#1
So, my birthday is in ten days and I've convinced my parents to get me a new cab and head. I currently have a Behringer BX1200 (which Behringer claims is 120 watts). My bass is an '85 Geddy Lee Jazz Bass.

I'm pretty much set on a Gallien-Krueger Backline 600 head because there are 2 of them on ebay starting at $100 and if I want a decent cab the head can't cost much more than that. I've read reviews of the Backline 600 on harmony central and it seems like it will be a good choice for my price range. It also has two 1/4" outputs, so if I want two cabs, I can do it. More on that later--I'm thinking way ahead-ish.

Looking at cabs, there are some G-K 4x10 cabs on sale at Musician's Friend, but I don't think I want to haul that much around, so I think I want a 2x10. The most I can get out of my parents for that is probably $250, but I may get money from other relatives so that's a little flexible. I looked at Avatar and Carvin, and Carvin's 2x10 cabs are 4 ohms. The Backline is 4 ohms, so if I read the FAQ correctly, I wouldn't be able to add another cab if I was already using a 4 ohm Carvin like the BR210. The Avatar B210 looks good to me. It's within my price range and comes in an 8-ohm version.

The reason I'm interested in being able to add another cab is because my friend has the G-K Brat Pack and he's put it up for sale. I think in the future I might want to buy it (or some other big speaker) to get more bass than the 2x10 provides.

I have yet to try any of these--I'm planning a trip to GC next weekend.

So, am I thinking along the right lines?
#3
That'll more than likely destroy the amp as that's usually far too much power running through the amp, unless the amp is built to withstand 2 ohms, which GKs are not. As for the cab, I would recommend the Avatar, always. I would never recommend any Backline cabs as they're not thought of too well.
#4
I'm with jazz. The avatar cab would be perfect for you. They're great cabs even for pros, if I didn't love my 8x10 to death I'd have an avatar 4x10/2x12 setup.
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#5
Thanks for the advice. Do you think the G-K head will do the Avatar justice? I don't have a lot of experience with separate heads/cabs.
#6
Um... wasn't Stu Hamm the first to get a Fender signature bass back in 1993?

"In 1993, Fender® introduced its first signature model bass, the Stu Hamm Urge bass, and has since released the Urge II bass."

I don't think it's possible that you have an '85 Geddy Lee signature. Was Geddy Lee even using Jazz basses in '85? Wasn't it 2000 and on?
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#7
No, but I guess it'll do while you're on a budget. Maybe check out higher end GK, Ashdown, Carvin (well, really Carvin's budget stuff in that range), and, urgh, Ampegs. The Backlines aren't that great, but if your HAD to buy a Backline, at least buy the head and not the cabs.
#8
TheFitz raises an interesting point that shakes me to the core. It had briefly crossed my mind that '85 was rather early to give Geddy Lee a signature bass, but I dismissed the thought.

Last time I checked the Fender site for dating for Japanese instruments, it said my serial number was from '85 or '86.

I have checked again. The product dating page is here: http://www.fender.com/support/japanese_instruments.php
What I have found is that I should be looking under the "Crafted in Japan" section, since that's what it says on the back of my bass. My serial number is B + 6 digits, which is not in the "Crafted in Japan" section. It is, however, in the earlier section, as 1985-1986.

Most perplexing.

EDIT: I thought about it for a minute. It's not really that perplexing. If Geddy Lee wasn't playing a Fender in '85, there's no way they gave him a bass then. Period.
Last edited by the_woof at Feb 3, 2008,
#9
I'm gonna do a little research. However, this I KNOW!

Crafted in Japan (CIJ) basses are recent. I have had a 1995 fretless and still do have a 1990 Precision, and they both say MADE in Japan (MIJ). Fender switched over from Made in Japan to Crafted in Japan semi-recently (i.e. for sure since 1995, but I'm tempted to say when the Mexican plant took over from the Japanese one).

EDIT:

From wikipedia:

From 1985 to 1992, Lee used British Wal basses. He switched back to Fender Jazz Basses for the recording of Counterparts in 1993, and has been using them virtually exclusively since then. He used a Fender Jaco Pastorius fretless replica bass for the song "Malignant Narcissism" on 2007's Snakes & Arrows, and a Fender Custom Shop Jazz with an Alder Body and a Flamed Maple top in Transparent Red (as can be seen in the photo on this page) for songs in an alternate tuning during the last several tours. In 1998, Fender released the Geddy Lee Jazz Bass. This "signature" model is a recreation of Lee's favorite bass, a mid-seventies model Fender Jazz that he bought in a pawn shop in Kalamazoo, Michigan.

So there you go.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
Last edited by thefitz at Feb 3, 2008,
#10
Thank you for doing that research. It's unfortunate that I can no longer claim that this bass is that old.
#11
Quote by the_woof
Thank you for doing that research. It's unfortunate that I can no longer claim that this bass is that old.

Oh, thank God. All it took was my falsifying Wikipedia entries and making up facts.

The Big Muff doesn't cut your lows. The Thunderbird doesn't neck dive or have bad fret access. I made that stuff up, too.
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#12
I was actually being serious.

EDIT: I feel the need to explain more, because this e-mail could also be misinterpreted easily. I didn't have much to say in that last one, so it came out very curt. Seriously though, I was being serious. I like this forum, and especially as a new person, I wouldn't blatantly disrespect somebody.

This is probably primed for misinterpretation thanks to that last sentence.
Last edited by the_woof at Feb 3, 2008,
#13
Oh, I was just being a jerk for no particular reason. I do that from time to time.

Now that I read it that way, it did kinda come out funny.

Anyway, yeah, the Japanese Fender camps are not really 'budget' instruments anymore (i.e. they were the Mexican Fenders before there was a Mexican plan, ya dig?) and Fender Japan actually makes it's own models for a strictly Japanese market. I think the Made in Japan stuff was the cheaper stuff, and when that moved to Mexico, they changed it to Crafted in Japan for the US only stuff (while making Japan only stuff along side).
Quote by Cody_Grey102
I was looking at a used Warwick Vampyre LTD 5'er for about $200. I went home to grab my wallet and came back and some jerk with an epic beard got it already..
#14
That all makes sense.

Anyway, getting back to the original topic, I think I'll try out some 2x10s next weekend and unless I'm really taken with something or I hate the sound of a 2x10 for some reason, I'll order the Avatar.

Thanks again for the help.
#15
Why not get a single 15 to start with, you will then have a reasonable starter rig that you can add to later, I would not recomend a 2x10 on it's own, the real idea behind 2x10s is to augment other cabs where you usualy find a 2x10+H sitting on top of another larger cab.
Trying to keep up with the band sound level wise when using a 2x10 is wishfull thinking.
Bearing in mind that obviously I'm looking at it from my angle as a long in the tooth Bassist, but I do get angry when I see some of the amps making claims tio be Bass amps/combos, I don't understand the concept of practice amp, we always rehearse with our road gear; that way we get the sound that we want/get when we're on stage.
G&L L2500
Squier Affinity Jazz Bass 5
Ashdown RPM pre-amp
Ashdown Little Giant 1000
300 watt 15" powered cab
450 watt 15" powered sub bass cab
2x10 + horn
1x15x10 + horn
#16
That also makes sense, and I can see a 2x10 not being able to keep up. One thing is that for gigs and band practices, I will be able to use my friend's 15" cab in addition to the 2x10. I should probably have said that earlier, since that makes a difference.

I have not been a big fan of his 15" cab because it loses some highs and sounds kind of muddy, but that might just be because it's cheap (that is, I might not have that problem with other 15" cabs). At any rate, I like the punch of 10" speakers more than the boom of 15" ones, which makes me want to avoid getting a single 15".

Avatar also makes a 2x12+H, which, according to the FAQ, is the third loudest configuration there is. The FAQ also says they'll have punch. Will that be able to keep up with 2 guitars, drums, and vocals? It's getting on the upper end of the price range, but I can probably still afford it.

The other thing to consider is that I'll probably be able to get the 15" cab from my friend at the end of the summer when he goes to college, so basically we can assume that I have a (admittedly somewhat crappy) 15" cab at least until then.

So the question now is, how can I make the most of what I have without spending too much?
#17
Quote by the_woof
That also makes sense, and I can see a 2x10 not being able to keep up. One thing is that for gigs and band practices, I will be able to use my friend's 15" cab in addition to the 2x10. I should probably have said that earlier, since that makes a difference.

I have not been a big fan of his 15" cab because it loses some highs and sounds kind of muddy, but that might just be because it's cheap (that is, I might not have that problem with other 15" cabs). At any rate, I like the punch of 10" speakers more than the boom of 15" ones, which makes me want to avoid getting a single 15".

Avatar also makes a 2x12+H, which, according to the FAQ, is the third loudest configuration there is. The FAQ also says they'll have punch. Will that be able to keep up with 2 guitars, drums, and vocals? It's getting on the upper end of the price range, but I can probably still afford it.

The other thing to consider is that I'll probably be able to get the 15" cab from my friend at the end of the summer when he goes to college, so basically we can assume that I have a (admittedly somewhat crappy) 15" cab at least until then.
So the question now is, how can I make the most of what I have without spending too much?

Find out the impedance of the 15" cab, and then we'll be able to help you more. That determines whether you should get a 4 or 8 ohm cab. I suggest the 8 ohm anyways, because you can add another one of your own 8 ohm cabs to get the full wattage of the head.
Quote by PatMcRotch
The term grammer nazi is from the camps in the lolocaust made by Adrofl Hitlol...


Quote by Wasted Bassist
Be sure to rape the blue note (augmented 4th). Rape it hard and exploit it like the skank it is.


Founder of the All-Tube Bass Amp Owners Club. PM me to join.
#18
The 15" cab's impedance is 8 ohms. I was planning on getting an 8 ohm regardless since the Backline 600 head's impedance is 4 ohms.
#19
Quote by the_woof
The 15" cab's impedance is 8 ohms. I was planning on getting an 8 ohm regardless since the Backline 600 head's impedance is 4 ohms.

Ok, glad you decided that. I have that head. Personally, it was great at the beginning, but I think mine may have a problem. The EQ does next to nothing now, and it has about 1/3 of the volume it used to. I'd personally stay away from the backline series. Look into other brands in your price range.
Quote by PatMcRotch
The term grammer nazi is from the camps in the lolocaust made by Adrofl Hitlol...


Quote by Wasted Bassist
Be sure to rape the blue note (augmented 4th). Rape it hard and exploit it like the skank it is.


Founder of the All-Tube Bass Amp Owners Club. PM me to join.
#20
I'm starting to think that as much as I want a new cab/head, it might be out of my price range right now. The reason I was looking at the Backline 600 was because there are 2 used ones on eBay right now, both at $100. I was banking on getting a deal on one of them. It's going to be very hard to get $600+ from my parents for all-new gear. And it looks like it's near-impossible to find a cheap head that will last.

EDIT: just for the sake of argument, the Ashdown MAG 300H looks pretty good for a 300-watt head for $300...
#21
Ashdown makes solid stuff. I'd try it though if you can, they're not for everyone.
Quote by PatMcRotch
The term grammer nazi is from the camps in the lolocaust made by Adrofl Hitlol...


Quote by Wasted Bassist
Be sure to rape the blue note (augmented 4th). Rape it hard and exploit it like the skank it is.


Founder of the All-Tube Bass Amp Owners Club. PM me to join.
#22
if i had to choose only one cab, it would probably be a 4x10. i single 15" would be my second choice. a 2x10" would not be an option, as a stand alone cab. check-out some used cabs. like Peavey, Ampeg, or SWR. 2x10's would sound great on a 15" cab. but i would buy the 15" first, like John Swift pointed out.
#23
I talked to my dad about this dilemma, because he's usually helpful in making buying decisions. His suggestion was that I get a 2x12+H from Avatar and use that with my friend's G-K head (which I won't have to buy; I'll just keep the cab in our practice space where his head is anyway). I think that's a good idea because I don't have the money for a head that will last. The 2x12 cab will make my sound better, and if that head lasts me another year, I may be in a completely different situation. I will still have the 2x12 cab (which will presumably last a very long time) that I can use with whatever I get down the line. But the point is, since I don't have the money to get a head that's worth buying, I should get a good cab that can stand on its own and use the head I have.

Is that reasonable?
#24
Quote by the_woof
I talked to my dad about this dilemma, because he's usually helpful in making buying decisions. His suggestion was that I get a 2x12+H from Avatar and use that with my friend's G-K head (which I won't have to buy; I'll just keep the cab in our practice space where his head is anyway). I think that's a good idea because I don't have the money for a head that will last. The 2x12 cab will make my sound better, and if that head lasts me another year, I may be in a completely different situation. I will still have the 2x12 cab (which will presumably last a very long time) that I can use with whatever I get down the line. But the point is, since I don't have the money to get a head that's worth buying, I should get a good cab that can stand on its own and use the head I have.

Is that reasonable?

It seems pretty reasonable. You will have a good cab that will last, and when you will have the money, you will be able to buy a decent head for it. Till then you can practice with the brat pack+1x15+2x12. But I am not really sure if the 125 watts will suffice. I see that you play funk-funk jazz, so it may be enough till you get your new head (it wouldn't be enough if you were playing in a metal or generally heavy band. for sure).
But I see that you will be powering two cabs with 700 watts (paired) handling with a 125 watt head, and this may lead to damage to the cabs due to underpowering. I have heard that the voice coils overheat due to the lack of movement (movement cools them) of the underpowered speakers, and get burnt. But I am not really sure. Please correct me (John swift, others). Hope that I helped in some way.
Dingwall Afterburner I 5 string
Warwick Blue Cab 30 practice amp
Quote by thefitz
But hold on - you're debating on whether or not to buy a bass or keep your house? That's pretty fucking hardcore!
#25
I actually wasn't planning on running the 1x15 with the 2x12. I was planning to run the 2x12 on its own, powered by the G-K head, although I could potentially use my 120W Behringer combo and plug that in to the 1x15, although I'm not sure how much power that actually provides.

I'm not sure how I would split my signal but I do have a Yamaha multi-effect that outputs in stereo.
#26
Well, you can bi-amp then with the yamaha multieffect if it can send signal to both outputs simultaneusly without any flange or chorus (or other effect that can run in stereo) necessarily turned on.
EDIT: Nah, just skip what i just said. It has no reason not to send signal to both outputs
at the same time at all times. I don't know how I thougt of that...
Anyway, best luck with whatever you do.
Dingwall Afterburner I 5 string
Warwick Blue Cab 30 practice amp
Quote by thefitz
But hold on - you're debating on whether or not to buy a bass or keep your house? That's pretty fucking hardcore!
Last edited by pagiatis at Feb 5, 2008,
#27
I believe it can do that. Hopefully the Behringer won't underpower the G-K 15" cab--if the Behringer is actually 120 watts it won't be a problem (the cab is rated for 125 watts), but from what I've heard, it's probably more like 60.

EDIT: The Yamaha does output to both channels without stereo effects being on.
#28
Quote by the_woof
I believe it can do that. Hopefully the Behringer won't underpower the G-K 15" cab--if the Behringer is actually 120 watts it won't be a problem (the cab is rated for 125 watts), but from what I've heard, it's probably more like 60.

If it's rated at 120 behringer (peak) watts, 65-70 RMS is being generous.
Quote by PatMcRotch
The term grammer nazi is from the camps in the lolocaust made by Adrofl Hitlol...


Quote by Wasted Bassist
Be sure to rape the blue note (augmented 4th). Rape it hard and exploit it like the skank it is.


Founder of the All-Tube Bass Amp Owners Club. PM me to join.
#29
Ouch.

I think the 2x12 will probably have as much volume as the 1x15 anyway, and I have been running fine volume-wise with the 1x15--I just don't care for its tone.

Apparently I'm the cab's father. (don't care for its tone? get it? Honestly, that was accidental)