don't have to **** in a hole?
#37
To Feel bad inc, basically what whalepudding and jimmmypage#1 said.
Quote by Auals
To Kiwi Ace

If he says "Sorry for what our forefathers did and everything that occured from it" then it comes onto our shoulders and can be used to rip the **** out of us.

If he says "We are sorry for what happened, and wish it hadn't" then we are taking no responsibility for it.

How he words everything matters IMMENSELY. I know that he has proffesional writers to write it for him, however, I'd still like to see it.

Well if your government set up some form of statutorily prescribed compensation to channel claims there wouldn't be an issue, would there? Even though time has passed, it does not exonerate your government from its wrongs.
Quote by Ravenwoods
ummm i don't have to **** in a hole?

You may think that modern commodities make your life better, but that doesn't mean an aboriginal feels the same way. Not everyone in the world shares your views.
#38
Quote by Auals
Well, without this turning into a threat about Rudd getting elected, all my friends who could vote voted for Rudd almost PURELY because he was on "Rove", for the record I turned 18 on the 30th of December and so wasn't elegible to vote so me bitching about it is probably irrelevant. But I still think that it was stupid.


I haven't met "all of them" like that guy was saying before, however the one's around here have all dropped out of school, I know 2 only who are still going to the school I went to. It is, I say this without bragging, the most academically and physically challenging of the schools in my area.

The ones around here are good, the younger ones are a bit... anger inclined, however they're mostly ok.

thats funny, after watching him on Rove it basically confirmed to me that Rudd is a douche
#39
Quote by Ravenwoods
Rudd is a moron. All the people who voted for him cost us the best thing that ever happened to Australia.


We are so alike?
Do you know why you have a Mandy Moore avatar? Because I don't...

I would like to know, what percentage of the pro apology side are from the city, or metro areas.

I'm sure you'll hear all the stories from the stupid country yokels about how they're abusive, self destructive, racist, arrogant, little/no respect for the law/society and that they leech of centrelink and government handouts.

Well I'm sorry to inform you, that for 90% of aboriginals, it's true.
There are some really nice people out there, and I feel sorry that they're associated with these people, I really do.

In region I reside (which won't be mentioned) the police are allowed a 'quota'.
This quota determines how many aboriginals can be charged a month.
Once, a 16 year old ransacked a house, and was let off without charge, because the 'unofficial quota' had been reached. If that boy had been book, the police would have been labeled as racist.

Racism is a two way street.

Is it racist of me to steer clear certain dark area's where I know a bunch of aboriginals are hanging out at 2am in the morning? Or am I smart enough to know, that if I go near, I will be bashed to a bleeding pulp.

Yes most Australians are Xenophobes, and any Australian that disagrees, is most likely an unaustralian politically correct snob in denial.
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#40
i don't think he can really apologise. he didn't do anything. and apologising on behalf of our fore-fathers? i dont think so. he's only doing it to boost his popularity, he should wait until the next election to do this.
but i liked howards stance on it. he didn't do it, don't apologise for it.
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