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#4
most schecters should be higher priced, but i hope they don´t raise the price because i´m going to buy one
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#5
NONE they should ALL be cheaper!
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#7
Schecter makes some nice guitars in that price range, as does Ibanez, but I don't think their prices should be higher.
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#8
umm...wtf lol, if anything guitars should be cheaper (im looking at you Gibson), but if i had to choose a company or guitar which have very nice guitars that they could sell for higher prices i would have to say ESP/LTD, ltd ec-1000 is an amazing guitar and under $900.00 USD. i really dont know what else kind of still baffled by the thread to be honest
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#9
I think TS means what guitars are worth more than their price tag in that range.
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#10
^ thx for clearin that up man, than yes my post still stands that an ec-1000 could be priced for $1000 easily
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#11
Careful... this guy could be working for Schecter...

No... Schecter's should be lowered in price!!!

LOL

I'm guessing you're meaning to ask something along the lines of "What are some inexpensive guitars, that play like or could be comparable to guitars that are much more expensive?

Well, Schecter comes first to mind. I've played a few Greg Bennett guitars that were surprisingly good. If you look carefully, MIM Fenders can feel, play, and in some cases, sound just as good as some of their MIA counterparts. A lot of people swear by Agile guitars.
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#12
Schecter has raised it's prices recently... And most guitars in that price range are priced right IMO.
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#14
Mij...
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I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

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#16
shecters...

but id say in a years time they will be more xpensive...the more they sell the higher the price.
#17
Quote by DieKrupps
shecters...

but id say in a years time they will be more xpensive...the more they sell the higher the price.

why shecters
#18
Quote by Acquiescence
why shecters


I've tried many guitars when making my last few (several? lol) purchases, and I have a few Schecter guitars for the following reasons:

They have a very comfortable feeling neck to me. Not too large, and not to thin.

They're build quality is very high imo. I've only run into a few Schecters with issues, and those look like they were caused by people simply mishandling them as opposed to something that originated in the factory. Not saying it can't happen, but I just haven't run into as many quality issues like I've seen from some other manufacturers.

I like the feel of their "Ultra-Access" set-neck joings. Feel like a neck-through joint, making upper fret access very easy and comfortable.

They use good quality components, and even the licensed parts seem to be built better than most (licensed FR, Duncan Designs, etc.).

Lots of times, you can get original make components on Schecters that you don't see from many other manufacturers that are more expensive.

They look (and sound) HOTT!

Basically, too me, they have the most bang for the buck.
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#19
Whats worth more than their price tag? Used gear!

EDIT: To add, know why Schecters and Ibanez have such name brand stuff on there guitars and nicer looking stuff? They use lower grade woods and materials for looks, and can cram on more name brand parts as they are made in Korea! The day will come when the Koreans and Chinese build a guitar that will take the same abuse as a MIJ Jackson for the same price, but those days are still a long while off. Initial quality is good, but I'd love to see these guitars stand the test of time.
#21
Actually, lower grade woods and materials is just an assumption people immediately make when they realize stuff is not made in the US.

You'd be surprised at how much of that really isn't the case.

The biggest reason why many companies use factories in Korea, China, and Indonesia aren't because of lower cost/quality materials, but the lower labor costs (primarily due to the lower cost of living in those countries). Many times, that alone is enough to keep costs low at the sales floor. Schecter (and Ibanez) still use good quality materials and components in their guitars, but the lower labor costs keep them fairly inexpensive. Granted, they'll still save the utmost best materials for their custom stuff.

Because of labor costs, more and more companies are doing the same thing and moving portions if not entire factories to Asia. They're almost forced to do it in order to keep a competitive edge. Even Eminence built a practical replica of their Kentucky assembly line in China, with even some improvements over the one in Kentucky.

Don't immediately assume that because it's built in Asia, that they use crap bits. Granted, some of the more nefarious companies (the ones building counterfeit Gibson and Ibanez guitars) aren't exactly helping Asia's image.
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#22
Sorry but another vote for Schrecter, My Tempest Extreme just ouzes the quality expected in guitars with a lot higher price tag.
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#23
Quote by Hakael
Actually, lower grade woods and materials is just an assumption people immediately make when they realize stuff is not made in the US.

You'd be surprised at how much of that really isn't the case.

The biggest reason why many companies use factories in Korea, China, and Indonesia aren't because of lower cost/quality materials, but the lower labor costs (primarily due to the lower cost of living in those countries). Many times, that alone is enough to keep costs low at the sales floor. Schecter (and Ibanez) still use good quality materials and components in their guitars, but the lower labor costs keep them fairly inexpensive. Granted, they'll still save the utmost best materials for their custom stuff.

Because of labor costs, more and more companies are doing the same thing and moving portions if not entire factories to Asia. They're almost forced to do it in order to keep a competitive edge. Even Eminence built a practical replica of their Kentucky assembly line in China, with even some improvements over the one in Kentucky.

Don't immediately assume that because it's built in Asia, that they use crap bits. Granted, some of the more nefarious companies (the ones building counterfeit Gibson and Ibanez guitars) aren't exactly helping Asia's image.


Thats part of it. However, you can not tell me they are using high grade stuff. They are using lower grade woods like what you find on comparable Gibsons. The labor costs + material costs dictate both. If you look at it with optimism and expect they are using good stuff, you're sadly mistaken. Asian factories were never known for high grade materials or workmanship. It also means if they cheap on both, it allows for higher profit margins. Maybe in 20 years if some of these Schecters are still around after having been gigged night after night I'll change my mind, but until then, I don't buy into it.
#24
Quote by CJRocker
Thats part of it. However, you can not tell me they are using high grade stuff. They are using lower grade woods like what you find on comparable Gibsons. The labor costs + material costs dictate both. If you look at it with optimism and expect they are using good stuff, you're sadly mistaken. Asian factories were never known for high grade materials or workmanship. It also means if they cheap on both, it allows for higher profit margins. Maybe in 20 years if some of these Schecters are still around after having been gigged night after night I'll change my mind, but until then, I don't buy into it.


Asian factories were not known for high grade materials or workmanship, years ago. They've rapidly caught up though, and making an assumption based on long past performance is a naive thing to do really. If you're going to compare the material quality to Gibson, I'd say that's pretty nice compliment. Considering all Gibsons are made in the US, using (as their guide stated when I took their tour) some of the highest quality materials available. And Schecter's even able to do so while keeping costs significantly lower than Gibson.

I'm not sure what you consider the "good stuff" to be, but it's pretty well known that every manufacturer saves their "best stuff" for their custom work. Does that make their lesser expensive lines are made of crap? Not in the least.

Workmanship wise, Schecter (and others) are easily on par already with the US counterparts. In some cases even surpassing some US companies, for still a lower cost. Who's to blame really? Are US companies getting spoiled and shirking their responsibilities? Is it because companies that use Asian facilities know they need to keep their QC as sharp as possible in order to stay competitive?
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#25
Quote by Hakael
Asian factories were not known for high grade materials or workmanship, years ago. They've rapidly caught up though, and making an assumption based on long past performance is a naive thing to do really. If you're going to compare the material quality to Gibson, I'd say that's pretty nice compliment. Considering all Gibsons are made in the US, using (as their guide stated when I took their tour) some of the highest quality materials available. And Schecter's even able to do so while keeping costs significantly lower than Gibson.

I'm not sure what you consider the "good stuff" to be, but it's pretty well known that every manufacturer saves their "best stuff" for their custom work. Does that make their lesser expensive lines are made of crap? Not in the least.

Workmanship wise, Schecter (and others) are easily on par already with the US counterparts. In some cases even surpassing some US companies, for still a lower cost. Who's to blame really? Are US companies getting spoiled and shirking their responsibilities? Is it because companies that use Asian facilities know they need to keep their QC as sharp as possible in order to stay competitive?

good debate
#26
Let me sum it up like this; do you buy a car for its reliability over 1 year or 10? Also, if you think Korean and even some lower end Japanese guitars are on par with USA and high end Japanese guitars, you haven't played enough high end USA guitars.
#27
Quote by CJRocker
Let me sum it up like this; do you buy a car for its reliability over 1 year or 10? Also, if you think Korean and even some lower end Japanese guitars are on par with USA and high end Japanese guitars, you haven't played enough high end USA guitars.


On the contrary actually, I've played plenty of USA guitars (even just recently when I was shopping around for my newly acquired Fender strat). I'm not ashamed to say that some models I've tried that I know are made overseas (or just not in the US) were definitely on par with USA if not even surpassing a few models.

Using the Fender I recently got as an example, I tired NUMEROUS guitars, non-Fender, Fender MIA, Fender CIJ, and even some Gibsons (mainly because of all this stuff running amok on these forums). I picked the MIM Fender. I thought it was better playing and sounding that even some of the Fender MIAs. Not saying it was the best thing ever. There were better in the MIA section, but considering the difference in price in conjunction with the difference in quality and playability... I didn't think it was worth it really.

I also did the same when I purchased a couple of the Schecters I have now. Before I got my Hellraiser, I tried lots of different makes, brands, and models. The simple reasoning being is because I didn't want to leave a stone unturned. It's a sucky feeling to get something only to realize you could've gotten something better, but didn't because you just overlooked it. I spent a lot of time looking into the guitars I buy, and I also spend a lot of time researching things I'm looking at, both for positive and negative information. I wish I did stuff like this long before when I was younger, as I got burned before. It's not a good feeling. I've learned since then and apply it to a lot of things, not just guitars.

edit: Regarding the car, of course you get a car for reliability and performance. I drive a Subaru WRX. I'll take it over any US make any day.
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#28
On the ntoe of the car, if you get your car for how long its gonna last over time, why not a guitar? Korea just does not have a great track record, when it is slowly improving. In ten years, they will probably be on par with the Japanese, but until I start seeing the guitars they make stand the test of time, I'm not going to back down.

To me, Quality is the most important factor. If it plays and sounds good thats great, but you can tell the quality of it just by looking at it. Plus, you've go to figure how stuff would hold up; the higher nicer the build, the better the guitar will hold. Less need for setups and adjustments, and more just playing, something Korean guitars have not shown they can do.

If I walked into a store, and faced two guitars. One is made in Korea and on a scale of one to ten, I would give it a 9 for playability and sound. the other is a Jap or American guitar that is maybe 8.7 in playability, but seems to be built really well, with better finishes, more refined fretwork and inlays, and just all and all more precision made. I'll take the American or Japanese guitar over the Korean one.

Basically, all the playability in the world doesn't do you any good if the guitar needs adjustment every six months or it won't last. Which judging by what I see on this forum, seems to be the case. Now maybe its because people don't know how to maintain a guitar anymore or have OCD when it comes to playing working on them.

Also, every Japanese guitar (have one American that quite ironically doesn't feel up to snuff to me in one area, but thats a Gibson and a convo for another time) I have owned has never had issues. My Charvel and Jackson are going on a year without touching the truss rod. My old S540 was solid as a rock and while it needed some slight tweaking, its not a doubt in my mind it probably hadn't been setup in awhile.

Mean while, my Indo Squier lost its strap button after a year and a half. Likewise, my Indo Ibanez was made like crap, with a horrible finish, hardware, and construction. My Korean Washburn had a pretty weak finish as well, and had some iffy spots where it could of been routed tighter and put together a bit better. Likewise, my Korean ESP LTD would not stay in tune to save its life, and the overall build quality wasn't as tight as it could of been either.

My Japanese guitars have held up better, are made better, and will last longer than the others I own, and thats why I prefer them vastly. It took Japan almost 30 years to become serious in the field of guitars, and the Koreans still have longer to go before they get there.

On the fact of cars, I do agree the Japanese have the Americans beat in build quality
#29
But I did get a guitar on it's quality, that's why I bought Schecters. My Gryphon is probably what I would call my workhorse or beater, and it still looks, plays, sounds as good as the first day I got it. Haven't needed to adjust it for almost a year now. None of my guitars have needed any major adjustments since I've got them, unless I've done things like drastically change string guages (which is the only time I've had to).

Korea has been the site of one of the biggest guitar manufacturers in the world, they make guitars for many companies that rebrand them under their own name. Why should it take Korea any longer to increase their quality? Korean guitars have already, many times, shown (at least me) that they can be on par with other makers.

The issues you speak of on Asian made guitars I've seen happen with just as much frequency on US made guitars. I've seen Fender MIA pick guards warped, tuners broken, and nuts that were cut... very oddly. Seen a Gibson pickup fall into the guitar, because of a crack under the finish (it was pretty horrid actually). I accept the fact that with so many guitars being made, that some will end up messed up. Do I shun MIA because of it? No, not at all. I never said MIA guitars are terrible. I do think a great deal of them are very overpriced though.

You've had some bad luck with some Asian makes, so you condemn them all? I've had some terrible luck with MIA makes, but I don't condemn them in that fashion. I pay little attention to origins of make and put a very picky eye to the playability, quality of components and materials, and sound. And many times, I've happened to find that Asian manufacturers have in fact caught up (some anyway), and I would dare say are becoming on par with their MIA counterparts.

And one more thing regarding playability...

I'm not gonna pay for something that feels like poop in my hands, especially if it's gonna last forever, like poop.
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#30
Korea is the site of Samick and Cort. They are two very well known for their quality (or lack thereof). Its the biggest factory (or one of) because its cheap, and they make a lot of guitars for cheap. They are thrown down a line and sold. They don't have near the QC of other companies, and thats part of the issue. And I've had bad luck with Asian makes out of pretty much every factory over there. Like I said, I think if you find the Koreans are building guitars on par with the Americans, you don't have the experience to tell them apart. And likewise, I have played a number of American Strats too and not seen nay issues. I've seen a few issues with Gibson though, but USA Strats are among the most consistent I've seen.

EDIT: Wanted to add something; not every USA is a great player. Some of them play and sound bland. But my issue with these mass produced Korean guitars is they ALL do. I think its a side of effect of mass, machine based production to where the guitars have no character. Jackson's Japan shop hand shapes the necks. this does mean every so often one won't by anything above the norm, but then there ar ea lot of good ones and even some spectacular ones.

Also, I feel part of the issue are the stores; they assume the higher end guitars don't need setups as they are inheritably well setup and great players, which is not the case. They are also less likely to send them back as they have more money in it, and its harder to do and to get another one in a reasonable amount of time. Thats why to some degree the picture is a bit skewed.
Last edited by CJRocker at Feb 9, 2008,
#31
You can question my experience all you want (granted, I really haven't been playing very long), but I've taken friends with me, did a lot of learning, and for the last couple months have even gotten into guitar repair and setups, I just don't have my own shop.

What I can't do with years of experience, I make do with learning everything I can about things. I've done lots of talking with retailers, and guitar techs (which is how I got into setups and repair), and many will agree with me.

I'm not saying Asian made guitars never have problems, it's inherent in anything that's mass produced that problems occur. That also includes MIA items. QC may be tighter, so maybe less stuff gets through, but stuff gets through. What does that mean? So maybe you need to be a little more careful with going over an Asian made guitar, but I have (and will argue till the end of days) seen guitars from Korea (or wherever) that were built on par with MIA guitars quality-wise.

I've seen a good number of issues among some American Strats, and not just from one store either. Now I'm not saying all, but even in my short time, I've seen more than I can count on my two hands. Maybe QC took a vacation or something. Loose tuners, cracked nut, warped pick guard, missing screws, cracked wood, and spotty finishes. Now I've seen these on ALL makes of guitars, but to say MIA guitars are exempt when I've seen the results is, well, I don't know what else to say really.


I don't know why I can see 'em and you can't. I know some people that are so into Gibson, they simply can't see it.
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#33
Personally I've played some excellent sounding guitars from overseas. That just becomes a matter of personal opinion and taste though.

On the stores bit about their MIA guitars -

Very few stores actually do setups on their guitars as they receive them in. Some will only do a minor setup on the ones they place on the sales floor. The good ones actually do send problem guitars back (I know if I had a store, I would, the manufacturer should handle issues like that without putting the cost into the store, it's just good business). I have pointed guitars out like this before, and if it wasn't something that I was buying, it was either taken into the backroom, or placed on clearance (or something similar). Many times, especially with the MIAs (I've found out), if the problem is plain sight, it'll never hit the sales floor. I've spoken to many people regarding things like this in casual conversations. They DO send a surprising number of MIA guitars (I'm using MIA, but that doesn't necessarily only mean Fender) back because of problems.

So the customer should in fact, rarely see an MIA with an issue, because it shouldn't hit the sales floor to begin with...

But then why so many issues with overseas guitars? Some answers I got were pretty shocking. "Some expect it." "Oh, then I point them over to my MIA section."

Many of those guitars actually sell faster than the MIA counterparts, so to keep up with stock, they'll let some with problems slide. All to keep customers happy. Because of the reputation that MIA guitars have, even retail stores work harder at it to keep that reputation up.
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#34
i'm getting confused... you guys aren't counting MIJ as being asian, right? o_O
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
Quote by Dave_Mc
i'm getting confused... you guys aren't counting MIJ as being asian, right? o_O


Well, I consider them Asian, but I'm more targeting Korea, Indonesia, and China.

Japan is almost in it's entire own category, with the way they tackle things that they knowingly compete with other countries for.

Just consider them with electronic technology, robotics, etc. They've tackled guitar building in much the same fashion and wouldn't hesitate to say that their quality can easily hit the same marks as US made guitars.
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#36
yeah, that's what i mean. i consider MIJ to be equal or better to USA-made stuff (unless you're counting custom shop stuff, or the small makers like tyler etc., and the japanese have their own small custom shops too which presumably are of similar quality).

Just was kinda strange to see "Asian guitars aren't as good" in one sentence, and then to see the next remarking on how kick-ass japanese guitars were, lol.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#37
For what its worth, I returned my Gibby today and got a Bstock Fender Koa Tele on clearance due to it having a few marks on the back and being discontinued for quite some time. Here is a break down of the construction of it:

Finish: Tele - 8.5, V - 5.5. Granted, the V had nitro lacquer, so its obviously going to wear faster. That said I thought the Tele's application was more even, and felt like more attention was paid to get it looking nice and even.

Construction: Tele - 8, V - 9. The Tele is alright. Some minor things could of been done better, like the skunk stripe not being just perfect, but otherwise it seems alright.

Parts/Fit: Tele - 6.5, V - 10. This is where the Koreans fall off. The neck pickup route on the pickguard was slightly off. Next, some of the screws on the bridge look like they weren't put in evenly, same with the neck bolts, possibly because they were tightened all the way before the others were on. While easy to correct, it could of been done better. The Gibson's was spot on and perfect. Fretwork better on the Gibson due to its tidiness and consistency. The Tele's was nice too, but the ends could of been a bit more consistent, but it does not affect playability.

Wood: Tele - 9, V - 4. the Tele's Koa looks amazing, and the birds eye maple neck looks excellent as well, with more birdseye than most comparable guitars. The gibson was made of 3 pieces of wood which Gibson apparently didn't have much faith in due to them putting an ANCHOR in the lower strap button. Yikes.

Overall: Tele - 8.5, V - 7.6. The V is the better guitar for the most part until you get to the wood That kills it. The Tele's parts could of been put on better, and some of it comes off as a slop job. Overall, I think it's a fine guitar for $350, bu I would not of paid $700 for it. The Americans and Japanese do better in general at putting together and finishing with the guitars, though the Koreans (for good or bad) seem a bit more consistent in terms of one guitar to the next, but this could be due to the fact they are of an assembly line nature than just a shop.
#38
Quote by CJRocker
For what its worth, I returned my Gibby today and got a Bstock Fender Koa Tele on clearance due to it having a few marks on the back and being discontinued for quite some time. Here is a break down of the construction of it:

Finish: Tele - 8.5, V - 5.5. Granted, the V had nitro lacquer, so its obviously going to wear faster. That said I thought the Tele's application was more even, and felt like more attention was paid to get it looking nice and even.

Construction: Tele - 8, V - 9. The Tele is alright. Some minor things could of been done better, like the skunk stripe not being just perfect, but otherwise it seems alright.

Parts/Fit: Tele - 6.5, V - 10. This is where the Koreans fall off. The neck pickup route on the pickguard was slightly off. Next, some of the screws on the bridge look like they weren't put in evenly, same with the neck bolts, possibly because they were tightened all the way before the others were on. While easy to correct, it could of been done better. The Gibson's was spot on and perfect. Fretwork better on the Gibson due to its tidiness and consistency. The Tele's was nice too, but the ends could of been a bit more consistent, but it does not affect playability.

Wood: Tele - 9, V - 4. the Tele's Koa looks amazing, and the birds eye maple neck looks excellent as well, with more birdseye than most comparable guitars. The gibson was made of 3 pieces of wood which Gibson apparently didn't have much faith in due to them putting an ANCHOR in the lower strap button. Yikes.

Overall: Tele - 8.5, V - 7.6. The V is the better guitar for the most part until you get to the wood That kills it. The Tele's parts could of been put on better, and some of it comes off as a slop job. Overall, I think it's a fine guitar for $350, bu I would not of paid $700 for it. The Americans and Japanese do better in general at putting together and finishing with the guitars, though the Koreans (for good or bad) seem a bit more consistent in terms of one guitar to the next, but this could be due to the fact they are of an assembly line nature than just a shop.


you didn't rate sound
#39
Quote by Acquiescence
you didn't rate sound

Because its subjective, as is playability. And the two are obviously going to sound different. I wasn't giving a review per se, just a comparison between a USA and aKorean guitar.
#40
To add to your arguement I have to say that shecters quality is great because they are not run down a line and sold.

Schecter guitar parts are made in korea but they are assembled and set up in america
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