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#1
When I bought my son his Palomino V16, it was selling for $400 new. The same price that the Fender Blues Jr. was selling for at the time. At that time, I said that I felt the Palomino was a very nice, slightly higher gain alternative to the Blues Jr. I still feel that way.

Since then, there's been a dramatic shift in cost. The Palomino has actually dropped in price to $350, while the Blues Jr. has undergone it's second price increase. It's now selling for $480, which is much closer to the price of a $500 Palomino V32.

Meanwhile, the Hot Rod and Blues Deluxe have jumped from $600 to $700, while the Classic 30 holds steady at $600. In fact, two of my favorite recommendations are now cheaper than the comparable Fenders, the $640 Peavey Delta Blues and the $680 Traynor YCV 40.

I think Fender might be pricing themselves out of the market.
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Quote by jj1565
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#3
They've already been those prices here in euros (500- BJ, 700- HRDX) for at least a year now.


Quote by Dyers
ack...dont go for fender dude go for gibsons


...
#4
Quote by Dyers
ack...dont go for fender dude go for gibsons
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#5
The Deluxe Reverb RI also went up to 950. Somebody mentioned it might due to a rumored 800 dollar Princeton Reverb RI.
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#6
Are Fender putting higher quality parts in ther amps? That could explain the price raise.
Or are they loosing sales and have to up the price in order to keep the same income?

Although it could just be a 'moneymaking' plan, since they are a heavily established company and could do basically what the hell they want without loosing profit.
Last edited by Guitarmike123 at Feb 13, 2008,
#7
Quote by Dyers
ack...dont go for fender dude go for gibsons

That was irrelevant.

Slats, I ended up with my V16 for that very reason. The used market let me get my V16 for about $200, before they dropped the price. Blues Juniors were, at best, going for $400, quickly, on my local CL. The Fender may be slightly more solid and nicer clean, but the Palomino's extra gain and affordability made it an easy choice.

I think it dosn't help that Fender's other current tube amps, (HRD, Blues Delux, DeVille) are all poor on their overdrive channels. There just arn't that many buyers who will chose a new, higher priced DeVille over a used JC-120, if the DeVille can't even offer an overdrive channle worth using.

I think Fenders amp line needs updating. Well, their larger amps. I'm still impressed with the Blues and Pro Juniors, and the Champ 600. I'm also glad they're trying what they're doing with the Super Champ XD.

/rant
#8
Quote by Dyers
ack...dont go for fender dude go for gibsons


Why? Because they do over-priced better?

Which Gibson amp do you recommend?

Quote by igotabcrich32
The Deluxe Reverb RI also went up to 950. Somebody mentioned it might due to a rumored 800 dollar Princeton Reverb RI.


Yeah, prices are up across the board. The Twin and Bassman $1300, Super Reverb is $1350, the Vibrolux is $1100...

Either Fender is overconfident, or it could be a harbinger for higher prices for all amps.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

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Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#9
^Stop complaining!

This price rise already happened one or two years ago in Europe. Maybe they tested the market, and found out that people will still buy the amps, even at the higher prices. Then again, the same has been happening with almost all companies.

Keep in mind that the dollar still is quite low.
#10
I definitely think Fender has seen amp sales decline in recent years as there is tons more competition in the sub-$1000 tube amp market than there ever was before. But you also have to look at the fact that there are certain players who will be buying Fender amps regardless of the cost because they like the sound of a Fender. I think Fender knows this and is trying to keep a consistent bottom line regardless of a reduced market share.
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#11
Or are they loosing sales and have to up the price in order to keep the same income?


No clue, but you don't raise prices when you lose sales. That will decrease sales. Econ 101. You lower the price.

Higher price indicates the supply went down or the demand went up from a very basic sense.
#12
Meh, I'll still carry on loving my BJ
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#13
Quote by capiCrimm
No clue, but you don't raise prices when you lose sales. That will decrease sales. Econ 101. You lower the price.

Higher price indicates the supply went down or the demand went up from a very basic sense.

Specialty product markets don't always obey the seemingly basic laws of economics, especially when there are high degrees of name brand association and bunches of "as yet unestablished" competitors. Raising prices due to reduced sales may actually be the smartest thing Fender can do. If they lowered prices, sales would naturally increase, however the used market would quickly become flooded with already "discount priced" amps (less a hefty percentage for being used) and could potentially kill new amp sales for three or four years following the one good year they had. The amplifier market is heavily influenced by what degree of exclusivity a particular item has and giving the general public the idea that an item is becoming more exclusive can create better long term sales and drive used market prices up (therefore reducing a large competitive source).
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#14
Personally, I think you are all putting way to much thought into this. Prices are going up as everything costs more nowadays. Simple.
#15
I'm an avid fan of fender amps, but I agree with Slats. Competition is tighter than ever in the low-watt tube market, particularly with the Palomino series. Typically, you'd think that competition would bring prices down, not inflate them. I think we'll see a reversal of this (at least stateside) in the next 18 months.

No, Mr. Hankey. We'll not stop complaining. We're Americans. It's what we do. haha. Just think of all the bitching about gas prices stateside....
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#16
Quote by carniferous
No, Mr. Hankey. We'll not stop complaining. We're Americans. It's what we do. haha. Just think of all the bitching about gas prices stateside....

Quite. Bitching is our only significant export. And...corn.
#17
Also, bombs.

We'll leave it at that, though, as i don't think you're allowed to say "military industrial complex" outside of the pit.
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#18
Quote by CJRocker
Personally, I think you are all putting way to much thought into this. Prices are going up as everything costs more nowadays. Simple.


Then why have Palomino prices gone down?
And maybe we can fly away from here, surf on the debris of a broken scene...
#19
Quote by gald
Then why have Palomino prices gone down?

But that happened after they moved production from the US to Korea, which explains that...
#20
Quote by CJRocker
Personally, I think you are all putting way to much thought into this. Prices are going up as everything costs more nowadays. Simple.

Quote by gald
Then why have Palomino prices gone down?

Also consider why the newer Crate V series amps are seemingly better featured than the Palomino's and are even cheaper still. I believe it's obvious that inflation isn't the only force at work here.
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#21
vox's ac30 prices also went up a couple months ago... just in case anyone was interested...

my friend skimped out on an ac30 with alnico blues for $900 and nowadays they're $1800
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#22
I think its hard to compare amps made in mexico with mexican and america parts to oens made in Korea and China with Korean/Chinese parts.
#23
Quote by Kendall
Also consider why the newer Crate V series amps are seemingly better featured than the Palomino's and are even cheaper still. I believe it's obvious that inflation isn't the only force at work here.


Yes, when a new version of an amp come out, or the next line, the older line gets cheaper and phased out. The Hot Rod has been around forever, with no major updates.
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#24
Quote by Reincaster
Yes, when a new version of an amp come out, or the next line, the older line gets cheaper and phased out. The Hot Rod has been around forever, with no major updates.

I'm not sure if you understood correctly. The newer version of the amp is cheaper than the older version, and better featured.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#25
Quote by Kendall
I'm not sure if you understood correctly. The newer version of the amp is cheaper than the older version, and better featured.


Yeah that does seem weird - and stinks of something fishy, too.

I think the problem with Fender is as slats says, they're pricing themselves out of the market. Sure, the economy appears to be crashing around us but Fender drive their prices up further. I can't see how people are going to afford paying more for an amp when they're having to spend more on things like bills, food, etc. It doesn't make business sense to me, but the fat cats at Fender obviously think it does.
#26
Quote by mr_hankey
^Stop complaining!

This price rise already happened one or two years ago in Europe. Maybe they tested the market, and found out that people will still buy the amps, even at the higher prices. Then again, the same has been happening with almost all companies.

Keep in mind that the dollar still is quite low.


GWB ftl!

Don't mean to sound like I'm complaining (in fact, I'm rather happy that the value of my DRRI just went up ), just pointing it out. There doesn't seem to be this kind of price movement with any other company. As noted, the prices on the Palominos keeps moving down.

Quote by CJRocker
I think its hard to compare amps made in mexico with mexican and america parts to oens made in Korea and China with Korean/Chinese parts.


I think it's fair.

Not only that, but Peaveys built in the USA and Traynors built in Canada are holding steady, while Mexican Fenders are on the rise? There's no way I'd buy a new Fender over one of those today. Previously, the only thing Fender had going for it over Traynor was the price.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#27
alright, definitely no fender amps on the "vox vs. any other amp" list anymore

Whodicted



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#28
I'm very glad I got mine when it was only $400. Same price as the palomino, so the choice was just because I liked the Blues Jr. more.

I have heard the palomino's are being replaced, and that is why they are getting so cheap.

Now, I may be able to get what I payed for my blues jr. if I wanted to re-sell it!
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#29
interesting. still a bit cheaper than europe, but getting closer.

at the prices fender stuff goes for in europe, i really don't understand why people buy them...

i was in a local shop a few weeks back, and they had a special deal on the laney lionheart 4x10 20 watter. it was actually cheaper than the fender hot rod deluxe (or at least similar). bear in mind the lionheart is almost-boutique quality. yet the dude in the shop thought i was mad for preferring the laney. I was like "o_O", though it did transpire he only needed cleans, which i grudgingly accepted, if that truly was all you were after, were probably slightly better on the fender. EDIT: i should add that i didn't buy it- it was a killer price, but i don't think those jensens suit the laney. the 5-watter i tried sounded better with the heritage celestion, i think.

that being said i like warm cleans anyway.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

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Et tu, br00tz?
#30
Quote by hendriko
alright, definitely no fender amps on the "vox vs. any other amp" list anymore


Fool! Buy used!
#31
Damn oil prices, this calls for some more war! Who else can the west bring democracy to?

Seriously though, does that mean guitar prices may go up too?
#32
good thing i got my Blues JR when it was 400.
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#33
glad my Bjr keeps going up in value.

i think prices just go up.
fender guitars are still pretty economical. but their amps, can stand to come down a little. these little tube amps popping up all over the place, arent helping their line, im sure.

with the said, i've never had a problem with my amp. i like knowing my amp will work when i need it to. so for me it was the right choice.

in looking for a good 30W, im not interested in anything fender tho.
Jenneh

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Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#34
Quote by Don_Humpador
Yeah that does seem weird - and stinks of something fishy, too.

I think the problem with Fender is as slats says, they're pricing themselves out of the market. Sure, the economy appears to be crashing around us but Fender drive their prices up further. I can't see how people are going to afford paying more for an amp when they're having to spend more on things like bills, food, etc. It doesn't make business sense to me, but the fat cats at Fender obviously think it does.


Maybe they're learning from the Gibson model; raised prices = raised demand.
#35
Quote by mr_hankey
Maybe they're learning from the Gibson model; raised prices = raised demand.



We're FendeR, ByGod! We dont DO price drops. bow down please.
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#36
Quote by mr_hankey
Maybe they're learning from the Gibson model; raised prices = raised demand.


Yeah. Or the Societe Generale model.
#37
Quote by Don_Humpador
Yeah. Or the Societe Generale model.


hahahahaha! Jerome Kerviel FTW!

though if they were following that model, they'd probably raise the prices of the frontman range, meanwhile lowering their hand-wired range to similar prices.

you're after a new amp, jenny?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#38
hey dave, yeah, looking since christmas. something a little higher gain, 30 Watts or so.

been looking in used amp ads had a couple i almost pulled the trigger on, just not yet.

:/
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


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#39
how much higher gain? (do you want to take this to the regulars' spam thread?)
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
yes, let's take this to another spam area...
Jenneh

Quote by TNfootballfan62
Jenny needs to sow her wild oats with random Gibsons and Taylors she picks up in bars before she settles down with a PRS.


Set up Questions? ...Q & A Thread

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