#1
well i have yet to introduce myself
hi my name is jared

ive been playing guitar for about 1 and 1/2 years to about 2 years somewhere around then

ive been reading this guitar book "fretboard logic se" volumes 1 and 2
ive been trying my best to understand each chapter fully and im on chapter 3 so far and i think im doing ok

the first chapter covers the 5 basic chords, C, A, G, E, and D, and from what i understand from those 5 chords, all other chords some how are based off of them,
it states that any of these 5 chords can be played anywhere on the fretboard by simply putting your index on the fret a step down, (or 2 steps depending on the chord)

but i was looking at some tabs earlier and it seems that an F chord is the exact same finger positions as the e chord in the first position

which would make it a e chord played in the f position? but would the chord still be an e chord?

the book is teaching me to name them off as in
"e chord f position" "e chord f sharp" "e chord g" e chord g sharp" and so on
is this correct? or does the chord have a whole new name once it changes position?
because when i ran into this i was stumped and couldnt even bother to finish learning the tab because it made me think i was being taught the wrong thing or am learning it wrong
Last edited by LeftoverJared at Feb 12, 2008,
#2
the first chapter covers the 5 basic chords, C, A, G, E, and D, and from what i understand from those 5 chords, all other chords some how are based off of them,


it's only the shape of those open chords that the chords on a guitar are based on. if you barre first fret and play an E shape, it's going to be an F because it has different notes.
#3
well, like the book said, the f chord is based off of the e chord. and that is because it is essentially just moved up one fret. you don't change any of the left hand finger positions.
you could also move it up to the third fret and that would be a g chord.
the book is right, all other chords are based off of c,a,g,e, and d.
#4
uhg i dont think i explained myself right

according to the book a e chord is an e chord played all along the fretboard just in different positions, once i barre the first fret and make an e shape it is still calling that an e chord just in the f position
if its a a# b c c# d d# e f f# g g# and then back to a

if i play the open e, then barre the chord and move down a fret that becomes a f chord? but what if i play the open d chord then barre it and move 3 frets down, that would be a f chord also then right? if so then what is the difference in naming them when playing??
#5
the edit: Fmaj chord is a triad based off the intervals 1 3 5 of the Fmaj scale

notes beingF A C

the scale consist of the notes

F G A Bb C D E F

don't think of scale as "positions". the Fmaj scale is all over the fret board. they really should be teaching those positions in intervals. instaed of A maj scale and only have the root note marked they should have the R 2 3 4 5 6 7 marked it is less confusing

moving your index finger down is changing the root note of the scale all following notes are different than the last for instance

Cmaj scale
C D E F G A B C

A maj scale
A B C# D E F# G# A

Gmaj scale
G A B C D E F# G

E maj
E F# G# AB C# D# E

D maj
D E F# G A B C# D

these are all of the notes you are playing when changing "position"

all major scales are different and the chords use different notes. the only thing that remains constant are the intervals and that is why you can learna position and be able to move to different scales.
song stuck in my head today


Last edited by lbc_sublime at Feb 12, 2008,
#6
he is talking a bout the root based barre chords

the diference in naming them to clarify. is the notes you are playing.

as i have already given an example of how the scale differ and what makes an F major chord i trust will understand that the notes in Emaj differ from the notes in an f barre chord.
song stuck in my head today


#7
i kind of understand what your getting at but it made me more confused,

i was under the impression that when moving from fret to fret on the freboard there are a sharps or flats (if ur going up or down), but some of those scales and majors dont have sharps or flats

another thing whats the difference between a scale and a major? i have no idea what those are :/

i am a quote noob unquote when it comes to the guitar, but im ready to learn :/
#9
What are Whole Tones and Half Tones?
Code:

Example #1

e|
B|
G|
D|
A|
E|0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12


The open E string (when in standard tuning) creates the note E. For each fret you go up, the notes change by a semi-tone. In Example #1 above the notes (in order) are as follows ('#' is pronounced 'sharp'; 'b' is pronounced 'flat'):


Code:

E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E

OR

E, F, Gb, G, Ab, A, Bb, B, C, Db, D, Eb, E


Code:

This is known as the chromatic scale As you can see, some notes have alternate names:

F# and Gb (2nd fret on the E string)
G# and Ab (4th fret on the E string)
A# and Bb (6th fret on the E string)
C# and Db (9th fret on the E string)
D# and Eb (11th fret on the E string)


The distance from one note to the next (one fret) is called a semi (or half) tone. If you go two frets higher than the previous fret, that is known as a whole tone (see Example #2):


Code:

Example #2

This is a half tone:

e|----|
B|----|
G|----|
D|----|
A|----|
E|2-3-|


This is a whole tone:

e|----|
B|----|
G|----|
D|----|
A|----|
E|2-4-|

Major and Minor Scales
All scales (that will be discussed in this post) contain seven different notes (a total of eight notes) and each ntoe is named after the next consecutive letter (between A and G).

The major scale and minor scale , however, follow slightly different patterns in the construction of them. First, we will look at the major scale.

Code:

Example #3

e|----------------|
B|----------------|
G|----------2-4-5-|
D|----2-3-5-------|
A|3-5-------------|
E|----------------|

That is the C Major scale. It is comprosed of the notes:

C D E F G A B C


As you can see, there are seven different notes (the C is repeating, and therefore is not considered a 'different' note) and they ascend in alphabetical order starting at C.

If you look at the chormatic scale, and rearrange it so that it begins with C instead (the bold notes are in the C Major Scale):


Code:

C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C

OR

C, Db, D, Eb, E, F, Gb, G, Ab, A, Bb, B, C


You can see the following pattern:
Code:

C -> D (whole tone)
D -> E (whole tone)
E -> F (half tone)
F -> G (whole tone)
G -> A (whole tone)
A -> B (whole tone)
B -> C (half tone)


Therefore, the pattern for the major scale is whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half.

If you do follow this pattern starting on any other root, you will get the major scale (of that root).

Practice:
Try creating major scales, such as A Major, D Major, F Major, Bb Major.


Now we will continue with the minor scale.
Code:

Example #4

For the sake of simplicity, I will do the A Minor scale (because it has not #'s or b's):

e|----------------|
B|----------------|
G|------------0-2-|
D|------0-2-3-----|
A|0-2-3-----------|
E|----------------|

That is the A Minor scale. It is comprosed of the notes:

A B C D E F G A


As you can see, there are seven different notes (the A is repeating, and therefore is not considered a 'different' note) and they ascend in alphabetical order starting at A.

If you look at the chormatic scale, and rearrange it so that it begins with A instead (the bold notes are in the A Minor Scale):

Code:

A, A#, B, C, C#, D, D#, E, F, F#, G, G#, A

OR

A, Bb, B, C, Db, D, Eb, E, F, Gb, G, Ab, A

You can see the following pattern:
Code:

A -> B (whole tone)
B -> C (half tone)
C -> D (whole tone)
D -> E (whole tone)
E -> F (half tone)
F -> G (whole tone)
G -> A (whole tone)

Therefore, the pattern for the minor scale is whole, half, whole, whole, half, whole, whole.

If you do follow this pattern starting on any other root, you will get the minor scale (of that root).

Practice:
Try creating minor scales, such as C minor, B minor, E Minor and F# Minor.


Now that you understand both the major and minor scales we can continue and explore intervals and chord construction.


Intervals

At this point, it is important to understand intervals in relation to a key. I will continue to use C Major for the sake of simplicity.


Code:

Example #5

Each note in a scale is numbered in relation to the root.

C Major

C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

This can continue up (how you get 9ths, 13ths, etc.):

C D E F G A B C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15

As you can see, 8 is the same note as 1, 9 is the same note as 2 and so on.

Chords are created from various intervals. When speaking in proper terms we would call each of these the following:

C = perfect prime (perfect root)
D = major second
E = major third
F = perfect fourth
G = perfect fifth
A = major sixth
B = major seventh
C = perfect octave

As you can see, the first, fourth, fifth and octave (eigth) are perfect, while the
second, third, sixth and seventh are major. However, sometimes we
augment (sharpen) or diminish (flatten) various notes in chords:

C = perfect prime (perfect root) OR diminished second
C#/Db = augmented prime (augmented root) OR minor second
D = major second OR diminished third
D#/Eb = augmented second OR minor third
E = major third ORdiminished fourth
F = perfect fourth ORaugmented third
F#/Gb = augmented fourth OR diminished fifth
G = perfect fifth OR diminished sixth
G#/Ab = augmented fifth OR minor sixth
A = major sixth OR diminished seventh
A#/Bb = augmented sixth ORminor seventh
B = major seventh OR diminished octave
C = perfect octave OR diminished ninth

This pattern also continues.

!IMPORTANT!

Perfect notes become 'diminished' when the pitch is dropped one half-tone (ie. F
down to E = diminished fourth) while major notes become 'minor' when dropped one
half-tone (ie. B down to A#/Bb = minor seventh) and are considered 'diminished'
when they are dropped two semtones (ie. B down to A = diminished seventh.

When any note is raised by one semi-tone, it is considered 'augmented' (ie. D up to D# = augmented second).


Chord Construction

Before we continue, it is important that you understand intervals. All chords are made up of intervals and different intervals result in different sounds.

If you understand intervals, it should be very easy to understand chord construction. Different chords (such as major 7th, minor 9th, augmented, sixth) have different formulas.

Code:

Let me start by explaining the forumlas for simple chords.

A major chord is composed of three different notes: the perfect root (1), major third (3) and perfect fifth (5).

A minor chord is composed of three different notes: the perfect root (1), minor third (also written: b3) and perfect fifth (5).


When you see an interval alone (ie. 4), you assume that it is major or perfect (depending on what interval it is). If you see the number written as 'b3' you then call it minor or diminished (depending on whether it would be perfect or major narturally.


Code:

Example #6

Here we will learn more about the formation of basic chords.

Major: 1 3 5
Minor: 1 b3 5
(Dominant) 7th: 1 3 5 b7
Major 7th: 1 3 5 7
Minor 7th: 1 b3 5 b7

If we continue to use the C Major Scale we can match the intervals with the notes (let me refresh your memory):

C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

If we use this information, we can discover that the C Major chord is composed of the notes C, E and G (1, 3 and 5, respectively).

C Major: C E G
C Minor: C Eb G
C (Dominant) 7th: C E G Bb
C Major 7th: C E G B
C Minor 7th: C Eb G Bb


Code:

Any part of a chord name in brackets may not be pronounced (depending on the individual). Any interval in brackets is a note that does not have to be in the chord.

Also, in the "Diminished 7th" chord, the 7 is supposed to be written as bb7 - that is not a typo.

Major: 1 3 5
Minor: 1 b3 5
Suspended 2nd: 1 2 5
Suspended 4th: 1 4 5
Augmented: 1 3 #5
Diminished: 1 b3 b5
5th (also known as a Power Chord): 1 5 (8)
6th: 1 3 (5) 6
(Dominant) 7th: 1 3 (5) b7
Major 7th: 1 3 (5) 7
Minor 7th:1 b3 (5) b7
7 Suspeded 4th (also known as 'Sus') 1 3 4 (5) b7
Diminished 7th: 1 b3 b5 bb7
(Dominant) 9th: 1 3 (5) b7 9
Major 9th: 1 3 (5) 7 9
Minor 9th: 1 b3 (5) b7 9
Add 9: 1 3 (5) 9
6/9: 1 3 (5) 6 9
(Dominant) 11th: 1 3 (5) b7 (9) 11
Major 11th: 1 3 (5) 7 (9) 11
Minor 11th: 1 b3 (5) b7 (9) 11
(Dominant) 13th: 1 3 (5) b7 (9) (11) 13
Major 13th: 1 3 (5) 7 (9) (11) 13
Minor 13th: 1 b3 (5) b7 (9) (11) 13
song stuck in my head today


#10
ok thanks

what stumps me is i dont understand how a e chord played on the first fret is a f chord because if they change through the musical alphabet then they all eventually play through eachother at least twice if you play from the first fret to the last

and that would give the same name for multiple chords but in different positions, i just dont get how to identify them if that is the case
#13
thanks A TON sublime,
i didnt get it at first and i got frustrated and went and reread the first chapter on the fretboard logic book lol.

i came back and just read this again and it makes 100x more sense to me, and i think im starting to understand the answer to my question i asked earlier

i appreciate this in a great amount