#1
We have just finished studying these two stories in my lit class and we have a test over them monday, and part of the test is that we answer 2/5 discussion questions that we are to do over this weekend.

1. Compare and contrast Creon with Oedipus. Who was the better ruler? Why?
2. Examine the theme of free will versus fate. What statement is Sophocles making in Antigone and Oedipus?
3.Both Creon and Oedipus are tragic heroes. What is/are their tragic flaws? What lessons are we to learn from studying these characters?
4.How is Oedipus Rex a quest for identity? Examine this quest on both the literal and allegorical level.
5. There are several motifs in Oedipus Rex: blindness, disease, infertility, ship/stormy sea. Choose two of these motifs and explain how each contributes to the meaning of the play.

so basically which do you think would be the easiest to write about? and i would GREATLY appreciate if you guys could help me in anyway about answering these

i really hope there is someone in the pit who has read these =(
<Raven> I got so baked last night
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#2
sorry man, just started readin Amigone
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#6
i see, well any key points or tips towards writing them? obviously the tragic flaw in both of them is their pride
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#8
I'd do number 2, with the self-fulfilling prophecy and all that.

But that's just me.
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#9
2: Fate always wins. You have no free will. And no matter how accidental wrongdoings are, you still get punished.

1: I would say Oedipus is the better king. He just ignores a prophet, but doesn't mess with familial ties. Despite him having killed Laius. Creon denies burial rites and ignores Tiresias. He seems like a more wicked ruler. Oedipus is just misguided, but Creon is doing wrong he knows about.
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#10
If Oedipus had pride he wouldn't have sacrificed himself for the good of his country.
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#11
Creon is an absolutist, which could be admirable or not, depending on your views. While Oedipus is a mother****er (lol, pun).

But seriously, Creon could be admired for refusing to break his own laws for family members.

Creon's major flaw is his absolutism.
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#12
yeah if you remember in the beginning of oedipus creon says something about not wanting to be king, because in his current position he has all teh props of being king without the responsibility but then in antigone when he is king he turns very wicked and lets the power go to his head
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#13
imo, 1 and 3 look the easiest, but 2 will be easier to expand your discussion.


and the thread title is misleading. u should've read both oedipus and antigone to answer these right?

i only read antigone haha. and imo it was nice short reading.
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#15
Its so funny because I just read these in my English class and wrote a paper about fate vs free will from the perspective of the story. Haha.
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#16
yeah, would you like to share some of your main points zeh?

EDIT: i'm definitely gonna take that essay word for word... =P
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#17
Apparently I didnt even reference the text... but heres what it was:

Quote by Me, two weeks ago
Fate And Free Will

Are we actually pawns in the game of life, where our moves are not determined by ourselves, or are we in fact the kings of our own fate? This question intrigued me when it was brought up this week. It is doubtful that one can fully support one side of this argument, while fully disproving the other. If it were as simple as that, it would not be an argument in the first place. I believe that free will is the dominant force. To believe in fate is to believe that we are prisoners of our daily lives. It is to believe that we have no form of choice, that everything is predetermined for us. I am not prepared to admit these things.

Believing in fate can potentially be a dangerous thing. It can take away a persons drive to do anything, or to become something. If a person believes in fate, they actually have to believe that ‘what is going to happen, will happen, regardless of what I do to prevent it’. That’s a dangerous mentality for a person to have. It can strip them of their will to go about their daily tasks, like school and work. If fate were a true force in daily lives, it wouldn’t matter what a person did everyday, as what they were to become would already be predetermined.

To have consciousness without the free will to actually use it would indeed be the ultimate tragedy. Consciousness is the mentality that enables us to make our own choices, and to be aware of everything we’re doing. It would be pointless to hold this power if it were useless to us. If everything were predetermined in life, we would have no use for consciousness. We, as humans, are meant to have the will to choose.

The argument between fate and free will is circular logic. The proving factor of fate is actually in the argument against free will. There are many examples of this in life, like trying to prove evolution. No matter how scientifically it can be proven, people will never accept it. The same thing happens when a person tries to deny or prove the existence of God. Examples like these cannot successfully be proven or disprove. One can be looked at as factual by one group of people, and on the contrary it can also be looked at as fiction by another group. Fate is just another of these things born from society to explain and quantify the things, and reasons for the way people act.

While you can try to argue against either fate or free will, you cannot deny the conceptual existence of the other. Fate and free will cannot fully be argued in one page. It is a large discussion that would require a lot of research to successfully argue either way. It is also very interesting. For every factor that seems to prove free will, the inverse also proves the existence of fate. Also, while consciousness may seem to prove that we as humans are meant to have free will, it is just as easily explained as being an accident that just happened. Reluctantly I must leave this paper on an open ended note. Is fate, or is free will the dominant force that drives our lives?


Sparknotes definately helps, too. You can tie most points in to the stuff that Sophocles writes about.
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#18
your school work reminds me of my first semester sophmore year, i did the exact same thing with the exact same books.

www.sparknotes.com

it works wonders
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#19
zeh thats good but there is like no textual support from the stories at all lol but i think i could probably work with that

and waterboy im a sophomore in honors 10th lit
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#20
don't u have to relate the two stories with the essay? cuz that's what my paper's about. mine's due monday, and i need to relate greek tradition and their rationalism and stuff, from Illiad, Antigone, The Greeks, and The Polis.
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#21
yeah EC
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#22
3 is definitely the easiest.

Just blabber on about how they had pride and couldn't admit they were wrong and went against fate. Whatever. Write it yourself.
#23
alright, thanks for the help people
<Raven> I got so baked last night
<Raven> that I WOKE UP high o_o
<Raven> Do you have any idea how euphoric that is?
<Raven> I felt like I was being born.
#24
Quote by cody733
i've read oedipus rex, but...

...do your own homework.


+1

I've read both but ages ago.
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#25
Read 'em both. Do one and five. Trust me.
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