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#1
Okay, so this is not another "DEATHCORE SUX LETS BASH EM UP!" thread.

I have listened to Death Metal for a long time now. Three to four years I think, and for those many years, I've listened to Death Metal bands like Deeds of Flesh, CC, Six Feet Under, Dying Fetus, etc. But now, something is turning me off about those bands.

You see, Im in high school, and the metal culture in high school revolves around a lot of shows, but the thing is, I find that straight up non-technical Death Metal bands like those mentioned above give off little or no energy or surges of power.

So, now, a great many "high school" bands or bands made up of young players have incorperated Death Metal with elements of Metalcore...which I scorned for a long long time, but now, I've come to like it.

Of course bands like Job For a Cowboy or Waking the Cadaver can eat ****, theyre not talented at all, and unfortunately, these POS bands get put at the throne of the "deathcore monarchy" and end up being the representation for that genre.

I find that a good many Deathcore or Death Metal bands with core influence have x10 the energy and presence that any straight up death metal band could have. When I saw The Red Chord, Black Dahlia, and CC side by side, I totally noticed the level of power that TBDM and TRC had compared to CC. It was crazy.

Another thing I like about Deathcore bands is that live, they play a lot of small shows as well as big ones, so you can get closer to whats going on. Its not like you have a huge barrier between them and you (i.e. the stage) I find that bands like this make the listening experience much more enjoyable for its not just hearing, its more feeling as well.

Bands that have a tiny bit of Core in them, such as Decapitated, Suffocation, and Into Eternity have an entire different sound and energy than a band like Deeds of Flesh. Partly, I believe its because Im young, and most deathcore bands and such are made up of younger players, guys just out of high school, while Death Metal bands are usually just fat balding guys (its true, dont deny it)

So what Im getting at is that I find that Core in Death Metal isn't a bad thing IMO. I feel it makes the experience of the band much more enjoyable. I have gone to death metal shows, then deathcore shows and have gone "wow that last band was really good. Im really pumped up now. I have a surge of energy". The problem is that there are ****ty Deathcore bands...which are usually the most popular, which leads to people hating deathcore as a whole.

So, anybody else have similar/opposite opinions theyd like to share?
Quote by tarlkea
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Last edited by Teh Forest King at Feb 13, 2008,
#2
Well, I am actually very glad that your post is very thought out and an actual few good paragraphs.

But

Your being too general.

First of all, fat people balding? Sadly there is some of that, but come on. All of it?

But in seriousness, the energy of shows is what seemed to be your main point. I for one will never experience a a show with as much energy and power as Behemoth. They are not even my favorite band but their stage presence is immense! I bring that up because, they are death metal and put on a amazing show. Now when I saw BTM, great technical ability, boring show.

See what I am trying to say? Death metal is just like any other core influenced genre in that it has its great shows and its not so great shows.


nice sig btw
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#3
I agree wholeheartedly.

Check out All Shall Perish, top notch stuff.
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#4
Listen to whatever you want to listen and flip off whoever tells you you're not trve.

Genres should be a guideline, not a form of alienation.
#5
honestly, do you care that much. thats the beauty of music, you can find something that you love in it when everyone else hates it. thank you for just not flaming mindlessly though. its a welcome change.
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#6
While I think your post was very well thought out and presented, and I respect your position, I would have to disagree.

I saw that tour as wll, and to me TRC and TBDM just seemed immature and less talented. When I say immature I don't mean it in an insulting way, but more that they sounded as if they were afraid to commit to striaght-up death metal like CC. They sound less tight and their lyrics and vocals just don't impress me personally.

Each band before CC had there own crowd it seemed, but when the Corpse hit the stage everyone loved it (except some jerk in the front who was an extreme Barne's lover attempting to make trouble for Corpsegrinder).

I do agree that adding Core into DM provides a different experience, but in my case not a bettter one.
what more do you need other than the death growl and a 5 string bass?.....well I guess the rest of the band as well
#7
Quote by VampireGoldfish
Well, I am actually very glad that your post is very thought out and an actual few good paragraphs.

But

Your being too general.

First of all, fat people balding? Sadly there is some of that, but come on. All of it?

But in seriousness, the energy of shows is what seemed to be your main point. I for one will never experience a a show with as much energy and power as Behemoth. They are not even my favorite band but their stage presence is immense! I bring that up because, they are death metal and put on a amazing show. Now when I saw BTM, great technical ability, boring show.

See what I am trying to say? Death metal is just like any other core influenced genre in that it has its great shows and its not so great shows.


nice sig btw


Yeah, I guess I am being general, but as a whole IMO Death Metal has little energy, but of course, how can Behemoth not have amazing energy and power?

I dont really "care that much" but Im just trying to voice my opinion and trying to say why deathcore is appealing to so many people. And youre welcome for not flaming, I like to speak out my mouth, not my ass.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#8
Quote by spelledwrong214
While I think your post was very well thought out and presented, and I respect your position, I would have to disagree.

I saw that tour as wll, and to me TRC and TBDM just seemed immature and less talented. When I say immature I don't mean it in an insulting way, but more that they sounded as if they were afraid to commit to striaght-up death metal like CC. They sound less tight and their lyrics and vocals just don't impress me personally.

Each band before CC had there own crowd it seemed, but when the Corpse hit the stage everyone loved it (except some jerk in the front who was an extreme Barne's lover attempting to make trouble for Corpsegrinder).

I do agree that adding Core into DM provides a different experience, but in my case not a bettter one.


True. CC are very very very good musicians, but I believe that me being younger, I can enjoy a show with "immature" players a bit more, if you understand what I mean? I guess its more easy to relate to a band like the TRC who were started in my high school, around my age.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#9
Good points. I agree that only poppy deathcore get noticed and there are some absolutely awesome deathcore bands. Another thing that you hit was that suffo have a bit of core in them! Ive said this for a while because of their breakdowns, But they did invent br00tal death metal.

And behemoth kick teh **** outta evryhting! L OL
#10
IDK, alot of the death/hardcore mix sounds like crap... but i really REALLY enjoy metalcore/deathcore like as blood runs black and i guess Knights of the Abyss. The melodic death metal influenced stuff is what i like. GOOD POINTS THOUGH GUYS!
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#11
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#13
Quote by rush4life
I'm still fuzzy on what bands would actually be considered "deathcore", anyone help me out?


basically any band that has breakdown like riffs and the vocals vary from growls to screeches.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#15
I went to the Cannibal Corpse show that had TRC and BDM as opening acts. It ruined it. All I saw for those bands were 15yo scene-kid boys and girls hardcore dancing, and the music did nothing for my need of brutality. When Cannibal Corpse came on, there was just so much energy and adrenalin built up in me, and when they played the first song it just gave me that sense of ****in truely brutal music, the scene kids and those 2 dumbass "goth" kids in bondage leather who stood stage front just to make everyone watch them makeout in their Cradle Of Filth shirts and red hair all flocked away when the die-hard old school death metallers came to have their time. **** core, doesn't belong in music thats based on pure brutality.

Death metal should be brutal and heavy with no half-assed bull**** for highschoolers. Thats just my opinion. I don't wanna hear any harmonic emotional melodies when listening to music about violence, just makes it so much pussier and less serious.
#16
Quote by Teh Forest King
True. CC are very very very good musicians, but I believe that me being younger, I can enjoy a show with "immature" players a bit more, if you understand what I mean? I guess its more easy to relate to a band like the TRC who were started in my high school, around my age.


That is a very good point. And as you're younger you don't see them as some hot shots trying to be all br00talz and invading into your scene, as some older Death Metal fans I've spoken to seem to think.

EDIT:
Quote by CanCan
Listen to whatever you want to listen and flip off whoever tells you you're not trve.

Genres should be a guideline, not a form of alienation.



I'm gonna sig this for truth.
Last edited by JilaX^ at Feb 13, 2008,
#17
Quote by RatSkull
I went to the Cannibal Corpse show that had TRC and BDM as opening acts. It ruined it. All I saw for those bands were 15yo scene-kid boys and girls hardcore dancing, and the music did nothing for my need of brutality. When Cannibal Corpse came on, there was just so much energy and adrenalin built up in me, and when they played the first song it just gave me that sense of ****in truely brutal music, the scene kids and those 2 dumbass "goth" kids in bondage leather who stood stage front just to make everyone watch them makeout in their Cradle Of Filth shirts and red hair all flocked away when the die-hard old school death metallers came to have their time. **** core, doesn't belong in music thats based on pure brutality.

Death metal should be brutal and heavy with no half-assed bull**** for highschoolers. Thats just my opinion. I don't wanna hear any harmonic emotional melodies when listening to music about violence, just makes it so much pussier and less serious.

Sounds like local shows here...
I'm going to Divine Heresy tomorrow (featuring a bunch of local bands) and I'm sure there will be plenty of damn scene-kids who I plan to injure...
If you see me in the pit, know that I'm only there because the metal forum is moving slowly.
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#18
Quote by RatSkull
I went to the Cannibal Corpse show that had TRC and BDM as opening acts. It ruined it. All I saw for those bands were 15yo scene-kid boys and girls hardcore dancing, and the music did nothing for my need of brutality. When Cannibal Corpse came on, there was just so much energy and adrenalin built up in me, and when they played the first song it just gave me that sense of ****in truely brutal music, the scene kids and those 2 dumbass "goth" kids in bondage leather who stood stage front just to make everyone watch them makeout in their Cradle Of Filth shirts and red hair all flocked away when the die-hard old school death metallers came to have their time. **** core, doesn't belong in music thats based on pure brutality.

Death metal should be brutal and heavy with no half-assed bull**** for highschoolers. Thats just my opinion. I don't wanna hear any harmonic emotional melodies when listening to music about violence, just makes it so much pussier and less serious.

Suffo are heavier then cannibal and they have core elements. The new wave of brutality comes from fusing elements of genres, wormed are the heaviest band i have ever heard and they take stuff from jazz and make crazy ****. If your really serios then they could be considered core because they have breakdowns, but your a ****ing fag if you think that.
#19
Quote by nebraskan
Sounds like local shows here...
I'm going to Divine Heresy tomorrow (featuring a bunch of local bands) and I'm sure there will be plenty of damn scene-kids who I plan to injure...


No Hannah Montana references. Good job.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#20
Lol, I resisted. I do plan on wearing an HM shirt to it though...
If you see me in the pit, know that I'm only there because the metal forum is moving slowly.
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i think nebarskan is a cool guy, eh wears a nile and doesnt afraid of anything


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#21
Guys don't turn this into a True vs Core thread if you plan to be an idiot about it.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#22
Quote by VampireGoldfish
Guys don't turn this into a True vs Core thread if you plan to be an idiot about it.


I know. If it does im deleting it.
Quote by tarlkea
When I say offensive I mean offensive like dressing up as superman in a wheel chair offensive, not penis suit offensive.
#23
I like Deathcore AND Death Metal
If you see me in the pit, know that I'm only there because the metal forum is moving slowly.
Quote by Sn^ke

i think nebarskan is a cool guy, eh wears a nile and doesnt afraid of anything


Quote by stanleybach
Aren't you proud to wear that Nile? You don't afraid of anything man!
#25
I kinda agree with the lack of energy part, I don't really expect a middle-age musician to run up and down the stage like he's 16. I've been to local and larger venues and always fought my way down to the front row, so getting "close" to the band has never really been an issue for me, unless you're expecting high-fives or something from them after every song, I dunno.

All I gotta say is that alot of the older Death Metal bands(Cannibal Corpse, Nile, Morbid Angel, Vital Remains, Etc.) write near-epic music that sounds and "feels 1000x better than what a deathcore band writes. Once they go up on stage and play that first riff, the room is instantaneously filled with awesomeness and brutality. That's something I've yet to see a deathcore band pull off with their music alone.
#26
People need to realize that death metal ALWAYS contains some elements of -core, since it evolved from thrash metal, which is about 50% hardcore 50% metal.

I agree completely, unless it is tech-death, death usually can get pretty boring if it doesn't have anything special added. A good breakdown a la Cryptopsy (not generic jud jud garbage) is great...when I'm in the mood for death metal, which I'm usually not...

Either way, ignore bands like JFAC, there are plenty of awesome bands out there.
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#27
Ahhh.... I was waiting for something like this to happen. As an avid listener to a lot of Deathcore and Death Metal, I have found the bands I like in both genres and realized they those bands sound a lot a like. One band still gets me over every other one though.........The Faceless anyone??????????????
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#29
Quote by CarbonDeath
Ahhh.... I was waiting for something like this to happen. As an avid listener to a lot of Deathcore and Death Metal, I have found the bands I like in both genres and realized they those bands sound a lot a like. One band still gets me over every other one though.........The Faceless anyone??????????????

very much agreed, such an awesome band
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#31
It was inevitable to mix the brutality of Death Metal with the intensity of hardcore.
Ye complain about Deathcore? Yet view Folk/Jazz/Trad Metal fusion as acceptable "true metal".

Its hypocritical.
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Black/Folk Metal
#32
Quote by 11thHour
It was inevitable to mix the brutality of Death Metal with the intensity of hardcore.
Ye complain about Deathcore? Yet view Folk/Jazz/Trad Metal fusion as acceptable "true metal".

Its hypocritical.

WHAT?! GIVE ME SOME
#33
Quote by CanCan
Genres should be a guideline, not a form of alienation.


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#34
Quote by Anooplol
WHAT?! GIVE ME SOME



Nearly all Technical Metal bands, encorporate Jazz rhythms and time signatures in their songs!
And we have to remember, extreme metal itself grew partially from the Punk movement (also the origin of Hardcore). So we have to stop being picky, on the origins of a bands genre, -core is yet another chapter in the evergrowing history of Metal. Its all the same cause brothers and we should accept all peoples tastes and preferences of metal.

Folk and Trad?
Eluveitie, Cruachan, Skyclad, Tyr, Primordial, Finntroll, Korpiklanni etc. Theres loads.



www.google.ie

god damn.
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#35
Yeah im not a person too into genre but ive only heard a few folk metal bands. I knew about jazz rhythms and stuff but i thought you meant a band with a folk section a jazz drum solo and a breakdown LOL

PS if one does exist please tell me, i need to hear this, if not youve never heard the idea before untill it comes out later this year (when i get a decent microphone)
#36
I don't really care about all that genre ****. As long as it's good and I like it then I don't mind. I don't care what people think.
#37
Yeah, genres don't bother me as far as listening to music goes. Personally when I saw Goat***** with TBDM, The Absence, and The Red Chord, I thoroughly enjoyed the first three, but I just can't get into the Red Chord, I admit they have great energy, but I just don't like them.
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#38
Quote by The Virtuoso
Yeah, genres don't bother me as far as listening to music goes. Personally when I saw Goat***** with TBDM, The Absence, and The Red Chord, I thoroughly enjoyed the first three, but I just can't get into the Red Chord, I admit they have great energy, but I just don't like them.

REALLY?! their the best out of the ones you menioned, probably because of the amount of discords and stuff mixed with the fact that they have the most hardcore influence, and the fact that their songs are the least predictable
#39
Quote by Anooplol
Suffo are heavier then cannibal and they have core elements. The new wave of brutality comes from fusing elements of genres, wormed are the heaviest band i have ever heard and they take stuff from jazz and make crazy ****. If your really serios then they could be considered core because they have breakdowns, but your a ****ing fag if you think that.


By core I don't necessarily mean "core" itself as much I mean this whole new-wave core that attracts scene kids and highschoolers, which is basically a half-assed and whinier/pussier version of the real thing.
#40
Quote by Anooplol
REALLY?! their the best out of the ones you menioned, probably because of the amount of discords and stuff mixed with the fact that they have the most hardcore influence, and the fact that their songs are the least predictable


I don't know, I mean I LOVE tech metal, it's one of my favorites. I suppose I could give them another listen, but from what I heard I didn't really like them.
Quote by Senor Kristian
Viking fact no. 1: Viking helmets did not have horn.
Viking fact no. 2: Vikings tobogganed on their shields into battle.
Viking fact no. 3: Vikings drank mead.
Viking fact no. 4: One of your ancestors are likely to have been raped by a viking.