#1
I need a good metal tone. I currently am using a Marshall DSL 100 watt head with an ESP LTD MH-400 boosted using a boss OS-2 on the OD setting. I can get most tones with my set up and can almost reach the Rhodes and Metallica type of distortion. Yet its not quite there yet and i feel my palm mutes are lacking.

I'm wondering if i should get a distortion pedal to run on the clean channel, and if so which pedal , Metal muff? Or if not, is there another solution, im already boosting the Lead 1 channel on my amp(Don't like the Lead 2 channel, it lacks substance in IMO)? I want to reach the gain capabilities of a triple rectifier while keeping a little of that Marshall tube tone. Any help?
#2
well idk if it will sound like a triple rec. but the muff is by far the best dist/metal pedal out there IMO. I just got one and throught a valveking it sounds amazing for metal. (get the one w. the top boost tho)
#3
Quote by I7arkside(Moon)
I need a good metal tone. I currently am using a Marshall DSL 100 watt head with an ESP LTD MH-400 boosted using a boss OS-2 on the OD setting. I can get most tones with my set up and can almost reach the Rhodes and Metallica type of distortion. Yet its not quite there yet and i feel my palm mutes are lacking.

I'm wondering if i should get a distortion pedal to run on the clean channel, and if so which pedal , Metal muff? Or if not, is there another solution, im already boosting the Lead 1 channel on my amp(Don't like the Lead 2 channel, it lacks substance in IMO)? I want to reach the gain capabilities of a triple rectifier while keeping a little of that Marshall tube tone. Any help?


To reach high gain mesa capabilities in that amp you gonna need...
It to be modded
Hotter Tubes
Really good overdrive pedal
Emg's
EQ
and a whole lot of money....

Best bet is get you a really nice distortion pedal like a demonizer or boutique of your liking...
#4
you should get pretty good tone with just straight up DSL and a good overdrive like an OD808 or similar. thats what one of the guitarists from trivium uses and his tone is pretty brutal.
Well Enough Alone
#5
Yeah in IMO i get a great tone with my marshall, but thats why im scared to get a distortion pedal because it might totally cover that tone. I've got around $100 to spend, so right now i'm really thinking of going with the Metal muff. I've also been thinking about the box of metal, guyatone metal monster, and the krank distortion pedal but those are pretty expensive and i'm not sure i want to save up to get those.
#6
Eh, try improving your skill level maybe? Most "metal tones" dont have all that much gain. In fact, IMO, the more gain you use the sloppier and crappier the sound.

Also, scooping the mids is no fun. Like I said, try cleaning up your playing a bit...helped me a ton. Now I dont ever turn my gain up past like 1 oclock or so.
#7
Quote by kurdtkobaign
Eh, try improving your skill level maybe? Most "metal tones" dont have all that much gain. In fact, IMO, the more gain you use the sloppier and crappier the sound.

Also, scooping the mids is no fun. Like I said, try cleaning up your playing a bit...helped me a ton. Now I dont ever turn my gain up past like 1 oclock or so.


I see what you're saying but i don't believe you realize the limitations on my amps gain. It probably because i only use the lead 1 channel instead of the lead 2 channel. Anyway, i don't believe it is the skill level, because playing the metal songs i want to play with the amount of gain i can access sounds good, to me at least, its just i want that extra gain to complete the tone. Yeah and i hate scooping mids, it cuts out a lot of the frequencies needed to cut through the mix.
#8
Im kinda on the same level as you, i was thinking of buying a DSL100. I play everything between screamo to death metal. Any it works graet for the lighter stuff and teh tone is bueatiful espicailly for chords on high gain but for the really beafy chug i thought it was lacking. The DSL is still the best amp tone wise but its jsut not quiet heavy enough. Mind you I played all of them straight throw a ESP LTD Viper/EMGs with no other pedals
Esp Ltd Viper 400
Ibanez RGT6EXFX
Peavey 5150 II
Randall Jag Cab
Mesa Boogie Oversized Cab
Maxon OD808
Boss Pedals
#9
Use the Lead 2 channel instead?
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#10
Turning down the lows a bit can tighten up the lows so that muted chords come out better. I generally recommend noise reduction, but I'm in absolute love with the 'Box of Metal' as it sounds great and has a noise gate built in.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#11
What are your EQ settings?

Quote by kurdtkobaign
Eh, try improving your skill level maybe? Most "metal tones" dont have all that much gain. In fact, IMO, the more gain you use the sloppier and crappier the sound.

Also, scooping the mids is no fun. Like I said, try cleaning up your playing a bit...helped me a ton. Now I dont ever turn my gain up past like 1 oclock or so.

+1
#12
Quote by steven seagull
Use the Lead 2 channel instead?


The lead 2 channel shouldn't even be on the amp, it's such a disgusting channel. As for my EQ, it depends on what i'm covering or what i'm playing. I use about 3 different eq settings for metal.

Presence:-9----------6-------9-------10
Treb:-------6---------10------9--------9
Mid:--------4.5--------3-------6--------7
Bass:-------5.5-------6-------4--------7

Low End boost is on ( a little switch that gives it that low end and takes out hollowness in the tone, really nice thickener without the muddiness)

With lead 1 channel full on distortion which creates a Pink Floyd type gain. Then with the OD boost to almost make it there but still not yet. I just don't wanna barely make it there either, i want a little extra gain just in case or for new things i might play.
Last edited by I7arkside(Moon) at Feb 8, 2008,
#13
Quote by guitardude11
you should get pretty good tone with just straight up DSL and a good overdrive like an OD808 or similar. thats what one of the guitarists from trivium uses and his tone is pretty brutal.



Maxon makes some pretty wicked stuff.
Current Rig:
Splawn Quickrod
Marshall 1960BX
Electrics:
Les Paul with Dirty Fingers
Kramer
Acoustics:
Hohner
Ibanez
Pedals:
Isp Decimator
Cry Baby Wah
MXR MX108 10 Band EQ.
BBE Green Screamer
#14
Quote by I7arkside(Moon)
I need a good metal tone. I currently am using a Marshall DSL 100 watt head with an ESP LTD MH-400 boosted using a boss OS-2 on the OD setting. I can get most tones with my set up and can almost reach the Rhodes and Metallica type of distortion. Yet its not quite there yet and i feel my palm mutes are lacking.

I'm wondering if i should get a distortion pedal to run on the clean channel, and if so which pedal , Metal muff? Or if not, is there another solution, im already boosting the Lead 1 channel on my amp(Don't like the Lead 2 channel, it lacks substance in IMO)? I want to reach the gain capabilities of a triple rectifier while keeping a little of that Marshall tube tone. Any help?



IMHO the best way to achieve amazing metal tone, is take a squire with stock pickups, run in through a fender twin on 10 with the treble all the way up bass all the way down, mids at 10, and run a metal zone with it with the treble dimed and the mids scooped with the gain dimed.
#15
Quote by xyoufailmex
IMHO the best way to achieve amazing metal tone, is take a squire with stock pickups, run in through a fender twin on 10 with the treble all the way up bass all the way down, mids at 10, and run a metal zone with it with the treble dimed and the mids scooped with the gain dimed.


Dear God In Heaven Above....


You can't be serious.
PLEASE TELL ME YOU'RE NOT SERIOUS.

Just envisioning that tone gives me goose-bumps.

EDIT; aaaaaaaand i might sig that.
Obligatory Gear List
Ibanez S2170SE Prestige
Epi LP Std w/ SDs
Morley Bad Horsie
Mesa Stiletto ACE 2x12
EHX Small Clone
Line 6 DL4
ISP Decimator
Guild Acoustic
My Band
My Youtube Channel
Last edited by We Remain at Feb 8, 2008,
#16
the dsl seriously lacks gain, what you could try is raising your pickup heights if you havent done so this gives a lot more gain room
#17
lead channel 2!
Gear
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
Ibanez EX 470 (1991)

Peavey 6505 combo
Vox Valvetronix AD15VT
Danville 1X12 Cab
Kustom 12w tube

Dunlop Crybaby
DOD overdrive(YJM)
Boss Ns-2
PodXt
Dod 250 Overdrive
#18
Quote by xyoufailmex
IMHO the best way to achieve amazing metal tone, is take a squire with stock pickups, run in through a fender twin on 10 with the treble all the way up bass all the way down, mids at 10, and run a metal zone with it with the treble dimed and the mids scooped with the gain dimed.



I can imagine that will sound like cats f*cking!
Current Rig:
Splawn Quickrod
Marshall 1960BX
Electrics:
Les Paul with Dirty Fingers
Kramer
Acoustics:
Hohner
Ibanez
Pedals:
Isp Decimator
Cry Baby Wah
MXR MX108 10 Band EQ.
BBE Green Screamer
#19
Quote by ComradeRose
Im kinda on the same level as you, i was thinking of buying a DSL100. I play everything between screamo to death metal. Any it works graet for the lighter stuff and teh tone is bueatiful espicailly for chords on high gain but for the really beafy chug i thought it was lacking. The DSL is still the best amp tone wise but its jsut not quiet heavy enough. Mind you I played all of them straight throw a ESP LTD Viper/EMGs with no other pedals

Not the best. Ever heard of Hiwatt amps?
Are you looking for a zombie online game?
Join the survivors at Dead Frontier
Coming out March 2008

DON'T GET A MARSHALL MG OR A LINE 6 SPIDER.
Put this in your sig if you don't like the usual threads about these amps.
#20
General settings


gain=7,
presence=5,
Bass--3:00 to almost full never max,
mid=7
high=5.5,
notch=off,
channel volume=5,
master 1
volume=8,
effect mix=10,
deep=7
play around but thats pretty ball parkish

Boost pedal I use Maxon OD-808 but your thing should have similar nobs
drive=7,
level=10,
tone=6


thd hot plate 8-ohm @ -16db with rotary knob set at 50%
#21
I can't raise the pickups any more than i have, they are active and if i raise them anymore, the strings will hit them when i pull up on the whammy.
As for lead 2 mode, that is just not an option. That is one of the reasons they've gotten a bad rep for their distortion.
I've tried those recommended settings as best i can, and played around with it. Still not getting the metal tone i want.

So i guess i'm going to go pick up a metal muff unless you guys have anymore suggestions? I was thinking about trading in my dsl 100 head for a tsl combo, but i'm not sure that's such a good idea. Then again i am using my mg speaker as a cab lol (noobish i know).
#22
As a former Marshall DSL owner......id sell it and buy a 5150.

I couldnt get quite the right metal tone on the DSL no matter what. it did some alternative stuff quite well.
we must become the change we want to see.
#23
Quote by I7arkside(Moon)
I can't raise the pickups any more than i have, they are active and if i raise them anymore, the strings will hit them when i pull up on the whammy.
As for lead 2 mode, that is just not an option. That is one of the reasons they've gotten a bad rep for their distortion.
I've tried those recommended settings as best i can, and played around with it. Still not getting the metal tone i want.

So i guess i'm going to go pick up a metal muff unless you guys have anymore suggestions? I was thinking about trading in my dsl 100 head for a tsl combo, but i'm not sure that's such a good idea. Then again i am using my mg speaker as a cab lol (noobish i know).

EQ Pedal?
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#24
Quote by aznrockerdude
EQ Pedal?


Would that help, i dont really think its my eq that's is the problem(however it could be). I've tried a lot of recommended eq settings and they all come close but i'm pretty sure its the gain thats lacking. I could be wrong though...
#25
Quote by I7arkside(Moon)
Would that help, i dont really think its my eq that's is the problem(however it could be). I've tried a lot of recommended eq settings and they all come close but i'm pretty sure its the gain thats lacking. I could be wrong though...

What exactly is wrong with the Lead 2 channel? Not enough gain? Lows? Harsh?
RIP Jasmine You.

Lieutenant of the 7-string/ERG Legion

Quote by FaygoBro420
Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#26
Quote by aznrockerdude
What exactly is wrong with the Lead 2 channel? Not enough gain? Lows? Harsh?


Lead 2 is lacking in good tone. It's like they took all the life from the amp just for the extra gain. It's little harsh, dark, lifeless, muddy. It's not that bad of a channel is just something i want to leave as a last resort. My youtube video shows me playing though the lead 2 channel. Maybe i'm making a big deal out of it, i'm kinda a tone freak.
#27
Well having a lot of gain can sound sloppy but not having enough gain doesn't sound metal you know? I know how that is thats why I bought a 6505 with a bad monkey overdrive. You can use enough gain and not be a sloppy player. Not having enough just doesn't have that metal feel to it for some styles. Some metal styles dont use as much as others. I dont use tons of gain. But I do use enough to where its kindof saturated but not over done. I keep my gain on my 6505 at 7 and i crank my bad monkey gain up almost half way. Sounds really brutal and of course theres even more gain on my amp if I ever need it but I won't. Without the bad monkey I like it at about 8. However this is on the 6505+. On my original 5150 I keep the gain at about 6 or 6.5 to achieve the same as 8 on my +. I use emg 81 active pickups which sound much much clearer and way more metal than my guitars with passive pickups. I keep the mids at 3 which makes it sound really brutal and heavy but still having enough mids to stay in the mix. The 6505 has a lot of mids so 3 is fine where as some other amps 3 is not enough. I used to crank my mids at like 7 to be heard and i was heard over everyone else but my tone was ****. It sounded twangy instead of heavy. I would not buy a distortion pedal because they always sound like crap to me even the good ones. I might would look at getting a good amp. Or you might want to try a bad monkey. In my experience the bad monkey has more gain than any other overdrive pedal. I can almost bet you'd get the desired tone from it.
#29
Quote by splat102
Not the best. Ever heard of Hiwatt amps?



Hiwatt TUBE amps.

I have a Hiwatt Bulldog 20.

It. Is. Sh*t.

My first amp ever, I was so naive.
#30
Quote by paranormal5150
btw in your you tube video i cant really hear your tone because of the song you are playing over


In the outro solo, you can sort of hear my tone, instead of playing to the exact solo i improvised a little so you can hear it a little better.

Anyway, i would go for a higher gain amp, its just i don't want to lose what i already got. I love the clean and crunch on my amp. And hard rock is my first love, metal's my second. For me i use (not in that video though i used lead 2 there) lead 1 maxed out gain, and boost with my os2 pedal with the level knob all the way up, and all other knobs including drive all the way down. If i add in drive from the pedal it creates noise so i just use a maxed out level on it which still gives it that push in gain.

Maybe if i put some tungsol preamp tubes to replace my Ei tubes? Would it increase the gain enough to have a little extra headroom in gain for playing rhoads or metallica?

I really don't know what to do here and i have gotten a conclusive answer for what i'm aiming for yet. Anyone else have any more suggestions?
#31
what you need is a 10 band EQ to boost the mid frequencies responsible for that crunchy palm muting tone
Quote by The Spoon
Unless you're sure she likes you, telling her you like her has a 110% chance of failing.

But hey, at least you have a 10% chance of absolutely guaranteeing failure.
#33
Okay i got a new question, or theory in for my solution. Would replaceing the 4 El preamp tubes with Tungsols increase the gain much? And if so by how much, say by like 6 will now be a 5 or 6 will now be attainable at 3. If theres a big difference in gain then i might just get a new set of tungsols instead of the metal muff. anyone please?